ok so its about 2AM this morning taking friends home from the bar (i was DD). Im on Capital and tully about to make a left. im at the stop light. waiting, i looked down at my gps and the people in the car are like GO its green..
So i take off and popped the clutch Non intentialy ( i was sitting closer cus i had a tall people in car) so in the turn my tires squealed and broke loose for a second or 2... i noticed 2 cops on the left by the mercadies dealership, so i made sure not to go fast i was doing 45.
I then seen the cop turn out and come twords me on other side of island so i figured ahh crap... so i kept my pace didnt speed he finally pulled me over... soo now he says he paced me doing 60 (I google the exact spots, its total of 0.30 miles is that a far enough distance from him being at a dead stop out of his car to in his car and catch up to me to pace me accurately?) he claims at the light i was doing 45 minimum when i hit the courner?? WTF if i was doing 45 on the outside turn, and my tires let loose i would 1 either hit the pole, or 2 get my car fully side ways facing the island therefore being at a almost dead stop from slamming on breaks unless i counter steer and give it more gas which im not stupid enough to do so at the stop light area in SJ seeing how rice rockets/racers meet up at that inn and out or use to atleast.....alot of cops in the general area... he said he could have impounded my car for 30 days for "racing" but he used some other word.. but he was being nice and gave me a speeding ticket instead... he wrote i drive a infinity skyline, on the ticket, and gave me a VC 22350 Basic Speed Law ticket. Is there any way to fight this? i have 3 witness's knowing i was completely stopped at the light... he said i can try to fight it in count if i wish but him and another officer who witnessed (its not on citation) will be there to testify and he said the court may give me a another fine if they tell him what really happened? Any advise from anyone?

I looked up the code VC 22350. No person shall drive a vehicle upon a highway at a speed greater than is reasonable or prudent having due regard for weather, visibility, the traffic on, and the surface and width of, the highway, and in no event at a speed which endangers the safety of persons or property.

is a Street considered a "highway"?

 

This has been covered by chippie before yes the street is considered a part of a "Highway". And you will not be persecuted negatively if you decide to contest the ticket in court. 1) You pay the fine and accept a point on your driving record, or 2) you pay the fine and go to traffic school to not have the point show up on your driving record, or 3) you contest the ticket by way of a in court hearing or by written declaration

Keep in mind that it's your word against the officer of the law. I have never seen a LEO come in with another officer for a traffic violation because that would mean two (2) officers on overtime to show up to court to take care of 1 minor speeding ticket

You know more than I do the details of the citation, note the time, day, name of citing officer, location, the exact occurrence in detail, and write up a letter of written declaration.

This is my theory in the whole ordeal and it has worked for me several times in the past. It has been confirmed to me that when you set a court date to contest the ticket the yes it is true that the officer will most likely come in on their off day to face you in court. But guess what, by doing so they are getting paid overtime to do this, so why not go in for an hour or two, right?

Now, keeping that in mind, if you decide to fight the citation by way of written declaration (the letter you write represents you as a person in the courtroom) your chances of winning have increased indefinitely.
1) The officer will need to write up a counter letter to prove to the judge you are guilty of the said violation. Basically, this means homework in the eyes of a traffic officer how often do you see traffic officers writing up a full report while in their patrol car? I've never seen any and I sure as hell know that they 99% would not do it at home because guess what? They don't get overtime to write up the report at home. When they are off the clock they are off the clock unless you really do something to **** them off and they remember you vividly then you're a$$'ed out.
2) In the courtroom the judge may not grant you leniency because a) he does not want to embarrass the citing officer that works for the judge and he will have to show leniency to every other person in the courtroom. Keeping this in mind if you write a letter he has the ability to read the two letters in the privacy of his chambers. (That is if the officer even bothers to write a letter)
3) The chances that the citing officer even remembers the details from a few jotted down notes is very low. When you receive the courtesy letter from the court house, you want to wait until the last 3 days before the court order appearance and call into the court clerk. You then pay the fine and inform the clerk after paying the fine you would like to exercise your rights and proceed with contesting the violation by way of written declaration. They will mail you a packet that will ask you the details of the incident, include any pictures of the location or diagrams or the general area. Then wait until the last few days before the letter is due and then you can mail it in priority mail or hand it in personally. Reason why I stress waiting until the last few days is because this gives you time for the citing officer to forget details of his interaction with you. From the day you receive the ticket you roughly wait 2 weeks for the courtesy letter to show up in your mail box. From when the courtesy letter is received the date on the letter for your court appearance will most likely be another 2 weeks this equates to 4 weeks = 1 month of "forgetting time." When you proceed to contest the ticket by the letter that gives you another month of "forgetting time" which equates to 2 months of time for the officer to forget you. And during the 2 months he would have cited other people and forget details about his interaction with you. Do not extend your date as doing this, you will forfeit your right to contest this ticket by way of written declaration. This is theory crafting, personally I would take this looking at it like it's homework, so would CHP, or any city cop, logically I could be out catching other traffic violators and make more state revenue rather than sitting at my desk writing up a report to counter your letter and not make revenue for the state. And to me I find it hiliariously funny that they say there is no quota when I clearly see at least the area i'm in. The beginning of each month there will be hella cops on the freeway or city citing people for a few days. And after that I don't see a single LEO on the road until the beginning of next month... coincidence perhaps, but again this is my own theory crafting. See where I'm going with this? If you win the case, you get your money back in a form of a check from the court house. You take that check deposit it back into your bank account and spend it on go fast mods for your car =). Hope this helps

In addition, if you receive the result from the court house and they say you are guilty of the traffic violation. HAHAHA, you can exercise your right by way of Trial De Novo - which is a in court retrial because you felt that the decision was not of your liking and that you feel you could better express your case in person to the judge. But what do I know... I'm a law abiding citizen that doesn't violate the traffic laws... =P Hope that helps... I'm sure that G35Chippie has his 2 cents as well...

 

Geeez... theyre STILL scoping out that area????

New Infiniti dealership going up on that intersection too

 

sad thing is i know the cop would remember me cus 1, im young (22), and 2 1 of the people in the car failed to show in court for a dui he had? so he had a warrent... dumb ***.... i still wanna know is .30 miles is enough to get a proper pace speed seeing how he was out of his car, by time he ran in his car and caught up.

 

So many things to discuss. First of all, were you turning from Cap Ex. to go east on Tully? What IS the speed limit on Tully? Which direction was the officer(s) initially? What was his speed? Is he certified in RADAR/LIDAR? Visual estimation? Training and experience? How far did he pace you? Calibration of the speedo? When did he first notice you? Hmmm....just a few questions you could ask in court maybe? Questions I have been asked.

As far as 22350 goes, that is the section we cite for posted speed limits, other than those designated as MAXIMUM speed limits. What did the officer write in the safe speed box? There should be three speeds writen in the citation: Est. Speed, P.F./Max Speed (with P.F. circled), and Safe Speed. In order to cite this section, the officer must prove what the safe speed for the conditions was. At 2am, even if you were doing 60 in a 45, you may be able to prove that 60 was a safe speed. Traffic upon the roadway? Pedestrians? Bicyclists? Clear and dry?

22351. (a) The speed of any vehicle upon a highway not in excess of
the limits specified in Section 22352 or established as authorized
in this code is lawful unless clearly proved to be in violation of
the basic speed law.
(b) The speed of any vehicle upon a highway in excess of the prima
facie speed limits in Section 22352 or established as authorized in
this code is prima facie unlawful unless the defendant establishes by
competent evidence that the speed in excess of said limits did not
constitute a violation of the basic speed law at the time, place and
under the conditions then existing.

Keep in mind, since this is not a RADAR/LIDAR ticket, a traffic and engineering survey is not admissible. The officer doesn't need one for a pacing ticket.

As far as upgrading the violation in court, not gonna happen. You can bring your passengers to court with you. And as far as spinning the tires, that can be an exhibition of speed. Misdemeanor 23109(c). That could get you thrown in jail for a few hours and get your car impounded.

23109.2. (a) (1) Whenever a peace officer determines that a person
was engaged in any of the activities set forth in paragraph (2), the
peace officer may immediately arrest and take into custody that
person and may cause the removal and seizure of the motor vehicle
used in that offense in accordance with Chapter 10 (commencing with
Section 22650). A motor vehicle so seized may be impounded for not
more than 30 days.
(2) (A) A motor vehicle speed contest, as described in subdivision
(a) of Section 23109.
(B) Reckless driving on a highway, as described in subdivision (a)
of Section 23103.
(C) Reckless driving in an offstreet parking facility, as
described in subdivision (b) of Section 23103.
(D) Exhibition of speed on a highway, as described in subdivision
(c) of Section 23109.

Read my sig for a definition of a highway. A freeway is a highway, but a highway may not always be a freeway.

 

Cap and Tully, one of my favorite areas Chippie covered the violations well, but Paradox has a wild imagination.

First of all, and the most important part, that officer was doing you a favor. Nobody was there but you and those officers, so I can't speak on the situation, but from what you wrote, he very well could have cited you for 23109 CVC and taken your car for 30 days. Look at this way, you are facing a couple hundred dollar fine and maybe a point on your record vs $1400 in impound and storage fees and 2 points on your record. I don't know about Chippie, but when I give someone a break and they try to bone me later, I stop giving people the benefit of the doubt.

Now to address Paradox:

Going to court is not necessarily overtime. The courts generally are good about scheduling the date on a day we work and if not, we can request to have it moved. Only on days off is it overtime. Most agencies in Santa Clara County are required to go to any form of court, so the chances of the officer showing up are very high.

Anything we do at home, is overtime. I don't know why you think we would do it at home though. We get paid alot of money to write reports every day, that letter would be insignificant over the course of our day, it would take you more time and effort to write.

Only S.O. Deputies work in the courts, and officers don't 'work' for the judge.

You may be surprised to find out, most officers don't just sit around and look for traffic violations to hand out tickets. I love when people think we have quotas considering some officers haven't written a ticket in months. If you think he's going to forget you or that stop, good luck, it probably won't happen especially considering your friend had a DUI warrant. Things like that stick out.

San Jose is a large department with many different specialized units. The reason you may see more officers in one area usually has to do with an issue that is going on in that area. Also our traffic unit patrols certain areas that have high accident and traffic complaint rates. That is probably what you are 'theory crafting.'

Did your friend get taken in on the warrant? If not, i'd make him split the fine and consider yourselves lucky it wasn't worse

 

If you need a hookup with traffic school PM ME. sux you got a ticket.

 

he didnt use radar or lidar, he didnt even have a visual, he tryed saying i turned at the light doing 45, when i was at a complete stop at the light cus it was red... so just with that said i know he wasnt paying attention.

I was on capital turning left on tully going twords the mountains, 2 cops had a guy pulled on the other side facing capital (lights were off so they might have just been taking a break bsing) next to the dealership (island blocking him from going straight across so he kept his lights off and was driving on other side of road to catch up to me.

Total distance from where he was to where i stopped was .30 miles. im just curious is that enough time to "pace" someone to say they were going 60? u figure he has to get in his car (he was in front of 2 cars his and another car), and make the u turn (what is that about 5-6seconds?), then speed up all within .30 miles so u figure .30miles @ 60mph is about 15seconds to where i was fully stopped at is the time frame (so minus the time he gets in his car were down to about 9-10seconds) plus the time to actually speed up and pace time would be about total of 3sec? this is if i was going 60, give or take the .05 mile to slow/pull over with hazords.

he put VC 22350 under desc its "basic speed law" for weather he put c/d/c
no other cars/bikes/pedestrians/traffic/ no nothing just me dropping a friend off at home.

 

I dont know about "quotas" per say since yall cant say if u do or dont but i know some departments weekly/monthly focus on certain things like duis, or drunk in public, etc. and focus mainly on that. (at least what a old NYPD friend told me)

as for my cousin/friend yes he did get taken in, there was 4 of us total in the car.

 

We can say whether or not we have quotas. We don't. They are illegal in the state of CA. But if I come back to the office after 12 1/2 hours of work with no activity, do you think the Sergeant is going to wonder what I've been doing all day? I probably won't have my job for very long. One of the major focuses in the CHP is reducing the Mileage Death Rate (MDR), which right now is 1.15 deaths per million miles of road driven. This is accomplished in three ways- Engineering, Education, and Enforcement. CALTRANS takes care of the first E, officers can help with the other two. So there is a reason we write tickets. I have investigated fatal collisions and assisted with countless others. It sucks. It takes me off of the road for a couple of days for follow up, typing and drawing factual diagrams.


As far as your situation, I can't prepare your testimony for you. But from some of the things you posted, it sounds like you may have figured it out already. And about pacing tactics, I won't go into that. That is not a topic in our policy for public knowledge. I'm sure SFGiant has the same policy.

 

Chippie again covered it well What he and I do tend to be very different by the nature of where we work, but all departments are generally the same.

I just post to educate everyone I can on what we do and dispel some of the myths and falsehoods I see spreading around like wildfire.

If you feel the need to fight it, do so, that is what makes this Country tick If you don't have a history of tickets and a long point record, my advice would be to save the time and money and do traffic school.

Good luck

 

Thank you for informing me... it's nice to know that there are some LEO's that care enough to explain the "unknown" to everyday normal people like myself.

 

I've had a very similar thing happen to me in San Francisco, where he pulled me over saying i was doing 75 down ocean ave, and then weaving wrecklessly through traffic, even though I was literally the only car on the street at 12:30 AM on a tuesday. He then gave me a BS ticket for not making a complete stop at a red before turning right, even though at that point he was a good 5 blocks behind me. Told me he could tow my car but is gonna be nice. I contested it in court, he never showed up. If the cop knows he bsed ur ticket chances are he probably won't show. I would say it's worth a try, if he shows you can always plead guilty and just take traffic school.

 

Also try fighting the fact that Skyline is written on there, you can prove you drive a G35 and don't even own a skyline and that the cop has absolutely no idea wtf he's talking about. I have friends that got off tickets because the cop wrote the wrong date, or car color, or anything.

 

oh chippie, forgot to answer this one, speed aprox is 60, P.F. Max. Spd. he didnt Circle any, but speed is 40 in there, and "safe" speed he put 40.

btw he took my keys from me and slammed them on the top of my car is this a common practice? he came up to me and said "turn off your car" and i said it already is off, so he said take the keys out of ignition so i did and he grabbed them from me and slammed them on top of my car which pissed me off...hes the "law" guess he can do as he wish's... and was like "now get out of the car" (so embarrassing) :-P