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First Gen HR Swap Q&A

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Old 05-31-2019, 09:02 PM
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First Gen HR Swap Q&A

Let's start with the filtering, it would be extremely beneficial if the negative Nancy's can keep comments to themselves, I'm always down to clear up any confusions.

As to why? Clearly these cars have massive potential, unfortunately the DE has proven itself to be unreliable. Period. Reliability can be sporadic and clearly will all depend on how fast you acknowledge it's oil burning issues. Maxima guys are already jumping on this and are pretty successful for what it looks like. RWD requires more work.

Coupe/Sedan - 6speed, lsd, brembo, great stability comfort and decent cabin noise. All can be had under $3k or even less depending on engine issues.

I've spent my late teens in 30s at Junkyards and these cars are beginning to be more and more noticeable, sadly due to a misfire/high idle or knock/overheat.



The HR engine and trans bolt in for the most part, starter can be an issue however there is documentation of some massaging will make it work

As for accessories my route would be to make the HR A/C and PS work with the DE. This route is more cost effective and will not yield in belt issues.

PS - It's a possibility HR ps house can be bent for it to reach the DE rack. Fitting should be the same. Return is a simple hose.

AC - The compressor is different, thicker pulley, mounting is different due to wider upper oilpan, hose location is different however the high pressure hose looks like it can be finessed in to bolt in. The low side might require welding HR-DE.

Coolant - Stock radiator will work, looks like DE lower hose can be cut and sized to fit in the upper and HR upper would be the lower to the DE rad. As for the heater, it's my opinion the DE hoses could work, a trip to parts store would fix this.

Drive shaft - unaware of anyone having issues with this, assuming they're using the original. This will change depending on chassis as G/Z come with many options.

Exhaust - Since the deck is higher it is possible for DP to not line up however some DPs are higher/lower than other and bolt pattern to Y pipe is the same.


WIRING - The engine harness goes directly to the ECU so this area doesnt need touching unless the owner would request it.
This is the main reason why this has not taken off. Guilty garage sell a plug and play service to adapt the BCM connector to communicate with BCM/IPM and it appears he found a way to delete NATS could be with Uprev.
After years of swapping and wire tucks, this appears to be a matter of reading both FSMs de-pinning and properly placing in the old (DE) location. So HR male BCM connector and DE BCM female connector need to be matched, this would be the most ideal to keep things as "pluggable" as possible, minimizing the chances or hard wiring/ less room for error.

HR power wires for ALT and Starter

For what is documented the CAN for first gen will work with newer years, this is how most have had not problems with gauges working other than warning lights.

Wiring pt 2- another way I've been thinking about this has been using a Rev Up harness, these harnesses already are equipped with 4 cam sensors, also come with a EVTC. Wiring from the IVTC would now move to the front and ETVC wiring could be retrofitted.
Timing sensors are all wired the same way differences come in the lock tabs to differentiate between banks. Crank sensor wiring would have to be moved to the pass side. AF sensors are the same, injectors are the same.
The only thing left would be the throttle bodys. After speaking to others it's possible to duplicate the original throttle signal to the motor.
For it to work it would require Uprev and since these years only use 1 TB you would only have to worry about TPS for 1 side.

As first gens get cheaper and cheaper you'll start seeing this peek more interest, FBO these engines are hitting 300s to the wheels and zero reliability issues, this would also pave the way for 37 swaps.

Why not get a v36 and newer?

Possibly have a v35 that has a ton of potential and you're just tired of burning oil, want to get a bit faster, have a ton of money invested in other parts of the car

V36s are still pretty expensive for what they are especially 6 speeds

Any other inputs are greatly appreciated, I see HRs as low as $300 and as high as $3500 from Fx/Qs/Ex/Max. It will require a bit of work, if planned correctly and the right info is provided in a clear selfless form could mean this swap could be completed for under $2000 depending on your resources/ skill and core costs.
 
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Old 05-31-2019, 09:48 PM
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Not being a negative nancy but why bother with an HR swap when you can LS1 swap for less money and more horsepower if you can fab the motor mount adapter bracket. If you have to buy the bracket then yeah it's going to cost more but Sikky makes a literally bolt-on kit for about $4k that includes EVERYTHING.
 
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:52 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
Not being a negative nancy but why bother with an HR swap when you can LS1 swap for less money and more horsepower if you can fab the motor mount adapter bracket. If you have to buy the bracket then yeah it's going to cost more but Sikky makes a literally bolt-on kit for about $4k that includes EVERYTHING.
The Ls option would essentially be the most ideal as far as performance however the way the LS community is right now these engines are being harder to find, even truck engines people want too much money for. For the same money you could obtain this option however it would require a higher level of fab than a HR swap.

The HR option still ends up being a cheaper option.

In swaps, game changers are the mounts and wiring everything else can or will need modification.
Being that we can recycle many OEM parts means that we could essentially deal with friendly used parts places to include additional items.

You have a better chance at walking out the door with everything you need if you bought all you needed from a donor v36.
Then there will be those that are connected in the community that can source this for pennies on the dollar.

The beauty of this is the many variances of the HR mean that you'll save $400 essentially for the same thing if you just know where to look.
 
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Old 06-01-2019, 02:59 PM
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$350 engine
$500 Trans
$90 Harness
$40 Ecu
$600 misc

Will put you around $1200, misc would include OEM clutch some drive lines you'd be surprise how much you could get at recycler with $600.

A bolt in swap that will probably need some minor welding of accessories and some wiring assignation and we have a possible weekend turnaround.
All OEM, properly communicating with all modules for under $2000

Even buying a 6speed v36 totaled would be more than this and even more to fix and full budget is half of ls with a decent power gain and reliability.
 
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Old 06-01-2019, 04:23 PM
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I understand what you're saying, however for $2k you could probably source an entire used supercharger kit and be pushing +50whp more than a built HR motor. I'm just saying that either way you look at it it's not a very cost effective upgrade to swap an HR. The reliability issues with the DE can definitely be managed and if you were really concerned but wanted to super budget rebuild you could pull it apart, hone, rings, bearings (copy manufacturer tolerances/color codes, don't even measure) and only have to invest about $400 into the motor. Then you've got new rings on the thing, new bearings, and ready to supercharge at 8-9psi for 100k miles.

For only a little more than is invested into a used HR swap, and you keep the same motor which you know works great with the existing components.

I'm just saying the cost effectiveness vs. the gains on the HR don't exactly justify the investment, I do love the HR but personally wouldn't ever consider swapping one in because better options exist for motor swapping.

You're pretty much spot on though for what it would take to do the HR swap though.
 
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:36 PM
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Overall the reliability issues of the DE come down to this.

-Leaking valve covers/spark plug well gaskets.
Remedied for cheap if you're willing to drill out the existing spark plug well gaskets, $50 total including the VC primary gasket.

-Failing sensors, cam/crank.
Remedied for about $120 for non-rev, $200 for rev-up with all new sensors.

-Bad piston rings.
Remedied for the cost of a complete gasket kit, highly recommend the HR head gasket and doing the minor dremel tool work on the block, piston rings, crank bearings, cam bearings. As low as about $350, OEM will be about $500.

Replace the timing chain tensioner while everything is out, add an additional $100, personally I would just clean up the existing one.

Thoroughly inspect and possibly replace the knock sensor sub harness if it's showing any signs of cracking on the wire insulation. $35

Disassemble the cam advance solenoids and clean them up, reuse everything else, motor is now refreshed, break in oil changes for the first 1000 miles. Run it NA for full 3750 oil change interval, bolt on supercharger, 350whp on a stock vehicle, win.
 
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:45 PM
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Now if your plans are for eventually building some BIG POWER then yes the HR swap makes a lot of sense. It's got a higher floor and a much higher ceiling. Full exhaust and tune the HR makes about 310 whp. Full exhaust, spacer, and tune the DE makes about 270whp. Fully fully FI built the DE makes about 1000-1200whp, fully fully built FI the HR makes about 1600-1800whp, structural limits and whatnot. It's amazing how pieces move when under that kind of strain.

However if BIG POWER is the endgame then why not shoot for a different swap option, 2JZ is reliable as hell but unfortunately more expensive now due to limited availability (why the **** doesn't Toyota just manufacture the hell out of that motor....). LS swaps are the new 2JZ swap due to availability and EASY power with rods/cams/tune.

I still believe though that if you want 400whp or less you're far better off sticking with the original motor and just going S/C.
 
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Old 06-01-2019, 05:51 PM
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And if you want to rock an Infiniti/Nissan but want to make the power with easier bolt-on components then upgrade to a G37/370Z, bolt on a GTM supercharger and have 500whp. The chassis does have mechanical and cosmetic improvements and is in nearly every way the "better" vehicle but it certainly doesn't look as amazing as a G35 so there's that. I totally understand the desire to make more power from this platform. Fortunately it's now a decade old chassis so the price tag is VERY reasonable.
 
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:19 PM
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Originally Posted by [email protected]
upgrade to a G37/370Z, bolt on a GTM supercharger and have 500whp. The chassis does have mechanical and cosmetic improvements and is in nearly every way the "better" vehicle but it certainly doesn't look as amazing as a G35 so there's that.
"...amazing as a G35..." is what continues to be my touchstone. The smooth lines of the first gen coupe are timeless.
 
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Old 06-01-2019, 06:57 PM
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Yeah, there are remarkably few G35 coupes where I live and we have no Infiniti dealership within a 200 mile radius. Nearly every time I take it out for a drive people give me comments, it appeals to muscle car gearheads, modern high performance enthusiasts, soccer moms, and everyone who appreciates a luxury vehicle. It's got something for everyone and it looks damned good while doing it.
 
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:17 PM
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Go away cleric, I'm trying to read about how to go about an HR swap. Your analysis about why or why not it's "worth it" is irrelevant to this thread.
 
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:51 PM
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If you're determined to do it then here's the solution to all your possible problem points.

PS - It's a possibility HR ps house can be bent for it to reach the DE rack. Fitting should be the same. Return is a simple hose.
Custom line, pipe bender, flaring tool, couple fittings, done. Might even be able to just use the bender on the existing line to make it work.

AC - The compressor is different, thicker pulley, mounting is different due to wider upper oilpan, hose location is different however the high pressure hose looks like it can be finessed in to bolt in. The low side might require welding HR-DE.
Custom line set, non-issue. For ease of use just adapt the hard line over to 1/2 ACME threads and run a custom length flex hose. Use the HR compressor ideally but the DE compressor could be made to work with a custom bracket.

Coolant - Stock radiator will work, looks like DE lower hose can be cut and sized to fit in the upper and HR upper would be the lower to the DE rad. As for the heater, it's my opinion the DE hoses could work, a trip to parts store would fix this.
Heater core hoses don't require anything fancy, non-issue. Primary cooling hoses should be a non-issue. Might cut/coupling to achieve a better angle but still a non-issue.

Drive shaft - unaware of anyone having issues with this, assuming they're using the original. This will change depending on chassis as G/Z come with many options.
If it's not the same length then get a custom aluminum driveshaft, non-issue.

Exhaust - Since the deck is higher it is possible for DP to not line up however some DPs are higher/lower than other and bolt pattern to Y pipe is the same.
Custom exhaust work, non-issue.

Unless you're hung up on using factory bolt-on parts all these things really are a non-issue. None of them are difficult really but the custom driveshaft will add about $500 so it does have some monetary cost associated with it. Everything else could be adapter for around $100 total.

Check out things like how to bend and flare hard lines for the compression connections, strongly recommend looking into how to discharge/charge your own AC systems (it's easy and only takes about $100 worth of gear for a manifold/vac pump, and you can buy bottles of R134A bulk through Amazon as well as AC oil), and if you run into any snags find a local hot rod shop in town and ask them where they get things like custom driveshafts made. Almost everything those guys do is custom work and usually a reputable local shop will be cheaper than paying the S&H on a big item like that.
 
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Old 06-05-2019, 05:54 PM
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Saving money by doing your own refrigeration work could be an extra $500 that you could then invest into the propeller shaft. Manifold/pump/R134A/oil/scale will be about $200 total.
 
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Old 06-06-2019, 09:50 AM
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I've been around yards my entire life and the HR is an underappreciated engine. It wasnt until I started seeing FBO tunes breaking 300s and my own research I realized there was massive potential to be made.

I say it again, once the wiring aspect of it is resolved where we can document more info you will see this happening more and more. G/Zs once totaled are worthless to most, from 07+ most of wiring gremlins were address, reliability jumped significantly and bolt on FI are yielding great results on stock components.

Of course the DE can be worked on to address these issues however due to the lower deck it will always have a shitty rod angle, this was the reason why a taller deck was opted.
Rear end collisions can be had for $1000 and this is for S models, in the FB group there is a guy from Turkey who swapped entire drive train along with diff and electronics over and appears to be working beautifully.

Other than time, there are more cons on keeping the DE than spending the time to swap over.

I cannot stress this enough, this swap is not for everyone. You'll need skills, money and resources.

However if planned properly with the correct documentation WILL yield the results.

The DE has been in circulation since the mid 90s it has gone from 2.0 to 4.0. The HR is the future and the way to go.


These guys were already doing this in 2014
 
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Old 06-07-2019, 04:15 PM
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So, is there a good place to look for wrecked cars? Almost seems like a more cost effective option, vs paying wrecking yard markup on individual parts.
 

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