Question to the Admins
#46
03-28-2009, 05:17 PM
Protecting the banned member directly or indirectly through support via glowing recommendations and the active participation in a group buy that does fail the MOU, some of the staff/moderators on this site are not only doing the community a disservice, but also the very supportive sponsors and aid in the "scamming" of its membership.
Scott is pedaling his "goods" on other sites currently. Members there are referring the great success he has had here. This ill-conceived notion that his product works and that he is a real shop is perpetuated by the actions, or non-actions, of the staff/moderators on this site. Please rethink your stance on any subject relating to Scott @ RA, WA2GOOD, VRT... - they are one in the same.
The members you decided to harass (that is what MU is) were out to protect others. Instead their voice has been silenced and Scott's is amplified by the continuance support of the staff/moderators.
Scott is pedaling his "goods" on other sites currently. Members there are referring the great success he has had here. This ill-conceived notion that his product works and that he is a real shop is perpetuated by the actions, or non-actions, of the staff/moderators on this site. Please rethink your stance on any subject relating to Scott @ RA, WA2GOOD, VRT... - they are one in the same.
The members you decided to harass (that is what MU is) were out to protect others. Instead their voice has been silenced and Scott's is amplified by the continuance support of the staff/moderators.
#47
03-28-2009, 05:20 PM
#48
03-28-2009, 05:32 PM
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Whether or not harm was intended, harm was inflicted. I made it clear that I wanted to give the members experiencing problems a place to discuss those problems, but these members still continued to p!ss in the threads for discussing the problems/solutions/updates. Having said that, I cannot be very certain that they will not continue clouding the said discussion threads. They already ignored my requests to do so, so what's to say they won't do it again? I've said this several times already, my main concern and intent is to give our members that actually have to deal with the problem at hand a place to discuss that problem and any possible solutions without interference.
Unfortunately, their placement in MU is non-negotiable. However, I can tell you that their placement in MU is not permanent at this time. Each member's case will be looked at on an individual basis. Those that caused more trouble will stay in MU longer (i.e. those that took cheap shots at the Staff), etc. A little time off will hopefully give them time to understand the consequences of their actions - causing even more of a headache for those that have already bought the bar and are dealing with its problems - whether intentional or not
Unfortunately, their placement in MU is non-negotiable. However, I can tell you that their placement in MU is not permanent at this time. Each member's case will be looked at on an individual basis. Those that caused more trouble will stay in MU longer (i.e. those that took cheap shots at the Staff), etc. A little time off will hopefully give them time to understand the consequences of their actions - causing even more of a headache for those that have already bought the bar and are dealing with its problems - whether intentional or not
#49
03-28-2009, 05:38 PM
The threads were locked not to protect Scott/RA, but to hopefully stop the bashing so that the effected members could have a place for discussion. However, those subsequent threads for discussion were also p!ssed in. And that is when people were placed in MU.
Just so there is no confusion, you time line is not accurate.
Punches thrown in original GB thread, thread locked and new thread started, more punches thrown, posts deleted, and then members were placed in MU - after they took multiple threads off track.
Again, the purpose of placing them in MU was NOT to silence them, but rather to offer our members a place for discussion regarding their problems with their products. That discussion was clearly not going to take place so long as this handful of members was around to interfere.
#50
03-28-2009, 05:56 PM
Can any assurances from the g35driver staff be made at this point in time to keep banned sponsors & banned members products from being openly marketed on this forum ? I'm not just picking on RA, this goes for any and all banned forum members/sponsors past, present and future.
#51
03-28-2009, 06:04 PM
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My apologies if that post seemed like I was referring to YOU specifically, that was not my intention whatsoever. That is why the second line of my post refers to "people" posting links in unrelated threads. There are some people, and they know who they are, who came here just to create drama.
I am not sure what post of yours was deleted, so I can not comment on that one specifically, my comments were much more general in nature. I'm don't know if your comment about "people that run this site don't have their heads in the right place, and are under the influence of "another entity"" applies to me and my comments, but if so please elaborate. If you don't want to post it here, feel free to send me a PM.
I tried to answer your question the best I could since no one else had addressed it yet, if you did not feel it was sufficient or simply did not like my response, then I'm sorry you feel that way.
By the way, posts like this, aren't constructive criticism. You provide no details and the way you are going about getting your point across is poor and is not going to elicit a response that leads to progress.
I am not sure what post of yours was deleted, so I can not comment on that one specifically, my comments were much more general in nature. I'm don't know if your comment about "people that run this site don't have their heads in the right place, and are under the influence of "another entity"" applies to me and my comments, but if so please elaborate. If you don't want to post it here, feel free to send me a PM.
I tried to answer your question the best I could since no one else had addressed it yet, if you did not feel it was sufficient or simply did not like my response, then I'm sorry you feel that way.
By the way, posts like this, aren't constructive criticism. You provide no details and the way you are going about getting your point across is poor and is not going to elicit a response that leads to progress.
It really seems as if the people who run this are being directed by groups or individuals. I have no reason to believe that someone isn't providing selective guidance to topics of discussion on this site. I have no reason to want to hide it or PM it since I'm pretty sure it has been discussed before.
I love how now everyone plays stupid when at first you tell me why my post was deleted, and now you don't know what post I'm talking about. Like I said in my last post I have no reason to continue posting in this thread since all information passed can be molded into something that makes sense to you and only benefits you and not the people who use this site.
Thank you for answering my questions. That is all I have. Please do not refer to me in anymore post as I have unsubscribed.
#52
03-28-2009, 06:23 PM
Can any assurances from the g35driver staff be made at this point in time to keep banned sponsors & banned members products from being openly marketed on this forum ? I'm not just picking on RA, this goes for any and all banned forum members/sponsors past, present and future.
For example, if a member received a product from a banned sponsor outside of the forum or bought a product used that was originally from a banned sponsor, we are not going to delete his/her posts/opinions/reviews about the product. However, we will not let it go beyond that. That is, if it becomes apparent to us that he/she is continually bumping a thread for the purpose of giving the product, and therefore the (banned) sponsor in question, more exposure, the situation will be looked at and the necessary actions will be taken. In short, any blatant attempts to advertise without paid sponsorship will be taken care of.
Last edited by Calvin; 03-28-2009 at 06:28 PM.
#53
03-28-2009, 06:33 PM
Good thing I didn't post that over here. I'm pretty sure you would have not hesitated to delete that. I didn't know that my opinions voiced at another site matter so much to you. All the details to go with that post on another site are in plain sight to be seen here.
It really seems as if the people who run this are being directed by groups or individuals. I have no reason to believe that someone isn't providing selective guidance to topics of discussion on this site. I have no reason to want to hide it or PM it since I'm pretty sure it has been discussed before.
I love how now everyone plays stupid when at first you tell me why my post was deleted, and now you don't know what post I'm talking about. Like I said in my last post I have no reason to continue posting in this thread since all information passed can be molded into something that makes sense to you and only benefits you and not the people who use this site.
Thank you for answering my questions. That is all I have. Please do not refer to me in anymore post as I have unsubscribed.
It really seems as if the people who run this are being directed by groups or individuals. I have no reason to believe that someone isn't providing selective guidance to topics of discussion on this site. I have no reason to want to hide it or PM it since I'm pretty sure it has been discussed before.
I love how now everyone plays stupid when at first you tell me why my post was deleted, and now you don't know what post I'm talking about. Like I said in my last post I have no reason to continue posting in this thread since all information passed can be molded into something that makes sense to you and only benefits you and not the people who use this site.
Thank you for answering my questions. That is all I have. Please do not refer to me in anymore post as I have unsubscribed.
Do people really think comments like the one I quoted from my350 ("That is a **** poor site ran by children") helped ANYONE? No. You (people in general) are taking the cheap shots that Calvin referred to earlier.
As far as playing stupid, I made a guess at what you did based on your post above. Take a look at the forum leaders and see what sections I actually have authority in, there's only one and I'm pretty sure it is not the one your post was deleted from. Outside the coupe section I can't see what was deleted any more than the premier members here can. My comments were based on what Rickdogg did for his whiteg35c post, which I gave as an example. He posted something that was off topic, and unrelated to the magazine cover.
Thanks for educating me about your conspiracy theory though and the people running the site, I'm just a mod in the coupe section so I wasn't in the loop.
Last edited by kernel; 03-28-2009 at 06:49 PM.
#54
03-28-2009, 06:47 PM
I have a question… Would the MU and Banned status still have been implemented (with said members) had they done the same thing PRIOR to the strut bar being made/purchased? The way I’m reading the majority of this thread (which is supposed to be about staff problems not about a specific thread), the issue of MU status is because those that purchased the bar cant get the help they need without ancillary interference. However, I truly feel the same action would have been taken if the same members (on MU) posted the same info (as warning) prior to the initiation of the GB, it would have been the same outcome.
From my perspective – the bottom line is a simple matter (take the complexity of the RA issue out of it) – there are staff members that are not treating everyone equal and are not holding up to the standards expected by the VQ community. It really is that simple.
I’m not mentioning this to support the members that have had their status changed… I’m stating it because it’s a microcosm of other similar type issues that have gone on for a long time. Note, I have been a member here for a several years – the reason I am not premier stems largely from this subject (btw, I was premiere for 2-3 years before refusing to monetarily support the corruption and lack of acceptable responses regarding other site issues). I keep reading about how mods/staff/admins are volunteers, blah, blah, blah… guess what – if you were paid to do this MANY of you would be FIRED!
This post is on topic and contains viable questions and statements from a worthy member. Sorry if it offends anyone, but those that are offended – you are probably the ones that it refers to.
From my perspective – the bottom line is a simple matter (take the complexity of the RA issue out of it) – there are staff members that are not treating everyone equal and are not holding up to the standards expected by the VQ community. It really is that simple.
I’m not mentioning this to support the members that have had their status changed… I’m stating it because it’s a microcosm of other similar type issues that have gone on for a long time. Note, I have been a member here for a several years – the reason I am not premier stems largely from this subject (btw, I was premiere for 2-3 years before refusing to monetarily support the corruption and lack of acceptable responses regarding other site issues). I keep reading about how mods/staff/admins are volunteers, blah, blah, blah… guess what – if you were paid to do this MANY of you would be FIRED!
This post is on topic and contains viable questions and statements from a worthy member. Sorry if it offends anyone, but those that are offended – you are probably the ones that it refers to.
#55
03-28-2009, 06:56 PM
#56
03-28-2009, 07:03 PM
I have a question… Would the MU and Banned status still have been implemented (with said members) had they done the same thing PRIOR to the strut bar being made/purchased? The way I’m reading the majority of this thread (which is supposed to be about staff problems not about a specific thread), the issue of MU status is because those that purchased the bar cant get the help they need without ancillary interference. However, I truly feel the same action would have been taken if the same members (on MU) posted the same info (as warning) prior to the initiation of the GB, it would have been the same outcome.
From my perspective – the bottom line is a simple matter (take the complexity of the RA issue out of it) – there are staff members that are not treating everyone equal and are not holding up to the standards expected by the VQ community. It really is that simple.
I’m not mentioning this to support the members that have had their status changed… I’m stating it because it’s a microcosm of other similar type issues that have gone on for a long time. Note, I have been a member here for a several years – the reason I am not premier stems largely from this subject (btw, I was premiere for 2-3 years before refusing to monetarily support the corruption and lack of acceptable responses regarding other site issues). I keep reading about how mods/staff/admins are volunteers, blah, blah, blah… guess what – if you were paid to do this MANY of you would be FIRED!
This post is on topic and contains viable questions and statements from a worthy member. Sorry if it offends anyone, but those that are offended – you are probably the ones that it refers to.
From my perspective – the bottom line is a simple matter (take the complexity of the RA issue out of it) – there are staff members that are not treating everyone equal and are not holding up to the standards expected by the VQ community. It really is that simple.
I’m not mentioning this to support the members that have had their status changed… I’m stating it because it’s a microcosm of other similar type issues that have gone on for a long time. Note, I have been a member here for a several years – the reason I am not premier stems largely from this subject (btw, I was premiere for 2-3 years before refusing to monetarily support the corruption and lack of acceptable responses regarding other site issues). I keep reading about how mods/staff/admins are volunteers, blah, blah, blah… guess what – if you were paid to do this MANY of you would be FIRED!
This post is on topic and contains viable questions and statements from a worthy member. Sorry if it offends anyone, but those that are offended – you are probably the ones that it refers to.
Based on what has been posted here, I believe Scott/RA had already been banned because of his alleged business practices when the group buy was created. If this is correct, then I would imagine these people had plenty of opportunity to express their opinions of Scott/RA.
Someone who was involved in this from the beginning can correct me if I'm wrong.
Had these people made their posts in the appropriate sections (not cluttering up other people's threads) and done so without just bashing any mention of Scott/RA, I am confident they would not have been put into the group they are in now. Those who claim the staff here are being controlled by an outside entity will probably disagree....
#57
03-28-2009, 07:53 PM
For example, if a member received a product from a banned sponsor outside of the forum or bought a product used that was originally from a banned sponsor, we are not going to delete his/her posts/opinions/reviews about the product. However, we will not let it go beyond that. That is, if it becomes apparent to us that he/she is continually bumping a thread for the purpose of giving the product, and therefore the (banned) sponsor in question, more exposure, the situation will be looked at and the necessary actions will be taken. In short, any blatant attempts to advertise without paid sponsorship will be taken care of.
I think what George@GTM did today in this thread is a perfect example of how a vendor should step in when they feel they are not treated fairly. Hopefully GTM's concerns were met with immediate resolution being a major contributor to the VQ community. GTM's accomplishments in moving this community forward over the past couple of years are beyond reproach.
I cannot tell however from your latest post above where exactly g35driver stands on the original RA GB thread. Since Canadian looked to be in charge of arranging all the payments along with initial sales & marketing of the GB and setting timelines for product introduction, etc.... in my opinion that puts him at ground zero with an open sales & marketing arrangement with a banned sponsor for everyone to see. I bet more than one of your approved sponsors would have jumped at the chance to have a GB on STB's all promoted by a g35driver staff/admin. In fact, the forum members would have probably had more than one product choice to chose from given the various models that have been reported to work fine out of the box and install much easier than the RA version. That's my personal opinion as I read through that original RA GB thread and is most likely the hottest topic of debate among the debators in the forum.
I believe I now have a much better understanding in regards to g35drivers policy on supporting banned sponsors and forum members in general.
Thanks again for your time today and have a great weekend.
EDIT: From the forum TOU
18.) GROUP BUYS
Members are to post what they would like a Group Buy on, and wait for a sponsoring vendor to reply and set it up from there. If a vendor is willing to make a profit from this site, they should be willing to step up and become a sponsor and give back to the site that is helping them make the profit. Any post made containing information on a Group Buy being handled by a company who is not a paying advertiser of this site will be locked or deleted. Any company attempting to set up or promote a Group Buy without being a sponsoring vendor is subject to banishment. If you wish to set up a group buy and are not a vendor then please follow the Group Buy GUIDELINES.
Last edited by ToastZ; 03-28-2009 at 09:02 PM.
#58
03-28-2009, 08:56 PM
If the original thread had not been locked, this discussion would be unnecessary. The original thread was about the group buy, not about the product failure by VRT/RA/Scott and the mod/staff member who organized it. Once it was locked, the appearance (perception is reality) that this site was not only organizing a group buy for a banned member/"shop" but also taking measures to limit negative feedback.
Again, I understand your point. However, your (the staff/mods) of this site have limited the open discussion that could prevent further members from being dooped and scammed.
Great vendors that suport this site and our community have been bad mouthed in many threads, yet strangely I don't recall the same action being taken from the mods/staff. However, once a mod/staff member who obviously has an affinity for VRT/RA/Scott locked a thread that was giving negative reviews and verbal punches was locked, the credability of all mods/staff took an enormouse hit.
Locking threads, unlocking to give positive reassurance that the banned person was taking of things and then relocking the same thread reeks of bad judgement. Maybe, create another thread solely for "calling out" VRT/RA/Scott. Either way, I'm done with this thread, just as all members of this site and its mods/staff should be with VRT / RA / Scott and WA2GOOD.
Again, I understand your point. However, your (the staff/mods) of this site have limited the open discussion that could prevent further members from being dooped and scammed.
Great vendors that suport this site and our community have been bad mouthed in many threads, yet strangely I don't recall the same action being taken from the mods/staff. However, once a mod/staff member who obviously has an affinity for VRT/RA/Scott locked a thread that was giving negative reviews and verbal punches was locked, the credability of all mods/staff took an enormouse hit.
Locking threads, unlocking to give positive reassurance that the banned person was taking of things and then relocking the same thread reeks of bad judgement. Maybe, create another thread solely for "calling out" VRT/RA/Scott. Either way, I'm done with this thread, just as all members of this site and its mods/staff should be with VRT / RA / Scott and WA2GOOD.
The original group buy thread should not have been p!ssed in to begin with. That is where the shots at Scott/RA began. If those shots at Scott/RA were never posted, then that thread would have continued to be the thread to discuss the problems people in the group buy are experiencing and any possible solutions.
The threads were locked not to protect Scott/RA, but to hopefully stop the bashing so that the effected members could have a place for discussion. However, those subsequent threads for discussion were also p!ssed in. And that is when people were placed in MU.
Just so there is no confusion, you time line is not accurate.
Punches thrown in original GB thread, thread locked and new thread started, more punches thrown, posts deleted, and then members were placed in MU - after they took multiple threads off track.
Again, the purpose of placing them in MU was NOT to silence them, but rather to offer our members a place for discussion regarding their problems with their products. That discussion was clearly not going to take place so long as this handful of members was around to interfere.
The threads were locked not to protect Scott/RA, but to hopefully stop the bashing so that the effected members could have a place for discussion. However, those subsequent threads for discussion were also p!ssed in. And that is when people were placed in MU.
Just so there is no confusion, you time line is not accurate.
Punches thrown in original GB thread, thread locked and new thread started, more punches thrown, posts deleted, and then members were placed in MU - after they took multiple threads off track.
Again, the purpose of placing them in MU was NOT to silence them, but rather to offer our members a place for discussion regarding their problems with their products. That discussion was clearly not going to take place so long as this handful of members was around to interfere.
#59
03-28-2009, 09:06 PM
If the original thread had not been locked, this discussion would be unnecessary. The original thread was about the group buy, not about the product failure by VRT/RA/Scott and the mod/staff member who organized it. Once it was locked, the appearance (perception is reality) that this site was not only organizing a group buy for a banned member/"shop" but also taking measures to limit negative feedback.
Again, I understand your point. However, your (the staff/mods) of this site have limited the open discussion that could prevent further members from being dooped and scammed.
Great vendors that suport this site and our community have been bad mouthed in many threads, yet strangely I don't recall the same action being taken from the mods/staff. However, once a mod/staff member who obviously has an affinity for VRT/RA/Scott locked a thread that was giving negative reviews and verbal punches was locked, the credability of all mods/staff took an enormouse hit.
Locking threads, unlocking to give positive reassurance that the banned person was taking of things and then relocking the same thread reeks of bad judgement. Maybe, create another thread solely for "calling out" VRT/RA/Scott. Either way, I'm done with this thread, just as all members of this site and its mods/staff should be with VRT / RA / Scott and WA2GOOD.
Again, I understand your point. However, your (the staff/mods) of this site have limited the open discussion that could prevent further members from being dooped and scammed.
Great vendors that suport this site and our community have been bad mouthed in many threads, yet strangely I don't recall the same action being taken from the mods/staff. However, once a mod/staff member who obviously has an affinity for VRT/RA/Scott locked a thread that was giving negative reviews and verbal punches was locked, the credability of all mods/staff took an enormouse hit.
Locking threads, unlocking to give positive reassurance that the banned person was taking of things and then relocking the same thread reeks of bad judgement. Maybe, create another thread solely for "calling out" VRT/RA/Scott. Either way, I'm done with this thread, just as all members of this site and its mods/staff should be with VRT / RA / Scott and WA2GOOD.
I did edit my last post with the information from the forum Terms of Use in regards to group buys. Here it is for clarification. It basically states that group buys are not permitted from vendors which are not paying advertiser. After all, this site runs off the money the sponsors pay.
18.) GROUP BUYS
Members are to post what they would like a Group Buy on, and wait for a sponsoring vendor to reply and set it up from there. If a vendor is willing to make a profit from this site, they should be willing to step up and become a sponsor and give back to the site that is helping them make the profit. Any post made containing information on a Group Buy being handled by a company who is not a paying advertiser of this site will be locked or deleted. Any company attempting to set up or promote a Group Buy without being a sponsoring vendor is subject to banishment. If you wish to set up a group buy and are not a vendor then please follow the Group Buy GUIDELINES.
#60
03-28-2009, 09:08 PM
I completely agree with allowing all the normal thread activity related to any and all parts purchased outside of the forum walls and then brought in for discussion post sale. Even if they are bought from a banned sponsor. Completely agree, thats free enterprise at its best.
I think what George@GTM did today in this thread is a perfect example of how a vendor should step in when they feel they are not treated fairly. Hopefully GTM's concerns were met with immediate resolution being a major contributor to the VQ community. GTM's accomplishments in moving this community forward over the past couple of years are beyond reproach.
I cannot tell however from your latest post above where exactly g35driver stands on the original RA GB thread. Since Canadian looked to be in charge of arranging all the payments along with initial sales & marketing of the GB and setting timelines for product introduction, etc.... in my opinion that puts him at ground zero with an open sales & marketing arrangement with a banned sponsor for everyone to see. I bet more than one of your approved sponsors would have jumped at the chance to have a GB on STB's all promoted by a g35driver staff/admin. In fact, the forum members would have probably had more than one product choice to chose from given the various models that have been reported to work fine out of the box and install much easier than the RA version. That's my personal opinion as I read through that original RA GB thread and is most likely the hottest topic of debate among the debators in the forum.
I believe I now have a much better understanding in regards to g35drivers policy on supporting banned sponsors and forum members in general.
Thanks again for your time today and have a great weekend.
EDIT: From the forum TOU
18.) GROUP BUYS
Members are to post what they would like a Group Buy on, and wait for a sponsoring vendor to reply and set it up from there. If a vendor is willing to make a profit from this site, they should be willing to step up and become a sponsor and give back to the site that is helping them make the profit. Any post made containing information on a Group Buy being handled by a company who is not a paying advertiser of this site will be locked or deleted. Any company attempting to set up or promote a Group Buy without being a sponsoring vendor is subject to banishment. If you wish to set up a group buy and are not a vendor then please follow the Group Buy GUIDELINES.
I think what George@GTM did today in this thread is a perfect example of how a vendor should step in when they feel they are not treated fairly. Hopefully GTM's concerns were met with immediate resolution being a major contributor to the VQ community. GTM's accomplishments in moving this community forward over the past couple of years are beyond reproach.
I cannot tell however from your latest post above where exactly g35driver stands on the original RA GB thread. Since Canadian looked to be in charge of arranging all the payments along with initial sales & marketing of the GB and setting timelines for product introduction, etc.... in my opinion that puts him at ground zero with an open sales & marketing arrangement with a banned sponsor for everyone to see. I bet more than one of your approved sponsors would have jumped at the chance to have a GB on STB's all promoted by a g35driver staff/admin. In fact, the forum members would have probably had more than one product choice to chose from given the various models that have been reported to work fine out of the box and install much easier than the RA version. That's my personal opinion as I read through that original RA GB thread and is most likely the hottest topic of debate among the debators in the forum.
I believe I now have a much better understanding in regards to g35drivers policy on supporting banned sponsors and forum members in general.
Thanks again for your time today and have a great weekend.
EDIT: From the forum TOU
18.) GROUP BUYS
Members are to post what they would like a Group Buy on, and wait for a sponsoring vendor to reply and set it up from there. If a vendor is willing to make a profit from this site, they should be willing to step up and become a sponsor and give back to the site that is helping them make the profit. Any post made containing information on a Group Buy being handled by a company who is not a paying advertiser of this site will be locked or deleted. Any company attempting to set up or promote a Group Buy without being a sponsoring vendor is subject to banishment. If you wish to set up a group buy and are not a vendor then please follow the Group Buy GUIDELINES.