You missed what I said. I'm not necessarily claiming that it's all in your head in this case, only the possibility that the act of removing and re-installing the ground connections were responsible rather than the wires themselves.

 

I suppose he could disconnect them and see what happens. Simple thing

 

I also have always had a hard time believing that these grounding kits would help assuming the vehicle's factory wiring harness is intact. Normally I would just discount all these threads about them helping this or that.

But there are so many of them, and so many people swear by them - maybe the factory grounding is insufficient.

I understood when these things helped 10 year old civics that had corroded or completely missing ground cables - but it surprises me that they make a difference on a new nissan.

It would be interesting to measure potential across grounds at different points while driving and see if the factory grounding is bad. I haven't looked but I would expect there to be a good size braided cable running from the engine/tranny to the firewall. I don't know where the sensor grounds tie in, but they should be bolted to the engine fairly close to the sensors as well as having a ground wire running to the ecu which would also be grounded to the frame.

 

People have done this on our cars and measured no difference.

 

teh factory ground is sufficient, but not the best way to do it, beign it is grounded to the body frame, rather than teh engine. overall, teh only real advantage for teh grounding wires is for the battery and teh ecu, the others in the gordgee kit are unncessary, but i'm sure still improve grounding. I got the gordgee kit for the 6mt, and only major change is smoother idle, much more stable. Throttel response may have been improved, but i coudln't give a clear answer. Though, yea, it does look cool and it does improve SOMETHING, HAha. so why not?!

 

I also think that factory grounding wires are sufficient, however, I don't think that it's about electrical grounding at all. Gord sent me some info and theory that makes sense, and I've also spoken to a few of my friends that are electrical engineers and tech that seem to agree. Some thing to do with the signal.

It's like a high-def video signal. Electrically, any interconnect should do. But with basic cables, the signal is so bad that the video is almost unwatchable!!!

When a set like Monster Cables is connected, the results are truly amazing!

Gord, I know you've gone through this so many times over the years. But... could you post a few things again for the newbies?

 

A couple of years ago, I was also a skeptic. I thought "What the Hell", and decided to buy a Sun Auto Kit. I was so surprised, that I also thought it was placebo effect! Then I tried the Stillen, no real change, and I wasn't impressed with the quality.

I went with Grounding Gear since so many others said great things about it. I can honestly tell you, the difference, even over the others was noticeable. So much so that my wife (it's actually her car) thought I dropped an expensive mod into the car again without telling her! (So even "blind" testing shows improvements.)

For those that havn't yet, save your $$ on the others. Either do Gord's or don't bother. I've heard some that have done the e-bay specials that say they do nothing.

 

"Electrically" any interconnect doesn't always do. There is much theory around transmission lines, cross-talk, EM interference, etc. But these ground oil kits don't go replacing all of your signal / ground pairs with shielded cable. They're replacing a simple already oversized ground line with an even larger line. I'd love to hear someone BS some performance out of this from a ground return path analysis.

Yes and I'm sure that the copper in the cable that Gord is buying in mass and making a killing on is magically extra special compared to the rest of the copper in the world. Keep on truckin', ground wire fanboy.

 

As I said, I was also a skeptic, just as you are. I actually bought my first kit to prove to myself that this was snake-oil. I also convinced myself that it had to be placebo effect. It was others that hadn't even known that I did the wires, and the feedback that they gave that convinced me otherwise.

Most of your arguements are baseless, whether you believe it or not. You're knowledge of placebo effect and the notion of scientific process are questionable, and it sounds like you have a need to prove to others that you are correct. Looking up definitions of terms like "Empirical Data" (from another thread), and mis-using same to try to justify what you say does not validate your points, and you simply come across as....well, it's painfully obvious to me and I suspect others, however not to yourself.

I simply support this mod as I believe that others, skeptics such as I once was, would not otherwise try. It's a shame, as it truely is effective, much more so than mods that make more sense to "old school" modders like myself. Fortunately, I had a much more open mind than some.

BTW, the arguments that you make have been done innumerable times over the past few years on this board, and I assure you, none of the points you bring up are new.

Consistently however, more evidence shows that this "Snake-Oil" actually works, and you do no-one favors by trying to prove otherwise.

If the need to post repeatedly to show how much smarter you are than others is irrepressible, let me know which city you are in, and I can kindly refer you to a good therapist.

Again, please don't take this the wrong way (as I'm sure you will anyway based on your need to base-less name-calling), but if you can't let something go, maybe speak with your doctor, a pastor or someone you trust.

I believe you enjoy arguement for arguement's sake, and I do not wish to get dragged down to that level. This is one of the reasons that I rarely post in internet forums, knowing some of the types of personalities that frequent them.

BTW, don't miss the opportunity to feed your ego, and brag to your friends that you bested a physician on an internet forum.

Please have a good day!

 

Yes yes, I need help, blah blah blah. Cry me a river. I am confident in my opinions and state them as such, but if presented with a convincing argument will happily change them. If this makes you uncomfortable, don't read them. If I repeatedly seem to make you feel so inferior unintentionally, perhaps it is you who needs to seek help from a good therapist? Or perhaps a pastor. Someone who slings bullsh!t for a living may even be able to help out with explaining the holy ground wires.

And, in my humble opinion, my arguments are not "baseless". They're based around technical insight and intuition that I've acquired over the years working with such magical things as "grounding" and "signals". It is the grounding wire fanboys that have something to prove, not those who hold the status quo. And they need to do a better job than "I can feel it, I really can." If one claims "better signals" (they better define that, is it less noise, less ground bounce, or what?) then just simply measure signal traces before and after the ground wire replacement and show the differences. Is something other than "I can feel it" or dyno gains within run to run variance too much to ask? I can't be the only one that thinks this is just ridiculous.

 

Why do you need to measure that your AT shifts better after the grounding wire application when it does?

 

You're right, who needs any unbiased evidence when you can base your opinions on simply what people think they feel? Excellent point, end of debate.

 

I agree. Anyone who does a performance mod with no empirical data behind it is, in my mind, a fool. Which would justify the old phrase "a fool and his money are easily parted."

 

No. I have them. The improvement was observable after having driven it without for over a year. I don't need a data device to tell me shifting was faster. It was. You obviously do as would be the nature of your profession. Nothing wrong with that just don't discount people's experiences so out of hand.

 

What, Munchee, was being measured?

This topic will be discussed on SCR (Sports Car Revolution) over the next weeks as they put a ground kit on a G35C. Not sure that this is a 5AT and they plan to put a lot of work into it. They also have a G35X that they are putting intake and wheels and springs on. Great project for us to see on TV. While the argument continues no matter what, I got $100 bucks if they have a 5AT that they LOOOOVE the ground kit. I sure hop Gordgee get thier business but they'll use Nismo if they make a kit.

Also Gordgee is a Thereapist - I think he has a PHD in fact. Munchee should look him up.