Why Bose Sucks
#31
07-18-2006, 10:26 PM
A different kind of Bose review
For the sake of full disclosure, I work for Bose.
Many people criticize Bose products without given them a fair trial.
Bose offers a money back satisfaction policy on it's products. If it doesn't perform to your satisfaction, just return it. i therefore suggest to you that people buy it because it meets their expectations for price, performance, styling, reliability and service. You can't knock a company for getting that formula right.
As far as car audio goes ... I again suggest that you don't knock something you aren't familiar with. Infiniti is under no "contract" to use Bose, and we are under no contract to sell to them. If you think Infiniti is doing a good job of designing and building desirable cars (I think they are doing a stellar job with the G35's), then why can't you trust Infiniti to offer you an audio system that is good value too?
http://stereophile.com/news/071706infiniti
John Feng
Many people criticize Bose products without given them a fair trial.
Bose offers a money back satisfaction policy on it's products. If it doesn't perform to your satisfaction, just return it. i therefore suggest to you that people buy it because it meets their expectations for price, performance, styling, reliability and service. You can't knock a company for getting that formula right.
As far as car audio goes ... I again suggest that you don't knock something you aren't familiar with. Infiniti is under no "contract" to use Bose, and we are under no contract to sell to them. If you think Infiniti is doing a good job of designing and building desirable cars (I think they are doing a stellar job with the G35's), then why can't you trust Infiniti to offer you an audio system that is good value too?
http://stereophile.com/news/071706infiniti
John Feng
#32
07-18-2006, 10:40 PM
Originally Posted by feng
For the sake of full disclosure, I work for Bose.
Many people criticize Bose products without given them a fair trial.
Bose offers a money back satisfaction policy on it's products. If it doesn't perform to your satisfaction, just return it. i therefore suggest to you that people buy it because it meets their expectations for price, performance, styling, reliability and service. You can't knock a company for getting that formula right.
As far as car audio goes ... I again suggest that you don't knock something you aren't familiar with. Infiniti is under no "contract" to use Bose, and we are under no contract to sell to them. If you think Infiniti is doing a good job of designing and building desirable cars (I think they are doing a stellar job with the G35's), then why can't you trust Infiniti to offer you an audio system that is good value too?
http://stereophile.com/news/071706infiniti
John Feng
Many people criticize Bose products without given them a fair trial.
Bose offers a money back satisfaction policy on it's products. If it doesn't perform to your satisfaction, just return it. i therefore suggest to you that people buy it because it meets their expectations for price, performance, styling, reliability and service. You can't knock a company for getting that formula right.
As far as car audio goes ... I again suggest that you don't knock something you aren't familiar with. Infiniti is under no "contract" to use Bose, and we are under no contract to sell to them. If you think Infiniti is doing a good job of designing and building desirable cars (I think they are doing a stellar job with the G35's), then why can't you trust Infiniti to offer you an audio system that is good value too?
http://stereophile.com/news/071706infiniti
John Feng
I'm buying the G35 for the car.
#33
07-18-2006, 10:48 PM
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Originally Posted by feng
For the sake of full disclosure, I work for Bose.
Many people criticize Bose products without given them a fair trial.
Bose offers a money back satisfaction policy on it's products. If it doesn't perform to your satisfaction, just return it. i therefore suggest to you that people buy it because it meets their expectations for price, performance, styling, reliability and service. You can't knock a company for getting that formula right.
As far as car audio goes ... I again suggest that you don't knock something you aren't familiar with. Infiniti is under no "contract" to use Bose, and we are under no contract to sell to them. If you think Infiniti is doing a good job of designing and building desirable cars (I think they are doing a stellar job with the G35's), then why can't you trust Infiniti to offer you an audio system that is good value too?
http://stereophile.com/news/071706infiniti
John Feng
Many people criticize Bose products without given them a fair trial.
Bose offers a money back satisfaction policy on it's products. If it doesn't perform to your satisfaction, just return it. i therefore suggest to you that people buy it because it meets their expectations for price, performance, styling, reliability and service. You can't knock a company for getting that formula right.
As far as car audio goes ... I again suggest that you don't knock something you aren't familiar with. Infiniti is under no "contract" to use Bose, and we are under no contract to sell to them. If you think Infiniti is doing a good job of designing and building desirable cars (I think they are doing a stellar job with the G35's), then why can't you trust Infiniti to offer you an audio system that is good value too?
http://stereophile.com/news/071706infiniti
John Feng
A Money Back Guarantee is a reason to buy Bose, give them a fair trial, this is the best you can come up with...? Are you kidding me..? What other manufacturer that is available at the big box store, the only type of store that your products are available in mind you, does not offer the same guarantee...? And in regards to a "trial", I have heard your Lifestyle systems, the Wave radio and others - no thanks. I'll pass on the paper-cone drivers, plastic enclosures and cheep electronics for something much more worthy of what your charging.
...and if that is one of the founding principles of your company, then give me a refund and others on the POS system you "engineered", or more accurately - "sold" Infiniti for the last 5 years to install in the G35.
Last edited by RLampke; 07-18-2006 at 10:56 PM.
#34
07-18-2006, 10:49 PM
Originally Posted by RLampke
The answer to why you and others defend this car [and the Bose system] is right in your response. Those of us who shop in this class, especially who lease do not judge vehicles solely by "the Track" method - this is not what this class is about. It's about a balance of everything: Performance, Interior Refinement, Technology Implementation, Quality/Build assembly and Prestige all put together. The cars you have mentioned are geared toward this goal - the G35 is not; just as you have stated. It is geared towards the "lower-end" of this segment w/a a sole emphasis on performance. Applying your mythology, then why not purchase a Pontiac GTO - for about the same price and perhaps less, the GTO will fry the G35 "on the track" and has the same "quirks". Or if you want the 4 doors then why not a Cadillac CTS…? Also, the Acura TL has no problem keeping pace w/the G35 as well, granted it may not drive as well, but the performance of the two cars is extremely close – except for the refinement.
I'm not saying your mythology is wrong - you do what works for you and if your happy w/it, all the better – it’s your $$$. However, others that apply a similar reasoning as mine, and this car falls way short and can justify the additional expense over the G35. Again, this may all change w/the '07, but I've yet to inspect one in person.
I'm not saying your mythology is wrong - you do what works for you and if your happy w/it, all the better – it’s your $$$. However, others that apply a similar reasoning as mine, and this car falls way short and can justify the additional expense over the G35. Again, this may all change w/the '07, but I've yet to inspect one in person.
IF you feel that, along with whatever else you feel justifies paying $7grand on top, then why don't you?
The reason why i LOVE the G, is the best bang for your buck. And unless pricing jumps more then 3grand, the 07 is mine.
If it'll make you sleep better at night knowing you paid $7g-10g+ more with BMW/Lexus, for a better sound system....no one will stop you.
I felt Nissan has done so far an excellent job with the interior. The performance, nor exterior was never a problem, yet they've made them even better......CAN'T go wrong.
#35
07-18-2006, 10:54 PM
""That's the '07 model," Crahan said. "For '08, we have it worked out so that when you're driving solo (or feeling selfish), you can flick a switch and center the image for the driver. The left speaker moves virtually to about 4' outside the left door. Now that's impressive.""
Now i gotta wait for the 08??? WTF!
Now i gotta wait for the 08??? WTF!
#36
07-18-2006, 10:57 PM
"John worked up a system that incorporated 10 speakers within the cabin. The main sound is carried in the front doors: 3" neodymium-magnet tweeter/midrange units, 1" soft-dome tweeters, and 10" neodymium-magnet woofers. The rear doors sport 6.5" full-range fill speakers, the parcel shelf boasts a 10" self-powered woofer, and there's a third 3" mid/tweeter in the center just to 'fix' the center image."
Sounds sweet to me!
Sounds sweet to me!
#37
07-18-2006, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Omarvelous
""That's the '07 model," Crahan said. "For '08, we have it worked out so that when you're driving solo (or feeling selfish), you can flick a switch and center the image for the driver. The left speaker moves virtually to about 4' outside the left door. Now that's impressive.""
Now i gotta wait for the 08??? WTF!
Now i gotta wait for the 08??? WTF!
#38
07-18-2006, 11:10 PM
Rlampke,
If you didn't like your G35, you could have gone back to the dealer and tried to negotiate a refund. Bose automotive systems are not sold directly by Bose. They are sold and support per the automotive OEM's policies.
As far as your criticism of technologies, such as "paper" cone speakers ... well, just saying "paper" is bad doesn't make it so. In the same vein, just because a company uses plastic for a speaker cone doesn't make it necessarily better than "paper." Speaker cones, like every other part of your G35, need to meet certain performance specifications. Until you understand what these are (things like tan-delta, stiffness, speed of sound, etc.) your criticism appears to be no more than elementary school name calling.
If you have made up your mind to hate Bose automotive products as a religon, consider the possibility that you've biased yourself to the point of not being able to listen objectively.
On the other hand, why not judge the 2007 G35 Bose system for what it is ... by leaving your brand biases and impressions of the Wave Radio (which is not the same thing as a G35 audio system) ... and giving it a fair listen when it arrives at your dealership?
John Feng
If you didn't like your G35, you could have gone back to the dealer and tried to negotiate a refund. Bose automotive systems are not sold directly by Bose. They are sold and support per the automotive OEM's policies.
As far as your criticism of technologies, such as "paper" cone speakers ... well, just saying "paper" is bad doesn't make it so. In the same vein, just because a company uses plastic for a speaker cone doesn't make it necessarily better than "paper." Speaker cones, like every other part of your G35, need to meet certain performance specifications. Until you understand what these are (things like tan-delta, stiffness, speed of sound, etc.) your criticism appears to be no more than elementary school name calling.
If you have made up your mind to hate Bose automotive products as a religon, consider the possibility that you've biased yourself to the point of not being able to listen objectively.
On the other hand, why not judge the 2007 G35 Bose system for what it is ... by leaving your brand biases and impressions of the Wave Radio (which is not the same thing as a G35 audio system) ... and giving it a fair listen when it arrives at your dealership?
John Feng
#39
07-18-2006, 11:11 PM
Wrong...
Originally Posted by RLampke
Those of us who shop in this class, especially who lease do not judge vehicles solely by "the Track" method - this is not what this class is about.
Obviously, what you have stated above is "dead wrong", because the first generation G35 is/was a smash success in every sense; from its high sales numbers, positive reviews, resale value, and awards. Just because you personally don't feel that it has a good balance of everything, doesn't mean that the other (Aprox: 270,000 People Since 2002) who bought the car did also.
The GTO might "fry" the G35, but it will "rape" and "murder" the 325i, IS250, and TL. What exactly is your point? The Pontiac GTO example you gave was a sales failure.
If you don't feel that the new G35 offers the exact balance you are looking for, there are plenty of companies that make cars in this class that will be happy to take your money.
#40
07-18-2006, 11:41 PM
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Originally Posted by feng
Rlampke,
If you didn't like your G35, you could have gone back to the dealer and tried to negotiate a refund. Bose automotive systems are not sold directly by Bose. They are sold and support per the automotive OEM's policies.
As far as your criticism of technologies, such as "paper" cone speakers ... well, just saying "paper" is bad doesn't make it so. In the same vein, just because a company uses plastic for a speaker cone doesn't make it necessarily better than "paper." Speaker cones, like every other part of your G35, need to meet certain performance specifications. Until you understand what these are (things like tan-delta, stiffness, speed of sound, etc.) your criticism appears to be no more than elementary school name calling.
If you have made up your mind to hate Bose automotive products as a religon, consider the possibility that you've biased yourself to the point of not being able to listen objectively.
On the other hand, why not judge the 2007 G35 Bose system for what it is ... by leaving your brand biases and impressions of the Wave Radio (which is not the same thing as a G35 audio system) ... and giving it a fair listen when it arrives at your dealership?
John Feng
If you didn't like your G35, you could have gone back to the dealer and tried to negotiate a refund. Bose automotive systems are not sold directly by Bose. They are sold and support per the automotive OEM's policies.
As far as your criticism of technologies, such as "paper" cone speakers ... well, just saying "paper" is bad doesn't make it so. In the same vein, just because a company uses plastic for a speaker cone doesn't make it necessarily better than "paper." Speaker cones, like every other part of your G35, need to meet certain performance specifications. Until you understand what these are (things like tan-delta, stiffness, speed of sound, etc.) your criticism appears to be no more than elementary school name calling.
If you have made up your mind to hate Bose automotive products as a religon, consider the possibility that you've biased yourself to the point of not being able to listen objectively.
On the other hand, why not judge the 2007 G35 Bose system for what it is ... by leaving your brand biases and impressions of the Wave Radio (which is not the same thing as a G35 audio system) ... and giving it a fair listen when it arrives at your dealership?
John Feng
Also, whoever said I was not familiar w/the mathematics and engineering of speakers..? If that’s your assumption you are sadly mistaken. Whoever mentioned plastic cones..? There are certainly other materials that are well suited for automotive applications, such as Aluminum that is much stiffer than any "treated" paper cone driver that your referring to. Yes this does entail a more expensive manufacturing process, and yes paper does have certain attribute that are desirable, but it's too bad your speakers do not apply these processes to the paper cone speakers in your products that make then desirable. As a matter-of-fact, the amount of cone breakup in your product is so great, you have to resort to electronic manipulation of the sound to compensate for this shortcoming. Nevertheless, if you think that I'm not educated enough, here it is explained technically by another professional: http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html
What does a bias or unbiased opinion have to do w/a great sounding system…? Great systems speak for themselves, and if the new system in the G35 is so good, then this will have no problem speaking for itself.
Unfortunately, the only item here that is "elementary school" is the engineering and design of your products.
Last edited by RLampke; 07-18-2006 at 11:59 PM.
#41
07-18-2006, 11:45 PM
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Originally Posted by senneca01
This statement automatically negates everything you have said. Since when do you speak for everyone who shops for this class of cars and for those who lease? Who named you the judge of, "what this class is about"?
..and rape an Acura TL - are you kidding me..? Perhaps your referring to a previous generation TL.
Last edited by RLampke; 07-18-2006 at 11:49 PM.
#42
07-19-2006, 12:04 AM
Boy, I knew I was going to regret this ...
Rlampke,
You state you know a lot about speaker design.
Fine, state for us the 5 primary design criteria for cone materials, and if you are as smart as you say, you could even let us know what primary design tradeoffs are made between those criteria for a particular cone material ... say aluminum.
You state that aluminum is more expensive to manufacture than "paper"
Why don't you start by telling us what formulation of "paper" it is that is so cheap. Then, tell us the cost difference between aluminum and paper for a give cone size/geometry? And are you really sure aluminum is all that good? Sure, it's stiff, but at what weight? And have you noticed that aluminum makes for great wind chimes ...as in it rings on and on and ... wonderful for speaker cones, right?
You talk about cone breakup. Have you measured it before? Which automotive drivers have you tested. At what frequency and excursion level did they breakup? What type of breakup did you observe? Do you really think DSP processing can compensate for breakup modes (hopeless, you are)?
Cone breakup is a very complex process, to the point where the onset of a breakup mode may not be as important as the specific characteristics of the breakup. it may be preferable to have a little earlier breakup that is relatively benign over that which occurs at higher excursions but that has more audible characteristics.
And, finally you take a pot shot at DSP as a bandaid. Pray tell me why you think signal processing is not a good way to correct for automotive cabin acoustics.
John Feng
You state you know a lot about speaker design.
Fine, state for us the 5 primary design criteria for cone materials, and if you are as smart as you say, you could even let us know what primary design tradeoffs are made between those criteria for a particular cone material ... say aluminum.
You state that aluminum is more expensive to manufacture than "paper"
Why don't you start by telling us what formulation of "paper" it is that is so cheap. Then, tell us the cost difference between aluminum and paper for a give cone size/geometry? And are you really sure aluminum is all that good? Sure, it's stiff, but at what weight? And have you noticed that aluminum makes for great wind chimes ...as in it rings on and on and ... wonderful for speaker cones, right?
You talk about cone breakup. Have you measured it before? Which automotive drivers have you tested. At what frequency and excursion level did they breakup? What type of breakup did you observe? Do you really think DSP processing can compensate for breakup modes (hopeless, you are)?
Cone breakup is a very complex process, to the point where the onset of a breakup mode may not be as important as the specific characteristics of the breakup. it may be preferable to have a little earlier breakup that is relatively benign over that which occurs at higher excursions but that has more audible characteristics.
And, finally you take a pot shot at DSP as a bandaid. Pray tell me why you think signal processing is not a good way to correct for automotive cabin acoustics.
John Feng
#43
07-19-2006, 12:10 AM
http://www.intellexual.net/bose.html ???
Goodness, Rlampke,
You have been taken in by the classic internet dilema ... that the appearance in "print" somehow legitimizes it. Another name for what you are falling for is sometimes referred to as, "proof by assertion." The trusty tool of the illogical, who chose only to believe statements that support what they believe..
As befits your penchant for swallowing internet posts as fact, how about
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/...6/article.html
John Feng
You have been taken in by the classic internet dilema ... that the appearance in "print" somehow legitimizes it. Another name for what you are falling for is sometimes referred to as, "proof by assertion." The trusty tool of the illogical, who chose only to believe statements that support what they believe..
As befits your penchant for swallowing internet posts as fact, how about
http://www.edmunds.com/reviews/list/...6/article.html
John Feng
#44
07-19-2006, 12:10 AM
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Will the Bose soud system be able to rip tracks directly from CD's onto the HD? If so, what will be the compression ratio? 192, 256 kbs? I'm also curious as to how the system handles mp3's / wma's in terms of sound.
#45
07-19-2006, 07:21 AM
Originally Posted by RLampke
Great - more Bose electronic trickery. Here's an idea: engineer a real audio system w/a wide soundstage so there is no need to makeup for the system's short commings w/DSP and other electronic tricks.
