COOL! Nice find ISMSOLUTIONS. Google knows alot about exhaust theory. Did you happen to find any relevent info comparing dual and single exhausts when you were searching?

http://www.burnsstainless.com/TechAr...ry/theory.html
http://www.nsxprime.com/FAQ/Miscella...austtheory.htm

If you are going to 'cut and paste', post the link where you got the info from so others know the context in which the info was presented. Plagiarism is a shameful thing...

Also, if you re-read what you posted..
Wouldn't the X pipe in a dual exhaust add an extra surface to cause negative wave reflections as opposed to a Y pipe?

 

If you have been keeping track of this thread... The info you provided doesnt really answer the questions asked. And yes I did bash on you. But that is for unwarranted criticism brought about by your own mistake. All bashing after that point was being critical of the info posted by someone who supposedly had all the answers. Perhaps I had too much faith (or trust) in you.

Well, thats great. But an effective answer would regard the topic in the question. How does the X pipe deal with the extra negative wave reflections that the Y pipe doesnt have? <does this need another paint masterpiece for visualization?

Is there something wrong with expecting a 'knowledgable' site sponsor to be able to answer a question in his realm of expertise? AND be modest enough to tell members if he doesnt know the answer instead of throwing irrelevant info everywhere?

I made a couple spelling errors throughout my many posts in this thread. Its understandable as spelling isnt critical here.

If you want to be critical about this type of thing, have you been keeping track of the thread? If you have, then you would know that you have made numerous grammatical errors. Take a grammar class man...

 

Not quite sure what "to the contrary" means here. What you stated is pretty much what I said. But for a single and even a twin setup, a single large pipe is probably best vs a dual system. And if going single, no one is going to purposely create a dual system out of a single turbo downpipe.

With a supercharger, yes I agree. Although it is a FI application, there are still exhaust pulses that could used in an advantages manner. But the need for scavenging is reduced and the need for size is increased.

 

www.dictionary.com
plagiarism

n 1: a piece of writing that has been copied from someone else and is presented as being your own work 2: the act of plagiarizing; taking someone's words or ideas as if they were your own

Simply not stating where the info came from is still plagiarism because you failed to state that it was not your writing. The posts you make on this message board are automatically represented as your own. Isnt your user name next to every post you make?

 

Jesus Christ! Do you ALWAYS bite the hand that feeds you? Although there are some minor things I see wrong, IM is pretty much spot on on 90% of his advice. He's offered about 10x more than most can provide.

 

^well... he did bite first.

Yes his info was great, however it his being critical of me will get the same treatment.

My original questions are still up for discussion as we havent really gotten down to any details that can answer them.

 

So? You are lucky he doesn't decide just to delete all his posts and leave you hanging. You DO know his posts are done out of COURTESY right? If he cops a slight attitude, so be it. He know his ****, you don't. It's the way it is sometimes. Nothing new

 

^but more than 50% was info I found on Google in 5 seconds. And he still is having a hard time really addressing my question.

To this point, the best I can discern from all this 'stuff' (opps did I spell that wrong?) posted is that it all comes down to tuning and complimentary mods.

If the Y pipe cant balance the pulse, it would be devastating to the performance of the system. But, can you tell me what is happening in the cross section of the X pipe that makes it any different? When viewed in the same light, arent the pulses crammed together in the same way with the only difference being that they later get seperated again. The 'crammed' section would be equally devastating to either system.

 

By having two of everything simply means it is a dual exhaust. By labeling it with 'true', that suggests that they are two independent systems. True meaning that the term 'dual' is being exercised to the fullest extent. In this case, the dual exhausts available for our cars are not 'true' dual.

So a big reason for going with a dual exhaust is due to cost and ability to make future adjustments.

How much are parts with 3.5" piping? It must be very expensive to overcome the costs of double the length of pipes in 2.5", a second resonator and muffler.

Thanks! That's a great answer! and on the first try!

Actually its not solved with the 'true' dual exhaust.

Per the info you provided:
If 6 exhaust pipes are optimal, even with X pipes balancing them, cramming them all into 2 pipes is a sacrafice (not a solution) made in performance to allow more space to fit the system on the car.

Since we have a V6, I assume its only necessary to have an exhaust pipe on each side. Here is where I would see the benefits of a 'true' dual exhaust ('true' as mentioned earlier). But if we are to merge the two, I dont see any advantages between an X and a Y.

 

Clean G 4D, just give up. He obviously wont address the question head on and will dance around what you want, because he just doesnt have the answers. He'll continue to lecture with his "cut and pastes" and his "trust me because I know, and I'm not wrong because I also know that I'm right".

Just forget this windbag and ask Gurgen when you see him tomorrow. If anyone can answer your question, its the Mad Scientist

 

Thats right. Companies like JIC, DC, and Tanabe have dual exhausts systems that just give the illusion of being a single. riiiiiiight. They all have larger piping single exhausts

Its not as costly as you make it sound to create a large piping single exhaust setup. All you'd need is a Y pipe, larger piping, resonator (if needed), and a muffler. Less material, less costly, and less weight.

 

^ yea i guess. But I may not be going to the meet...

The usage of 'true' seems to be subjective... and probably used to aid marketing by some companies.

I will make another paint masterpiece after lunch to demonstrate my questions regarding X, Y, and even H pipes.

Cost is an understandable advantage for dual exhausts, and I would see why many companies would go this route. Especially since differences between gains in well designed exhausts are minimal.

To know a system works better is one thing, to believe it works better is another. Most consumers only believe in the products they use because they have faith in the manufacturer. Faith and beliefs are based on assumptions. Do I know, without question, if a dual is better? Not quite, but I'm getting there. I do believe it to be better, but thats entirely different...

There are other details regarding this that I am curious about, but they are beyond the exhaust mechanics we have discussed here and run in the realm of physics. If you want to have a try at them, let me know and I will post them up.

 

Maybe, with more materials, the manufacturer has more parts/cost and more profit (with a proportional profit margin).

 

Large pipes are available. ie.. for large engine and truck applications. Just have to think outside the box. Question is would these larger dia pipes actually do anything? IMHO anything over 2.75" - 3" might not to anything

 

Couple of observations here -

First, Rick. I used to really respect you man. But it seems with each post I lose a little more respect. This guy really was asking some honest questions, and watching in the weeds, so to speak, he's right in that you never answered his questions originally.

I understand your point about one doing one's own research, but there's absolutely nothing wrong with inquisitive people sparking debate - in fact, that's good for every body. Believe me, I'm a programmer, and I hate it when another guy just comes up and asks "how do you do this?". Take some time to figure it out yourself, and if you still have questions, then ask me. I'm with you there man. But he wasn't asking general questions, he was asking *specific* questions, like what characteristics of a ypipe make it inferior to an xpipe or hpipe, and the question about diameter for a single versus dual.

Next, you really didn't need to stoop the the level of being childish yourself. If he's being the child, let him continue to be. If it's one sided, the behavior will be more apparent.

If that offends you, then, sorry. Needed to be said.

And to the other guy:
I like your questions. Thought-provoking, at least for me. *BUT* - Rick was right, in a way. He suggested that you search. Later on in the thread he posted some information that you found yourself when searching; why didn't you just search to begin with, post links to the relevant material, and reference snippets for discussion?

Regardless, the behavior of both parties just became a negative feedback loop...

It's really sad that all this crap poluted the thread; there's good information in here.