I've searched, I promise. Maybe I'm blind or I need to enhance my searching skills but I couldn't find a solid answer.

I live in Arizona and it's extremely hot here. I've read several things regarding the jwt pop charger not being very heat friendly. What exactly can happen if you run the car hard with a pop charger in high heat? Should I just consider my other options and avoid the risks?

Also, what other intakes should I be looking at that will be comparable to the pop charger?

 

feels like you have a parachute attached to your car

 

The best I can explain why it's bad in my own words, and this is why I've always been against most short ram intakes and "cold air" boxes -

Keep in mind that cooler air has more density, more oxygen, which means a better means of burning fuel, which equals more efficient power.

Now, the biggest problem with an open intake in the engine bay is heat soak. Having the car in 100°F weather isn't going to help much as the air coming in isn't cool to begin with, but the bigger culprit of heat soak is all the heat from the motor being trapped in the engine bay.

The best way I can explain heat soak is that it's like letting your new polyurethane part sit in the hot sun all day. When you get back to it after half a day in the scorching sun, the entire thing is hot or at least warm to the touch. Only for these parts, it's your motor, not the sun. Cooler air will help a lot, but if your intake is constantly exposed to the hot air, nothing matters.

My gripe with most of the "cold air" boxes is that they are either made of metal, or are open boxes which are basically just a wall between the intake and motor. Yes, it might help keep direct heat off of the filter and parts, but it still doesn't really help protect against heat soak from the heat trapped in the engine bay.

What's wrong with metals, you ask? While some metals may conduct heat better, taking more to heat up, they tend to retain more heat than plastics. So the fact that some cars have plastic intake manifolds isn't always because the manufacturer cheaped out in manufacturing, it's just part of the design to make the car more efficient (ok, they still kinda cheaped out, and yes, I just made up my own word).

Now what makes the stock box good is that the filter is fully encapsulated, and draws in air from the outside from two different inlets, so your intake is encompassed in cooler air, rather than a combination of both cooler and hotter air. And I also like the fact that it's made of plastic... a thick wall of plastic. But I would argue that the inlets can be a bit bigger for better airflow.

Are there other solutions to this dilemma? Yes. But a lot of people here who just love their "stock" look, or "all show, no go" will consider it "rice".

 

I actually did some basic testing/monitoring with the popcharger kit and it's not bad at all.

I have a fully stock 05 350z and a modded G35 with a popcharger and the temperature difference between the two are actually negligible. While moving i have yet to observe any meaningful difference between the two, but at a stop the pop charger temperature rises slightly faster. One thing I must say though is that the JWT heatshield does help with preventing heat soak. If you ever felt the air that passed through the radiator then you will know what I am talking about. Turn the AC on, which i'm sure you do living in AZ, and that air will be much hotter.

 

Well, we don't live in extremely hot temps like AZ, but I've already measured a slight loss in power, and a huge difference in acceleration with the POP Charger on hot days, as compared to stock and Nismo's true CAI

 

Awesome post, thanks for the info. It definitely makes sense and that's what I was afraid of living in such heat.

When looking for an aftermarket intake living in such climates is there really any way to get around it? Is there an intake out there that will have a decent sound while not losing performance? The heat here in the summer is really brutal and I would hate to feel that significant of a loss in acceleration simply because the intake doesn't manage heat well.

 

Dofu, So you did some dyno testing between pop charger, stock and nismo cai while simulating different ambient temperature? This is one test that I've been very interested to see but wasn't able to find. It would nice if you can share your research. The closest thing I've seen to this is motordyne's testing on how air temperature affects performance, but this was solely related to pulled timing from the ECU and not an intake's capability to avoid ingesting hot air.

 

Like Dofu said, the coldest air your car will be able to take in is the ambient one. This is why comparing the temperature of the air your car ingests to ambient makes more sense. This will measure how efficient your intake setup is at blocking extra heat. BTW with the jwt kit and under movement, the G35 two OE ducts will create a more positive pressure in the area where the air filter is at which will prevent the heat from the radiator or engine to come in.

 

Sorry for the ignorance and my lack of knowledge about cars, but are you saying that the JWT is still a viable option even in the heat?

Are there any intakes available that incorporates the encompassing filter like the stock intake does in order to avoid taking in so much heat?

I now understand basically why the JWT isn't all that great in insanely warm climates, but I'm still trying to find a solution. Would the best option be to just stick with stock in such temps? I really don't know all of the decent intake options available so I'm not sure if there's a good alternative.

 

I'm not quite sure what type of testing equipment you've used, but I've used a datalogger and tested the following:

1) OEM
2) OEM setup with the Powerduct and over radiator snorkel removed. Essentially opening the box up about 50%, but still way less than your standard Popcharger setup.

On an 80 degree or so night, on a warm engine:

OEM
1) Stop for 30 seconds - 105 degrees
2) Roll at 30mph - 85 degrees
3) Roll at 45mph - 80 degrees

Modified OEM setup
1) Stop for 30 seconds - 140 degrees
2) Roll at 30mph - 100 degrees
3) Roll at 45mph - 80 degrees

So yes, at speed, the POP setups do fine. The kicker is from a stop. They are sucking in some seriously hot air and if you race on the drag strip or drive the daily grind, the car is going to feel seriously boggy at lower speeds and from a stop.

 

Like you the only thing I used was the data that comes from the OBD2 port, so I used a cipher to extract that information out for graphing, but on a daily basis i use a Greddy Infotouch.

The testing I did was quite simple.

Test subjects
1. OEM on stock 350z
2. JWT on G35 with heatshield
3. JWT on G35 without heatshield and powerduct

Test cases
1. Highway cruising at 65mph
2. Stop for one minute
3. highway cruising at 65mph with ac at max
4. Stop for one minute with ac at max

Logged parameter
1. Intake temp
2. Water temp
3. Ignition timing
4. Speed

The conclusion of my test is what I stated above. Not a significant difference in temp between Stock and Popcharger with heatshield and powerduct. The pop charger does heat up slightly faster, like i also pointed out, at idle but nothing alarming. Once I am home from my business trip I will show you a plot of how the temperature increases over time during the two 1-minute at idle if you want. In terms of how heat affects power, here is the test that Tony did.

http://i352.photobucket.com/albums/r...ratureVsHP.jpg

BTW, do you a pic of your modified air box, curious to see where you opened it up.

 

Not really... dynos were on randomly different days in different conditions. I want to say it was a/f, but for all I remember it could have been the timing, and maybe the power was off too.

But the way I see it, it would be similar to doing too many pulls on the dyno, where your engine bay is just heat soaked, and each pull you do, you're just losing power. Granted, you should be getting more airflow to push out the heat when you're moving as compared to the fans, but when the ambient temp is over 100°, I really doubt it's going to help cool down the engine bay that much anymore.

Either way, it's not just been proven time and time again, but it's a fact that your motor will make more power with cooler air. Your exposed intake filter sucking in the hot air from the engine bay isn't going to help here. Everything you do to keep intake temps down will help, and that's why Motordyne has the ISO Thermal gasket, and companies like Hondata make an intake manifold heatshield gasket, all to keep the intake plenum/manifold cooler.

 

I've read good things about the R2C intake. It appears to me that the hood blocks off the engine heat similar to the stock intake.

Would an intake like this one still produce the little bit of power and sound that the JWT does?

 

where do I buy the r2c intake?

 

Truth, and I've made that argument for years. When the temps are high (70s+), the available oxygen is lower, baro pressure is usually lower, and manifold is heat soaked, so the car is going to be noticably slower. IMO, wrapping intakes in heat reflective foil and adding things like iso-thermal gaskets is pretty pointless because you're talking about reducing temps only 5 to 10 degrees. When ambient and underhood temps are already way high, a 5% reduction isn't going to make much difference, if any.

As for the best intakes, if aftermarket setups were truely benefical for the VQ35 then Motordyne would be making them. Tony has tested numerous intake setups, including Z-tubes and various levels of modification, and the reality is the stock setup is ideal for both power and driveability. MD sees not point in marketing intakes if they don't make power. Just something to consider.