Lets go off the script:
Me:
"Hey Tony, I live in winter climates and bought the copper Iso thermal kit. Do I really need to run this copper piece? I don't understand because the TB already has a fluid line through it."

Tony:
"Jordan, you definitely need to use this kit. The temperature is largely reduced in the upper plenum. Enough that the TB can freeze open during winter climates. I am a retired rocket scientist, I'm not trying to make money here off a faux product. If it wasn't necessary I wouldn't sell it."

Does this answer your question?

 

no it doesnt because i never said he was trying to make something that is unnessary. My point is that it isnt required, its a bonus piece that makes his product perform better as a whole package. If you think the point of that piece is to make up for heat loss from the aramid gasket than you have missed the whole point of the mod. The aramid gasket lowers the temperature of the plenum which is a good start but it is still heated by coolant lines nearthe tb. The next level of the kit has a valve to stop coolant flow to the upper plenum right at the throttle body which keeps the plenum cooler because you arent heating the hole upper plenum just to keep the tb warm. The premium level of the kit, this one, uses this copper isolation gasket which isolates the plenum from the coolant lines once you removd them from the manifold but allows you to keep the tb warm by relocating them to the copper. The tb isnt going to stick in cold weather simply from an aramid gasket and spacer install, the plenum just wont be as cool as it can be by relocating those coolant lines.

 

Effectively its just isolating the upper plenum, okay.

Why would Tony say you NEED this then? I told him I had no intention of installing the CCV.

 

Why would nissan put a tb warming water jacket in if the tb stayed warm because of heat through the lower plenum. All this information on what each piece is for is pretty clear from the 4 questions in he FAQ section of his website

 

One reason would be emissions (marketing). A cold, freshly started engine runs less clean until its warmed up.

 

So are you buying that the copper gasket is the only way to maintain tb temperature after an aramid gasket? the water jacket 10mm further back in the intake manifold is suddenly not adequate because the heat loss from the upper manifold is so great that the stock configuration cant keep up even at normal earth winter temperatures?

Or could it possibly be because some people dont understand this mod and would likely forget to open the CCV and sue him in the event they were more stupid and managed to get into an accident or cause damage?

 

^WTF are you talking about??? You asked why Nissan used an OEM TB warmer. Thats all I responded too...

 

The TB is subzero without it! How else does it warm up?

Mr. You See I'm a Beach, I do agree with you about the science behind the copper piece. It is not all that necessary. But firstworldchaos tells me I should slap it on there and be happy.

Also, yes. The CCV only works for the user that installs it. What about all of us that share our car with a wife, friend, dog, etc.? My dog can't change the CCV switch, let alone locate it. When it comes time to sell the car, the CCV cannot be removed (pulling it out and presto style) like the CCV could be.

 

Look im not trying to start an argument but our discussion is about the requirement to use the copper iso thermal gasket and how it could possibly be the only way to keep the tb at temperature after an aramid gasket install. I am insisting that it isnt a requirement but is advisable if you want the best performance from the kit. I dont want this new guy panicing thinking his tb is going to hang wide open some winter because he didnt want to install it. If Tony wants to chime in an explain that i am wrong, then I will listen but all previous discussions over the years and everything on his website doesnt say anything about a potential danger in not installing a copper iso thermal gasket after an aramid install.

The tb will still warm up based on the factory water jacket. There was no CCV installed... remember?

 

EDIT:
With the aramid gasket installed, I could understand the intake manifold is acting as a heat soak when utilizing those coolant lines. I don't have that gasket installed so I don't know how well it works. So the question, is the coolant temperature going through the stock lines enough to prevent the throttle body from freezing in sub-freezing temps?

 

Ah, thats the issue . Plus installing the gasket gives me like 10 hp from increased throttle body space.


Tony must have misinterpreted me then.

ANSWER?:

You do NOT need the copper piece, although the heat soak from the TB to the Plenum could be blocked off. TB temp will be same with Isothermal copper kit and stock line.

 

haha that's all i was trying to get across from the beginning. Now if Tony comes on here and says that the upper plenum is such a large heat sink that the water jacket can't keep the tb warm, then I guess the warning on the model with the CCV should say, "hey don't venture to canada in the winter even if the valve is open"


BTW for the OP and newbs reading this, UE is kidding about the copper adding 10hp due to it being a spacer.

 

So a few things going on and I'll try to summarize everything above:

1) You start with a basic spacer, and can then add the optional "Iso Thermal" upgrade. The Iso Thermal portion consists of an Aramid thermal isolating gasket that is installed between the lower plenum and intake manifold. Then you have either a Coolant Control Valve (CCV) OR a Copper Throttle Body heater (the part in question in the OP).

2) With JUST the gasket installed, heat transfer from the block into the intake plenum is reduced. However stock coolant lines are still warming up the upper plenum near the throttle body.

3) The Copper throttle body heater is a "set-and-forget" item. Coolant lines are removed from the upper plenum and re-routed through the copper piece. This allows the throttle body to remain properly warmed up while the rest of the intake plenum remains cool. IE: you get the maximum benefit of the Aramid gasket in keeping plenum temps down.

4) The CCV, if used, is spliced into the coolant lines leading to the upper plenum. If turned off, ALL coolant is blocked from the upper plenum and everything runs nice and cool. HOWEVER, one has to remember to turn the valve back ON when the weather gets cold to avoid freezing the throttle body. This is why the copper is typically preferred because again, it's set and forget.

5) Brings us back to item #2, if you skip using either the CCV or Copper TB warmer, heat transfer from the block is reduced, but the upper plenum is still being warmed up by coolant lines. This is "okay" however you're not getting the maximum benefit of the full Iso Thermal upgrade that YOU PAID FOR. (You're still getting a performance benefit from the spacer btw, just not the benefits from reduced intake temps)


I just have a spacer, but if I paid for the Iso Thermal upgrade, I'd make sure to installed all the parts. The aramid gasket under the lower plenum is the hardest part to change, that throttle body warmer should've been cake. Though, some shops are lazy. I've seen a picture on here not too long ago where the copper was installed, but the coolant lines were left in the stock location... wtf.

If you decide not to have that part installed, I'll buy it off you.

 

Thanks for making that clear LOST! (Shouts name)