Dave, I agree with you. Car mag figures don't mean sh_t.

You have to take them with a grain of salt.

03" G35 Coupe
6MT, Desert Platinum, 19" SSR GT wheels<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by MyG35Coupe on 09/03/03 10:48 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

yes considering the mags use very accurate timing methods and their drivers are quite good (usually)

Back in Black

 

Hey guys, I plan on buying a G in afew months but for the time being- I drive a Pontiac GTP with a few mods. A simple pulley change, 9" K&N cone, Borla exhaust got me into the 13s, easily. All these mods cost me a total of $600, which is not bad. The only problem I had was getting used to the torque in a FWD vehicle. I had to replace my front Eagle RSAs because of the shitty grip.

As for top end, I could definately feel the difference with the 9" Cone whereas stock- it sucked.

The new Impala SS will be using the same engine I currently have whereas the new GTP has a revised blower and some other goodies.

I personally like my car but the style is OUTDATED so I can't wait to get my hands on a SEXY "G".

 

12 second FWD ? Good luck getting it to hook up. Most of the time you will be spinning your wheels. My SHO mechanic has a supercharger on his car. He is putting out 409 FWHP. His best time was in the 13's

We used to go round and round between the SHO list and the GTP list. The GM3800 motor is a piece of junk. It barely makes 200 hp normally aspirated form and a dismal 240 with a huffer on it. While yes you can change the pulley and add an intercooler to gain HP, you run the risk of thrashing an already overworked motor.

Jim
'03 Sedan
Brilliant Silver/Graphite
6MT/ Premium package
Sport tuned suspension
Aerodynamic Body Kit
Navigation and Satellite Radio

 

Wow shodog, sounds like you've got some hostility toward GM. Do some reserach and you'll see that the 3800 is one of the best motors around. I didn't say THE best but one of them.

As far as your friends SHO, it's not that difficult to run 13s in a FWD. It takes a little practice and some good tires.

I belong to several Grand Prix clubs and we go to the track a few times a year and there are several of our members running 12s.

There are a few GPs running 11s and one that is running 10s. This ONE is running a turbo instead of a supercharger.

If you have a hard time believing this, I'll be GLAD to e-mail you PLENTY of clips from the drag strip. Or better yet, visit www.clubgp.com

 

the 3800 is also one of the most primative engines arround

Back in Black

 

Not to mention there's a motor mount in the middle of the accessory drive belt. Having the belt replaced requires removing the mount, and it's pretty costly in terms of labor to have it changed at a dealership. Fun!

On the plus side, it runs on 87, and gets better gas mileage than our VQ35 does.

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

The 3800 is an old motor, but by no means is it primative. There is a reason that it is still used today. It is a hardy motor that can withstand much torture. And whomever said that it can barely handle modification is ignorant as hell. I have tuned and worked with MANY GTP's that push well more than 240 hp 285 tq. Not to mention I have had the liberty of watching the unfolding of two 11 second GTP's that are both streetable and maintain gas mileage.
While I agree that it is rather humorous that a supercharged 3.8 puts out less HP than the 3.5 naturally aspirated, it does put out much more torque. (The 285 figure is considered underrated via dyno testing)

It's just funny how some people jump on a bandwagon of [censored] talking without having any knowledge.

2002 Infiniti I35
-sports package
-winter package
-sun package
-rim package
*H&R lowering springs

 

Come to think of it, a friend of mine has a Buick Park Avenue. Big car. It has the non-supercharged 3800 in it. Moves pretty well when it needs to.

I imagine the only reason it's not in the Cadillac CTS is because it's designed to be transverse mounted on a FWD platform.

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

The 3800 maybe an old motor but u can say the same thing about the Vq35. It first started out as the Vq3.0 in 1993 and slowly evolved to the Vq3.5 we see now. Also since the introduction of the Vq30 it has one wards 10 best award every year for 10 years in a row.

 

Ignorance is bliss. Having a HUGE amount of torque available right off idle means you barely have to roll into the throttle come off the line hard. With all the torque, you will not bog which is a huge problem with most FWD cars. Plenty of modded GTPs pull low 2.0 and high 1.9 60 foots on street tires which is better than I can say for the RWD FM-chassis. Some you really need to do some research about the competition before you start badmouthing it.

As for the 3800 being "primative", sure but it's bulletproof and is pretty efficent.

FYI, overhead camshafts motor were developed BEFORE the pushrod single cam setup in the 3800 V6. Now who's using primative technology again


Dave

96 Maxima SE
14.45@99.51mph with a 2.316 60'

JDM intake manifold, JWT ECU, Y-pipe, UDP, hacked stock airbox, 2K Maxima muffler

 

Having a huge amount of torque off the line is nice but almost unbearable in a FWD car. It takes a lot of skill to launch a FWD car without copious amounts of wheel spin.

The basic GM 3800 block was developed in the 60's. Several advancements have been made to the motor since then but regardless what you do to it, your still left with a primitive push rod block stuck in the technology of the era it was made in. The reason it is still used today is pure economics. It costs a lot of money to develop a new power train. The bean counters at GM figure it's good enough so that's all the designers get to work with. When I was bagging on the GM3800 I am speaking from experience. My parents had a 1987 Oldsmobile 98. For 3.8 litres it produced a dismal 150 HP. The motor lasted only 82000. Before it seized and left them stranded 350 miles from home. I am not sure which part failed as the service department in Southern California was purposefully vague with my parents. They purchased a new crate 3800 motor. It ran okay after that. They eventually gave the car to my brother who subsequently blew the new motor at with only 28000 miles on it. Also in that time my parents owned it the Transmission failed and needed replacing. Skip forward the replacement car they purchased was a Buick Park Avenue ultra. At the time I was bending my Dad's ear about how fast the car was. Now I wish I would have never recommended that car. Aside from all of the chassis related failures the drive train concerns me. The motor didn't even last till 60K before it was in desperate need of a tune up. The ignition was missing so bad that the car barely made it to my mechanics shop. my Taurus SHO on the other hand went 102000 before I sent it to my Mechanic for it's first tune up.

So yes you can make a GTP ultra fast. I have seen them with my own eyes. But realize you are seriously compromising your drive train in doing so. Your Transmission will die before 70K and the motor probably won't last much longer. Now I am sure you will point out many cars that have lasted longer. Which may be so but I believe those are the exception rather than the rule.

Jim
'03 Sedan
Brilliant Silver/Graphite
6MT/ Premium package
Sport tuned suspension
Aerodynamic Body Kit
Navigation and Satellite Radio

 

hmmmmmmmmm - lets see. GM or VQ....GM or VQ....doh. How about 3.8 in my 82 regal. I had blown the thing apart in 82,000 miles. Crap

 

once again, ingnorance is bliss. Most of the 12 and 13 second GTP's DO NOT HAVE TRANSMISSION PROBLEMS. adding a basic tranny cooler solves majority of the issues.


DO SOME HOMEWORK BEFORE YOU SPEW NONE SENSE.


2002 Infiniti I35
-sports package
-winter package
-sun package
-rim package
*H&R lowering springs

 

Ignorance is bliss isn't it. Here is some of the text taken from owner reported problems at GrandPrix.net related to transmission problems.

Problem Abstract: BAD TRANSMISSION--PLEASE READ!!
Reported By: David Tillman (David.Tillman@hboc.com)
Year: 1997
Model: GT
Mileage: 52k
Applicable Options:
Solution: Overhaul. The torque converter rebuilt, a new clutch, and other hard and soft parts of the transmission replaced.
Cost: $1,786.10
Other: I am absolutly furious. I had to spend $1,786.10 to have my transmission overhauled, the torque converter rebuilt, a new clutch, and other hard and soft parts of the transmission replaced. The car only has 52K miles on it. The problem started when I was on the freeway and the car would not shift into 4 gear or overdrive. My guess is that as more GP's approach this mileage you will see more transmission problems. I am concurrently writing General Motors executives (CEO, VP North American Operations) to seek reimbursement for the transmission repairs that were done on the car. I am also writing Consumer Reports, the Better Business Bureau, and about 4 consumer agencies and government agencies. I should not have to pay for a major repair so soon after the warranty has expired. This reflects poorly on Pontiac to have made a vehicle that needs such an expensive and major repair with only 52 thousand miles on it. I have seen several TSB related to the transmissions. I think GM is aware of the problem but is not annoucning it yet. The 800 number is a joke. They couldn't even tell me the name of the factory zone rep. over Georgia or the southeast. When I took my car to the dealership were I purchased the car they said that the entire transmission needed to be replaced for a cost of $2,700.00. Naturally, a car with 52 thousand miles on it should not be having a complete transmission replaced, so I began to press for a more detailed explanation of the problem. It was then suggested that I take the car elsewhere if I did not want the transmission replaced. It was finally admitted to me that the dealership does not have a technician that is competent in repairing a transmission. I took it to an AAMCO and they were able to fix it for 1K less. I cannot begin to tell you how very disappointed I am in the Grand Prix. If anyone would like a copy of the letters I have sent please e-mial me. If anyone else has had this trouble please e-mail me as well. Pontiac claims "Pontiac Cares", well lets see if they mean that after they don't have to (ie. when the warranty has expired). I will post an update after I hear back from GM whatever the result may be.
Date Entered: 9/11/1998 at 1206 CST

Problem Abstract: Transmission
Reported By: Rick (rickholt@tpcn.com)
Year: 1998
Model: GTP
Mileage: 19,000
Applicable Options:
Solution: Dealer had to rebuild
Cost: Warranty
Other:
Date Entered: 9/10/1998 at 18:00:51 CST

Problem Abstract: Sudden clunk feel when transmission shifts to O/D
Reported By: Mike Bridges (mdbunpar@aol.com)
Year: 1998
Model: GT
Applicable Options: 1SB+
Solution: Dealer first said it needs a simple adjustment. Now dealer is replacing transmission.
Cost: $0.00
Other: 1200 Miles. Dealer is good, but I miss my car!
Date Entered: 12/27/1997 at 01:04:57 CST

Problem Abstract: Trans died after 940 miles
Reported By: Gregory Warzecha (GECKO11@MSN.COM)
Year: 1997
Model: GTP
Applicable Options: 1SD, Fully loaded
Solution: Replaced with new Trans. After calling news station
Cost: 0.00
Other: GM did not want to replace it. They offered a refurb. I had to have my lawyer call cust service.. All they kept doing was hanging up the phone.
Date Entered: 1/2/1998 at 2358 CST

Problem Abstract: Transmission slipping going into 1st gear.
Reported By: Jason Kryzanski ()
Year: 1998
Model: GTP
Mileage: 8100
Applicable Options:
Solution: The service engine light came on while I was stopped. As I accelerated, the trans felt like it was slipping. Once I got going, everything was ok, except for the service light. The dealer found wires pinched, and replaced them. According to them the problem was covered under a TSB, although no specific one was stated.
Cost: warranty
Other:
Date Entered: 7/22/1998 at 09:58:12 CST

Problem Abstract: Trans shifts from drive to neutral at highway spd
Reported By: Steve Brennan (sgb@lbwl.com)
Year: 1997
Model: GT
Mileage: 36070
Applicable Options: 4T60
Solution: Replaced a downshift solenoid under warranty.
Cost: warranty
Other: Since vehicle was over 36K miles, no loaner was provided.
Date Entered: 8/20/1998 at 11:04:59 CST

Problem Abstract: Trans shifts 1-2-3 and into OD Serv. Eng Lt. on
Reported By: Paul Fischer (mlandpf@ccis.com)
Year: 1998
Model: GTP
Mileage: 900
Applicable Options:
Solution: The dealer has had the car for a week, changed the pressure plate and a valve in the tranny which made it worse. They don't know what to do.
Cost: warranty
Other: Want my car back
Date Entered: 9/9/1998 at 1344 CST

Problem Abstract: BAD TRANSMISSION--PART 3
Reported By: Dave (dt07@hotmail.com)
Year: 1997
Model: GT
Mileage: 52K
Applicable Options:
Solution:
Cost:
Other: This is the third report on my attempt to get my money back from Pontiac for my transmission overhaul. {Please see the 2 other posts}For some reason, Pontiac will not address my problem Here is the story: * A car with only 52 thousand miles on it should not require a major transmission overhaul. * My 2 subsequent letters that I sent via certified mail were never read and my situation was not examined in a diligent manner. In fact when my address changed, they didn't even take notice even though it was noted twice in my letters!! Do you think they read them? *It is ridiculous to make a decision on the facts contained in my letters that were never read. To deny my request for reimbursement based on letters that were never read and questions left unanswered is an unfair business practice. *In the first form letter, it was stated that I could not receive reimbursement because the necessity of repair could not be verified. With my second letter I think I have more than dealt with the necessity of the repair. Has anyone ever seen a car run without a transmission? In the second form letter sent to me, it stated that the warranty period had passed. Which is it? I have documented evidence that General Motors has repaired vehicles free of charge to car owners with as much as 100 thousand miles on it. Now this is the third letter- does Pontiac have a third excuse? * I have acted in good faith with Pontiac. Would it not be better to deal with me honestly and ethically? * The first form letter states that "we rely on our Pontiac dealerships to diagnose the concern, verify any manufacturing defects and follow proper repair procedures". I think anyone would agree that service advisors are aware of this policy as well. The service advisor {name withheld}, stated "we haven't been able to fix them yet; GM doesn't even know what is wrong with them (the transmission) or how to fix them". {Is this scary or what?} After a very frustrating night dealing with a customer service manager, it was stated that if I had gone to a different dealership I possibly could have received reimbursement. Once again, this contradicts the "out of warranty and verify the necessity of repair claims". According to the service advisor's statement it would have made no difference if I had gone to 500 dealerships. If General Motors doesn't know what is wrong with the transmission and cannot fix it, why would I have gotten a different response from a another dealership? Is this why so many Grand Prix's transmissions are being replaced? Are the transmissions so flawed that they cannot be fixed only replaced? Can anyone explain to me why it is that GM would be so unfair to tell me I should have spent an extra thousand dollars to have work done that was not necessary to possibly get reimbursed? Note: When I mentioned that I would be posting this on the web site customer service stated they don't care about Grand Prix web sites. Those are excripts of my impending third letter to GM. I firmly believe if the service advisor is right, any one who owns a Grand Prix could be in the situation one day. Understand that I am not trying to hurt Pontiac or GM. I am only trying to tell my story and seek equity for a car that has a problem. Once again anyone who reads this and would like copies of my first 2 letters and GM's response please e-mail me. Anyone who can offer me help {and it is much appreciated} please e-mail me. As before, I will post again when I hear back from Pontiac.
Date Entered: 11/23/1998 at 0944 CST


Problem Abstract: Transmission - Part 2
Reported By: Rick (rickholt@tpcn.com)
Year: 1998
Model: GTP
Mileage: 19,000
Applicable Options:
Solution: After rebuilding the trans, which didn't work, the replaced it with a new one.
Cost: warranty
Other: I now have a trans cooler, trans temp guage and a 160 degree thermostat
Date Entered: 12/2/1998 at 1915 CST

Problem Abstract: Random gear shifting
Reported By: John Marhong (jmarhong@total.net)
Year: 1998
Model: SE
Mileage: 60KM
Applicable Options:
Solution: Dealer replaced engine speed sensor located in the transmission
Cost: warranty
Other: Dealer fixed promptly and efficiently
Date Entered: 1/10/1999 at 1039 CST
From IP: 205.205.157.46 (205.205.157.46)

Jim
'03 Sedan
Brilliant Silver/Graphite
6MT/ Premium package
Sport tuned suspension
Aerodynamic Body Kit
Navigation and Satellite Radio<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by shodog on 09/18/03 02:07 PM.</EM></FONT></P>