I'm impressed on how well BMW can engineer their stut type suspension vs Infiniti's forged alumin A-arm.

While I'll agree with the fact that if Infiniti could sell them for 10 grand more, I guess they would. But I'll also assume if they could sell them for that much, the car would be that much better also. But the Japanese have never really tried to compete dollar for dollar. Just not the way they have operated. Nor is it in their best interest to try. More value is what they are all about. And I think they have done a decent job. They have found a very profitable market niche and see no reason to change their strategy.

While I do think the new 335i is faster than the new G35. It's still pretty close. Closer than I thought it would be. But up to this year, the G35 has outperformed the BMW in almost every category. Except for the subjective "feel" dept.

It's hard to argue with you as you have owned both. But that's my subjective 2 cents on it anyway.

 

Well I haven't owned the 335i yet, just driven it a bunch. I haven't even been in an '07 G (obviously), comparing the current G to the 335i is a little unfair to the G because it's a 4 year old model and it is significantly less expensive. I only do so because I have to assume it will be a least somewhat indiactive of the '07 G. I do believe the '07 G will be almost as fast, however I am skeptical about it's ability to outhandle the 3-series. It's been a long time since anyone's pulled that off. I definitely think the '07 sedan is going to be a stellar value. The amount of technology in it for the price is astounding. But that's been the MO of the Japanese forever (as you mentioned).

Lexus just recently started pricing inline with BMW (the IS350 is only a couple percent less than a 335); it took them almost 30 years to go to where they could price close to BMW. Infiniti might get there, but it's going to take some time. The G, FX, and M are their first real sellers in almost their entire history, so they'll need a good "sophmore" effort to gain some steam in the market.

I love a good car talk. Cheers.

 

I agree with your comments here! Hey, the MF on the BMW 335i tt Coupe should go down in the next 2 months, but how much will it really lower the lease rates? Only time will tell, but I'm not holding my breath.

If in Nov. (when I test drive the '07 G35) I'm 75% as impressed in regards to the quickness, handling, and driving thrill in the '07 G35 Sedan (not including all the extra high-tech stuff I know and love! ), then the G35 will once again be the one for me, unless I decide to go with a loaded '07 M45, which is probably still less $$ each month than the BMW 335i!!

 

I guess I was just trying to say "there is a reason the 335i costs as much as it does", whether it's worth it to you or not is a personal thing - but overpriced is in the eye of the beholder. For me, regardless of price, it is the right car.

 

That is exactly it Kevin. You hear alot of people make general statements like bimmers are overpriced. While bimmers may be overpriced to THEM specifically, they are worth every penny to others. It all depends on what YOU deem worth it or not.

 

Um, not to nit-pick, but it's hardly been 30 years. IIRC, the first model year lexus was 1990.

And I agree that to the people that buy bimmers, they are not overpriced. But let's face it. I'd love to see a demographic profile of the owners of the 3 series. I bet the overwhelming majority would be women, and of those, a *very small* fraction would even notice the handling and performance differences between the g and the 3.

The 3 performs and handles very well, and that's why it's the benchmark in the automotive magazines and for the enthusiasts. But for the majority of owners, it's the benchmark because of brand equity.

 

I am tired of this quote when it comes to the BMW versus the world comparo. Magazines say bimmers drive better overall, but I think the differences are only really noticeable when pushing the car 9/10ths. I recently flogged the heck out of a 2006 330i sedan during a cadillac test drive marketing event in Socal and yes, the little bimmer felt better through the cones compared to the competition, but my perceived differences were minor (given the limited driving time). I doubt most owners ever drive their bmw's at the limit to really appreciate the superior "benchmark" dynamics. People pay the extra premium for mostly the BMW name. If you don't care about that, then an infiniti, lexus or other comparable performance car would be just as good.

 

http://www.lexus.com/about/history/index_1997_1983.html

 

Haha, you might be sick of it but that's because it's true. The difference might not be noticable to you; but you don't need to be flogging the car to feel superior road feedback, ride quality, and suspensions, imo. If you think the current G is as good as the 330i in handling, fine - but you're in the minority. It has more nose dive, way more body roll, and way more steering strafe in corners; and not corners on tracks, I am talking about every day driving.

As for people buying the brand; seriously, how sick am I of that? Sure, some people buy for the brand name, but for every yuppy buying a 525i because of the roundel, there is a guy like me buying a BMW because they make good cars. Let's assume since we're all enthusiasts here that we're not buying to be badge ******, ok? Frankly, if there was a Hyundia that felt like the 335i, I'd have bought it. The negative attention of a BMW isn't something I love.

As for how long Lexus has been around; if you go by cars on the road yes, 1989. If you go by the brand, 25 years. Sorry, I rounded up.

Listen guys, I am not ragging on the G. I've spent the last 4 years of my life driving two of them; I just think that as is typical on internet forums there is a little brand-fanboi'ism going on. The G is a great car and a great value, but in many ways it does not compare favorably to the 3-series, and part of the reason you pay less for it.

 

If in the next 2 months, I could get a loaded 335i (MSRP at $53k) on a 24 or 30 month lease for $650/mo.-$675/mo. with 18k-20k mi./yr. (without doing some crazy cap cost reduction. i.e. a huge down payment, I'd still consider the 335i tt Coupe. However, I might not be able to get past all the high-tech goodies it lacks compared to the new G35. The 335i does drive very well, but I don't feel I "have to drive" a Bimmer for a perceived higher status. Not to brag, but as I told the BMW salesman today, I could afford to pay more than $1,000/mo. for this car, but I choose not to; it's not a practical way for me to spend that kind of $$ on a leased car I'm going to get rid of in 2-3 years after I've put 40k-50k mi. on it.

I am very happy driving an Infiniti; the car I've had the most fun driving was in fact an '04.5 G35 with a few mods of course , and this new '07 G35 appears as if it's much improved...engine, exhaust, styling, and high-tech goodies. So, I would think I'd be very happy with the new G35 with no regrets over not getting the Bimmer.

As I said before, if my test drive of the '07 G35 Sedan comes close (>75%) to my test drive of the BMW 335i, just based on the driving experience alone (b/c I know I'll be VERY happy with all the high-tech stuff I want -- voice activation, touchscreen Navi w/ XM Traffic, bluetooth, rear-view camera, Intelligent Key, Laser-Guided Intelligent Cruise Control, Bose Studio on Wheels, 9.5 GB HDD, Adaptive Front Lights, Front/Rear Wheel Active Steer, a real TPMS, etc.), then I'll be sitting down with the salesman to complete the deal.

My wife and I were discussing it this evening, and as she put it, "you'd very very unhappy if you didn't have all the cool stuff you're already used to in the Infiniti. You might be driving a BMW, but you'd be complaining every day about everything you don't have in the car that you could've had for less money with the Infiniti G35." How true.

 

It always costs a lot to get that little extra. Real life is full of choices. I would say they're worth every penny, but if you don't have that many or need to spend them elsewhere, one has to make sensible decisions. Probably nobody can knock the new G35, it doesn't fail in any way. But it's not realistic to believe that it can be superior in every way to something costing 12k+ similarly equipped. This is only my 2nd post and I'm surprised how many threads include three letters--B M W. I hope that will die down when this new car finally gets into peoples' hands!

 

That is the beauty of it all, choices choices. The whole process of buying a car is completely subjective. It is based on what YOUR needs/wants are, not someone else's. Everyone's requirements will be different. The Bimmer fits alot of people's needs and wants, just like Infiniti fits other people's needs and wants.

I chose the new G because I have been 100% satisfied with my current one over the last 3 years of ownership. Combining looks, options, and price, the new G was simply a fit for me. Having said that, I completely understand why the 335i is going to be a home run for BMW.....that car is gorgeous and I am sure it moves and handles like hell.

 

This is the 2nd time you've said it has taken Lexus "30 years" to go where they could price close to BMW. Lexus first came to market in 1990. They're celebrating their 17th anniversary this year. Are you including all the time Toyota has been in the US market? If so, I believe Toyota has been here for over 30 yrs.

Regardless, I think Lexus built up it's brand cache in a very short period of time. In fact, I think by about 5 yrs after their launch, the Lexus brand was already highly thought of and by 10 yrs (2000), Lexus had the same brand cachet as BMW and Mercedes (though at lower prices).

With respect to the 07 G35 "out handling" BMW, I think the test results have shown that it already does that. It pulled an objectively higher skidpad figure and had lower lap times. With that said, the reviewers commented that the BMW felt more composed. I know exactly what they're saying. I haven't had opportunities to drive BMWs much, but whenever I have, I'm amazed at the amt of suspension travel they have and the well damped/taut feel the car has. BMWs tend to have more body roll, but once the car rolls to a certain extent, it takes a hard set and provides very confident inspiring handling. Subjectively, I think BMWs feel like they handle much better b/c of these factors.

Still, if you go by what Motor Trend and C&D have indicated, the 07 G35 technically outhandles the 330i.

 

read the whole thread. one of the posts by the original thread starter:
sounds pretty decent on the BMW part to want to research this.

 

Alright. I admit defeat on the 30 year thing. I was going by the fact that the brand "Lexus" was founded 25 years ago. They did not have cars in the US until 1989, so I should have said "17 years" instead of 30. That said, my point was it took them many years to reach a point where they could price within 5% of BMW. Infiniti is not yet there - they do not have the brand recognition to price inline the BMW/Mercedes/Lexus. They might some day, but for now they have to push value because that's how they sell cars.

As for handling; I guess we will have to wait until we can drive '07 sedans. I consider mag reviews to be fairly useless since they don't always center on the things I am interested in and don't account for price; but folks on forums seem to like to go by them, so I will too until I can drive one. Perhaps I will be pleasantly surprised by the new G sedan; however the last generation of car leads me to believe that the current 3 series will still "out-handle" the G, however you quantify that.

I do disagree about the mag tests. MT and winding road both picked the 330i as the winner, and C&D didnt mention the 330i (I dont think?). The '07 G was quicker and scored as well or better in the skidpad in mt, but in both cases (mt and wr) the reviewers picked the 330i as the better car because it "had the advantage in handling" (winding road), because of the "sublime and vice-free chassis dynamics" (MT). Subjective or not, there is something to be said about that.