Clear Bra and Wax
#16
03-11-2006, 01:12 PM
I'm not going to type this whole speil again - I'll copy and paste from another forum. Cliff notes: The dealer applied sealants/teflon protection are total marketing hype. They do not last forever, or even 5 years, or even 1 year. They do not mean you do not have to wax your car. As a matter of fact teflon needs to be applied at something like 600 degrees, which is a sure indication that the words "teflon" in association with car detailing, is nothing but marketing.
Alright here goes. You can take everything I say with a grain of salt, I am just giving you my experience as a detailer. I see XZILON on a lot of cars that I detail so here is the breakdown.
1) It's a high durabilty sealant that will normally last 6 months to a year. It *does* bond to the paint in the same way any polymer based sealant will bond to paint (Zaino, UPP, Poorboys sealants, Megs NXT etc... all the same concept. Polymers bond to the surface of the paint to protect it). The bonding process has nothing to do with the kind of paint. Paint sealants will bond to almost any smooth surface - this isn't a new concept. The only difference between the consumer ones and XZILON is that they are higher luster/less durabilty so they need to be re-applied more often.
2) You need to have it re-applied. Their 5-year gaurantee is *NOT* 5 years of durabilty, it's 5 years of free re-application at the dealership. Tell them you want it re-applied every time you show up. In my experience dealerships never have to re-apply it, so you might meet some resistance ("Oh it doesnt need to be" or "Oh we dont do that") Yes it does, and yes they do.
3) Most folks don't know that, so they never have it re-applied which is why XZILON is such a huge money maker for dealerships. $500-$800 for a 2 ounce application of a sealant you can buy online for $15 a bottle. If the customer never has it re-applied that's something like a 5000% profit for them.
4) It protects the same as any locally available sealant. Protects from bird poop, rain, acid rain, the sun, sap, etc...
5) Unfortunately if you read the fine print the warranty is void if you wax or polish your car, which is a bummer. This essentially means once purchased you're stuck with their product. If you wax your car or have it polished they'll tell you the warranty is void.
This is where I move away from facts and get into opinion. It's my opinion that this stuff is a total rip off. Even if you have it re-applied every 6 months you will never see $500 of worth out of it. You can go to pep boys and pick up a bottle of NXT for $16.99 and apply it yourself in 15 minutes every 4 months for 5 years (15 applications) on one bottle. That's $16.99 out of pocket and ~6 hours of work over 5 years to save anywhere from $480-$680. Alternatively you could pay a detailer to clay/polish/seal your car every half-year for the same amount, and that way you essentially get a free clay/polish every 6 months which will keep the car looking great. XZILON will not protect against scratches, swirls, etc.
Don't feel bad - thousands of people opt for this stuff and really it isn't a *bad* thing, it's just a grossly overpriced thing.
Also, if you think I am making any of this up or am crazy, shoot on over to autopia (www.autopia.org) and do a search for Xzilon. You will find lots of threads about it with the same information in my post.
If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. Bottom line is that the dealer applied sealants/environmental packages are not a bad thing, but they are essentially the same product (or an industrial version thereof) that you can be for 1/20th the price at a Pep boys.
Edit - regarding clear bras, they are a great investment. Regarding clear bras and wax - you can use any wax on a clear bra. The only hangup is to wax away from the seam rather than into it so you don't get a white residue buildup. Otherwise treat it exactly like you would normal paint.
Alright here goes. You can take everything I say with a grain of salt, I am just giving you my experience as a detailer. I see XZILON on a lot of cars that I detail so here is the breakdown.
1) It's a high durabilty sealant that will normally last 6 months to a year. It *does* bond to the paint in the same way any polymer based sealant will bond to paint (Zaino, UPP, Poorboys sealants, Megs NXT etc... all the same concept. Polymers bond to the surface of the paint to protect it). The bonding process has nothing to do with the kind of paint. Paint sealants will bond to almost any smooth surface - this isn't a new concept. The only difference between the consumer ones and XZILON is that they are higher luster/less durabilty so they need to be re-applied more often.
2) You need to have it re-applied. Their 5-year gaurantee is *NOT* 5 years of durabilty, it's 5 years of free re-application at the dealership. Tell them you want it re-applied every time you show up. In my experience dealerships never have to re-apply it, so you might meet some resistance ("Oh it doesnt need to be" or "Oh we dont do that") Yes it does, and yes they do.
3) Most folks don't know that, so they never have it re-applied which is why XZILON is such a huge money maker for dealerships. $500-$800 for a 2 ounce application of a sealant you can buy online for $15 a bottle. If the customer never has it re-applied that's something like a 5000% profit for them.
4) It protects the same as any locally available sealant. Protects from bird poop, rain, acid rain, the sun, sap, etc...
5) Unfortunately if you read the fine print the warranty is void if you wax or polish your car, which is a bummer. This essentially means once purchased you're stuck with their product. If you wax your car or have it polished they'll tell you the warranty is void.
This is where I move away from facts and get into opinion. It's my opinion that this stuff is a total rip off. Even if you have it re-applied every 6 months you will never see $500 of worth out of it. You can go to pep boys and pick up a bottle of NXT for $16.99 and apply it yourself in 15 minutes every 4 months for 5 years (15 applications) on one bottle. That's $16.99 out of pocket and ~6 hours of work over 5 years to save anywhere from $480-$680. Alternatively you could pay a detailer to clay/polish/seal your car every half-year for the same amount, and that way you essentially get a free clay/polish every 6 months which will keep the car looking great. XZILON will not protect against scratches, swirls, etc.
Don't feel bad - thousands of people opt for this stuff and really it isn't a *bad* thing, it's just a grossly overpriced thing.
Also, if you think I am making any of this up or am crazy, shoot on over to autopia (www.autopia.org) and do a search for Xzilon. You will find lots of threads about it with the same information in my post.
If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. Bottom line is that the dealer applied sealants/environmental packages are not a bad thing, but they are essentially the same product (or an industrial version thereof) that you can be for 1/20th the price at a Pep boys.
Edit - regarding clear bras, they are a great investment. Regarding clear bras and wax - you can use any wax on a clear bra. The only hangup is to wax away from the seam rather than into it so you don't get a white residue buildup. Otherwise treat it exactly like you would normal paint.
Last edited by Picus; 03-11-2006 at 01:22 PM.
#17
03-11-2006, 01:18 PM
Originally Posted by ABQ_G35
That is the only thing I have had a prob with, wax on the edge. By spray on, do you mean you don't wipe it off, or is it like a detail spray?
#18
03-11-2006, 02:03 PM
The 3M is way better than any wax-type product because it has better UV protection and it also blocks rock chips. But trust me you can work with the installers to get a better price. I was able to talk my installer down almost 40% by the time he did the install. Offer them less in cash and most of the time you will get a discount. It works with just about everyone, I have not paid asking price for just about everything on my car.
#19
03-12-2006, 03:52 AM
Originally Posted by ttrank
The 3M is way better than any wax-type product because it has better UV protection and it also blocks rock chips. But trust me you can work with the installers to get a better price. I was able to talk my installer down almost 40% by the time he did the install. Offer them less in cash and most of the time you will get a discount. It works with just about everyone, I have not paid asking price for just about everything on my car.
#20
03-12-2006, 03:55 AM
Originally Posted by gDriven
So did you get the clear bra or the permashield crap. If they said they put some kind of polimere on it, than that's probably what it is. Don't trust them that you will never have to wax it. If you have a clear bra, I've been told that waxing it is part of the maintenance involved.
695 seems like a decent price. But make sure you find a qualified installer. The clear bra is only as good as the installer that installs it, so make sure you get your info about who the dealership uses.
I got mine from a local installer, but I wish I had gotten it from Premier. They are the most acknowledged by the exotic guys. Check out their site for some serious eye candy.
www.premiermobilegroup.com
695 seems like a decent price. But make sure you find a qualified installer. The clear bra is only as good as the installer that installs it, so make sure you get your info about who the dealership uses.
I got mine from a local installer, but I wish I had gotten it from Premier. They are the most acknowledged by the exotic guys. Check out their site for some serious eye candy.
www.premiermobilegroup.com
#21
03-12-2006, 09:50 AM
#22
03-12-2006, 11:14 AM
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Originally Posted by ABQ_G35
That is the only thing I have had a prob with, wax on the edge. By spray on, do you mean you don't wipe it off, or is it like a detail spray?
Other times I use Wax as you dry which you actually spray on the car after washing but before drying it. You are actually waxing it as you dry the car. It works nicely, and is no more effort than just drying the car.
Neither product leaves a residue behind.
#23
03-12-2006, 11:16 AM
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Originally Posted by G??
Well i got it put on friday and its a 3m clear bra looks like its on the hood and mirrors i cant tell if it on the lights. It appears like it was done well. thanks for all the help guys
#24
03-12-2006, 12:02 PM
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DON'T BUY add ons from the car dealer...EVER!!
They are into it to make money.
They add on sh1te to a car and jack up the price to make more money.
EVERYTHING the dealer puts on a car, YOU can have put on the car
and not pay for the middleman (dealer).
Plus you don't have to listen to the salesguy lame-**** sales pitch
about the products that's always BS anyway.
Clearbra's are great but talk to the company that MAKES the clearbra
as to how to take care of it.
You can wash and wax the clearbra...just don't use any degreaser or
harsh chemicals/cleaners on it. Use mild soap to wash it.
They are into it to make money.
They add on sh1te to a car and jack up the price to make more money.
EVERYTHING the dealer puts on a car, YOU can have put on the car
and not pay for the middleman (dealer).
Plus you don't have to listen to the salesguy lame-**** sales pitch
about the products that's always BS anyway.
Clearbra's are great but talk to the company that MAKES the clearbra
as to how to take care of it.
You can wash and wax the clearbra...just don't use any degreaser or
harsh chemicals/cleaners on it. Use mild soap to wash it.
#25
03-12-2006, 12:56 PM
Originally Posted by gDriven
I guess your installer isn't that busy or they probably aren't that exclusive. With the really good high end installers, they are usually booked weeks in advanced. Therefore they won't even bother with the price haggling. But you get what you pay for.
Actually I had to wait two weeks to get it done because he was booked and the only reason I got in that fast is that he had someone back out. There is just such a high mark-up on it they will work with you if you try. And yes I did get what I paid for, some people just pay more...
#26
03-12-2006, 08:51 PM
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Originally Posted by picus112
I'm not going to type this whole speil again - I'll copy and paste from another forum. Cliff notes: The dealer applied sealants/teflon protection are total marketing hype. They do not last forever, or even 5 years, or even 1 year. They do not mean you do not have to wax your car. As a matter of fact teflon needs to be applied at something like 600 degrees, which is a sure indication that the words "teflon" in association with car detailing, is nothing but marketing.
Alright here goes. You can take everything I say with a grain of salt, I am just giving you my experience as a detailer. I see XZILON on a lot of cars that I detail so here is the breakdown.
1) It's a high durabilty sealant that will normally last 6 months to a year. It *does* bond to the paint in the same way any polymer based sealant will bond to paint (Zaino, UPP, Poorboys sealants, Megs NXT etc... all the same concept. Polymers bond to the surface of the paint to protect it). The bonding process has nothing to do with the kind of paint. Paint sealants will bond to almost any smooth surface - this isn't a new concept. The only difference between the consumer ones and XZILON is that they are higher luster/less durabilty so they need to be re-applied more often.
2) You need to have it re-applied. Their 5-year gaurantee is *NOT* 5 years of durabilty, it's 5 years of free re-application at the dealership. Tell them you want it re-applied every time you show up. In my experience dealerships never have to re-apply it, so you might meet some resistance ("Oh it doesnt need to be" or "Oh we dont do that") Yes it does, and yes they do.
3) Most folks don't know that, so they never have it re-applied which is why XZILON is such a huge money maker for dealerships. $500-$800 for a 2 ounce application of a sealant you can buy online for $15 a bottle. If the customer never has it re-applied that's something like a 5000% profit for them.
4) It protects the same as any locally available sealant. Protects from bird poop, rain, acid rain, the sun, sap, etc...
5) Unfortunately if you read the fine print the warranty is void if you wax or polish your car, which is a bummer. This essentially means once purchased you're stuck with their product. If you wax your car or have it polished they'll tell you the warranty is void.
This is where I move away from facts and get into opinion. It's my opinion that this stuff is a total rip off. Even if you have it re-applied every 6 months you will never see $500 of worth out of it. You can go to pep boys and pick up a bottle of NXT for $16.99 and apply it yourself in 15 minutes every 4 months for 5 years (15 applications) on one bottle. That's $16.99 out of pocket and ~6 hours of work over 5 years to save anywhere from $480-$680. Alternatively you could pay a detailer to clay/polish/seal your car every half-year for the same amount, and that way you essentially get a free clay/polish every 6 months which will keep the car looking great. XZILON will not protect against scratches, swirls, etc.
Don't feel bad - thousands of people opt for this stuff and really it isn't a *bad* thing, it's just a grossly overpriced thing.
Also, if you think I am making any of this up or am crazy, shoot on over to autopia (www.autopia.org) and do a search for Xzilon. You will find lots of threads about it with the same information in my post.
If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. Bottom line is that the dealer applied sealants/environmental packages are not a bad thing, but they are essentially the same product (or an industrial version thereof) that you can be for 1/20th the price at a Pep boys.
Edit - regarding clear bras, they are a great investment. Regarding clear bras and wax - you can use any wax on a clear bra. The only hangup is to wax away from the seam rather than into it so you don't get a white residue buildup. Otherwise treat it exactly like you would normal paint.
Alright here goes. You can take everything I say with a grain of salt, I am just giving you my experience as a detailer. I see XZILON on a lot of cars that I detail so here is the breakdown.
1) It's a high durabilty sealant that will normally last 6 months to a year. It *does* bond to the paint in the same way any polymer based sealant will bond to paint (Zaino, UPP, Poorboys sealants, Megs NXT etc... all the same concept. Polymers bond to the surface of the paint to protect it). The bonding process has nothing to do with the kind of paint. Paint sealants will bond to almost any smooth surface - this isn't a new concept. The only difference between the consumer ones and XZILON is that they are higher luster/less durabilty so they need to be re-applied more often.
2) You need to have it re-applied. Their 5-year gaurantee is *NOT* 5 years of durabilty, it's 5 years of free re-application at the dealership. Tell them you want it re-applied every time you show up. In my experience dealerships never have to re-apply it, so you might meet some resistance ("Oh it doesnt need to be" or "Oh we dont do that") Yes it does, and yes they do.
3) Most folks don't know that, so they never have it re-applied which is why XZILON is such a huge money maker for dealerships. $500-$800 for a 2 ounce application of a sealant you can buy online for $15 a bottle. If the customer never has it re-applied that's something like a 5000% profit for them.
4) It protects the same as any locally available sealant. Protects from bird poop, rain, acid rain, the sun, sap, etc...
5) Unfortunately if you read the fine print the warranty is void if you wax or polish your car, which is a bummer. This essentially means once purchased you're stuck with their product. If you wax your car or have it polished they'll tell you the warranty is void.
This is where I move away from facts and get into opinion. It's my opinion that this stuff is a total rip off. Even if you have it re-applied every 6 months you will never see $500 of worth out of it. You can go to pep boys and pick up a bottle of NXT for $16.99 and apply it yourself in 15 minutes every 4 months for 5 years (15 applications) on one bottle. That's $16.99 out of pocket and ~6 hours of work over 5 years to save anywhere from $480-$680. Alternatively you could pay a detailer to clay/polish/seal your car every half-year for the same amount, and that way you essentially get a free clay/polish every 6 months which will keep the car looking great. XZILON will not protect against scratches, swirls, etc.
Don't feel bad - thousands of people opt for this stuff and really it isn't a *bad* thing, it's just a grossly overpriced thing.
Also, if you think I am making any of this up or am crazy, shoot on over to autopia (www.autopia.org) and do a search for Xzilon. You will find lots of threads about it with the same information in my post.
If you have any questions I'll be happy to answer them to the best of my ability. Bottom line is that the dealer applied sealants/environmental packages are not a bad thing, but they are essentially the same product (or an industrial version thereof) that you can be for 1/20th the price at a Pep boys.
Edit - regarding clear bras, they are a great investment. Regarding clear bras and wax - you can use any wax on a clear bra. The only hangup is to wax away from the seam rather than into it so you don't get a white residue buildup. Otherwise treat it exactly like you would normal paint.
Take this advice guys. He's dead on correct. HUGE waste of $$$$
#27
03-13-2006, 11:13 AM
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My installer just got a roll of 3M delivered while applying clearbra to my G.
He told me the 100' roll cost him $1k, so that's $10/foot. It is about 24" wide.
So, if you consider the cost of materials, plus my installer took 3 hours to do my car, I think it is fair to pay around $500-$600.
Installers must also pay for each time they make a cut on the computer to the company that supplies the patterns.
He told me the 100' roll cost him $1k, so that's $10/foot. It is about 24" wide.
So, if you consider the cost of materials, plus my installer took 3 hours to do my car, I think it is fair to pay around $500-$600.
Installers must also pay for each time they make a cut on the computer to the company that supplies the patterns.
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