Sad news from California Speedway
I agree with Clint's analysis on this, having driven on that track four times now in the past year. And while my supercharged g does not get to the speeds that Ben's "supercar" Carrera GT achieved, it certainly gets to about 120mph at the incident point before time to lift and brake for the ensuing turn. If he was into it with purpose it is very possible that he was doing 150mph+ in that car.
Like Clint, as a fellow track hound this type of information gets to you within hours from your cadre of buddies, and immediately there is not only a sharing in the grief and agony of the loss that stays with you (will any of us forget our fellow G driver Frank Steeves and his slide on city streets into a light pole that ended his life?) but a laser like focus on getting the facts and meticulously recreating the events to understand what happened and why. This is not easy because everything that transpires in such an event by definition happens within at most a few seconds from beginning to end, and it is clouded by emotion and differing perspectives in the reports. It often takes some time and care to accurately get it pieced together. (Witness the one well intended report in this thread of a "cresting of the hill" by the Porsche .....on a track that is as flat as a board on the infield. No bashing, just an illustration that misinformation can come to someone, and be repeated, and it slows down the process, and of course it is normal for that to happen and it must be expected).
This could not have happened with a single error. It took a minimum of two.
The first is that the track marshall had to wave on the Ferrari. If there was a track/pit marshal. No marshal, no entry. You wait. But one cannot jump to the conclusion it was his/her error right away. Was that his mistake, or did he get an all clear from the corner worker on the radio at the top of the straight? Or on a day when they had all those exotic high powered cars did they not have a worker up at the turn before the entrance to respond to a call? That is a critical position to have posted because with the acceleration and top speed of a collection of supercars, the track/pit marshall should not only visually look him-herself, but radio back to the corner worker...every time I have entered the track running the Roval there the marshall has done that, and you better believe I am watching to be sure he/she does it. And yes there has been a worker there because romping down the front straight speeds of 140mph are common and that comes up on your furry little butt REAL FAST. So there is one factor. It is not just the posting of the track/pit marshal, but the posting of the corner worker and the quality of their communication.
The second is the driver entering the track. It is his responsibility to merge into traffic safely. This is not an easy or casual thing. With a harness on and helmet, you cannot turn your head around and look out the back, nor are you inclined to do so when you are accelerating with some spirit onto the track to get up to a safe speed. You have to use your mirrors, and rear visibility in both the GT and Ferrari are not outstanding. You almost want to have independently movable eyes like a chameleon lizard, with one out front and one bouncing to your outside and inside rear view mirrors. Maybe he just did not see, or did not appreciate the relative speeds, which can be hard to do with mirrors. Remember also, there is much greater safety with comparable speed between vehicles. Going 60 mph at track entry with a guy bearing down on you at 150 mph is indeed like standing still and having someone go by at 90mph, and that is trouser soiling scary speed differential. You might as well be parked. So when you enter the track, you better be getting on it hard. Was the ferrari a little pokey?
Third, is the position of the entry to the track problematically designed such as to create an undue risk of this collision? Typically entry points are at the point on the track where it is most likely to have a matched or compatible speed, AND a driving line that can be safely separated from the main flow. (At Laguna Seca one of the great things about that track is safe ingress and egress from the track, clear visibility of the entering car by the track car, and lower speeds at both points. There you enter after turn 2, the Andretti hairpin, and on the left while the track cars are at track out on the right. If you enter properly your speed and that of the track car will be about identical as you reach the merge point of your driving lines at track left and begin to brake for turn 3. Exit is between turn 10 and turn 11 on the left, while approach to turn 11 is on the right, leaving plenty of room off line to brake straight line and take the turn out from the track. In other words, it is as safe and well designed as one can expect anywhere. Entrance and exit at Buttonwillow are similarly outstanding IMHO. I am not a huge fan of the entry at Big Willow Springs at the end of the big front straight, though exit is better.) But what about CS? Exit at Cal Speedway on the Roval is excellent for high speed running, it is designed for the NASCAR series. Entrance is dicier, because it is at the end of the front straight where the speeds are so high, but there is plenty of room if you pay attention and STAY LOW AND INSIDE all the way around the Roval and watch the mirror as you accelerate all the way through. If you do that, you can easily see if there is anyone approaching (in no small part to the high bank which improves visibility in your mirrors), and if there is somebody, you give them the line and hold back on merging out to take turn 3. Because by then the speeds should be down to 60mph or even a touch slower and you both have maneuver options. You get a real good panoramic view in those mirrors and a feel for closing speed too, precisely because of that huge sweeping turn. The only point you have that is potentially bad is where on the Roval the track car is coming down to hit his exit apex low down before tracking out to the wall, and he is going like a rocket, so if you make sure that you do NOT go on track before the apex point you should be in very good shape safety wise...pay attention to that spot on the track when you enter. The other good thing about that entry is that the track car has an incredible view of any car entering the track and lots of time to make decisions and adjustments to his line safely.
Like Clint, as a fellow track hound this type of information gets to you within hours from your cadre of buddies, and immediately there is not only a sharing in the grief and agony of the loss that stays with you (will any of us forget our fellow G driver Frank Steeves and his slide on city streets into a light pole that ended his life?) but a laser like focus on getting the facts and meticulously recreating the events to understand what happened and why. This is not easy because everything that transpires in such an event by definition happens within at most a few seconds from beginning to end, and it is clouded by emotion and differing perspectives in the reports. It often takes some time and care to accurately get it pieced together. (Witness the one well intended report in this thread of a "cresting of the hill" by the Porsche .....on a track that is as flat as a board on the infield. No bashing, just an illustration that misinformation can come to someone, and be repeated, and it slows down the process, and of course it is normal for that to happen and it must be expected).
This could not have happened with a single error. It took a minimum of two.
The first is that the track marshall had to wave on the Ferrari. If there was a track/pit marshal. No marshal, no entry. You wait. But one cannot jump to the conclusion it was his/her error right away. Was that his mistake, or did he get an all clear from the corner worker on the radio at the top of the straight? Or on a day when they had all those exotic high powered cars did they not have a worker up at the turn before the entrance to respond to a call? That is a critical position to have posted because with the acceleration and top speed of a collection of supercars, the track/pit marshall should not only visually look him-herself, but radio back to the corner worker...every time I have entered the track running the Roval there the marshall has done that, and you better believe I am watching to be sure he/she does it. And yes there has been a worker there because romping down the front straight speeds of 140mph are common and that comes up on your furry little butt REAL FAST. So there is one factor. It is not just the posting of the track/pit marshal, but the posting of the corner worker and the quality of their communication.
The second is the driver entering the track. It is his responsibility to merge into traffic safely. This is not an easy or casual thing. With a harness on and helmet, you cannot turn your head around and look out the back, nor are you inclined to do so when you are accelerating with some spirit onto the track to get up to a safe speed. You have to use your mirrors, and rear visibility in both the GT and Ferrari are not outstanding. You almost want to have independently movable eyes like a chameleon lizard, with one out front and one bouncing to your outside and inside rear view mirrors. Maybe he just did not see, or did not appreciate the relative speeds, which can be hard to do with mirrors. Remember also, there is much greater safety with comparable speed between vehicles. Going 60 mph at track entry with a guy bearing down on you at 150 mph is indeed like standing still and having someone go by at 90mph, and that is trouser soiling scary speed differential. You might as well be parked. So when you enter the track, you better be getting on it hard. Was the ferrari a little pokey?
Third, is the position of the entry to the track problematically designed such as to create an undue risk of this collision? Typically entry points are at the point on the track where it is most likely to have a matched or compatible speed, AND a driving line that can be safely separated from the main flow. (At Laguna Seca one of the great things about that track is safe ingress and egress from the track, clear visibility of the entering car by the track car, and lower speeds at both points. There you enter after turn 2, the Andretti hairpin, and on the left while the track cars are at track out on the right. If you enter properly your speed and that of the track car will be about identical as you reach the merge point of your driving lines at track left and begin to brake for turn 3. Exit is between turn 10 and turn 11 on the left, while approach to turn 11 is on the right, leaving plenty of room off line to brake straight line and take the turn out from the track. In other words, it is as safe and well designed as one can expect anywhere. Entrance and exit at Buttonwillow are similarly outstanding IMHO. I am not a huge fan of the entry at Big Willow Springs at the end of the big front straight, though exit is better.) But what about CS? Exit at Cal Speedway on the Roval is excellent for high speed running, it is designed for the NASCAR series. Entrance is dicier, because it is at the end of the front straight where the speeds are so high, but there is plenty of room if you pay attention and STAY LOW AND INSIDE all the way around the Roval and watch the mirror as you accelerate all the way through. If you do that, you can easily see if there is anyone approaching (in no small part to the high bank which improves visibility in your mirrors), and if there is somebody, you give them the line and hold back on merging out to take turn 3. Because by then the speeds should be down to 60mph or even a touch slower and you both have maneuver options. You get a real good panoramic view in those mirrors and a feel for closing speed too, precisely because of that huge sweeping turn. The only point you have that is potentially bad is where on the Roval the track car is coming down to hit his exit apex low down before tracking out to the wall, and he is going like a rocket, so if you make sure that you do NOT go on track before the apex point you should be in very good shape safety wise...pay attention to that spot on the track when you enter. The other good thing about that entry is that the track car has an incredible view of any car entering the track and lots of time to make decisions and adjustments to his line safely.
But the infield layout at CS is different. It is board flat terrain and makes it harder to see another car, especially another very low very fast supercar rocket in a flat grey color (this is where ferrari red and lambo yellow are nice for the merging car!) And the merge point is where differential speeds are potentially quite high. In Miatas this is not such a big deal, but in supercars....a whole different class of risk. So track configuration may have played a part in this too, and possibly even the car release rules may not have been appropriate for what is now tragically recognized as an obvious risk. So it is possible both track marshalls followed their instructions and it was a combination of layout design and entry procedures elements that contributed.
Having gone OTE at about 60mph myself in the grass out of turn 6 at Cal Speedway the first time I ran it, and Clint can attest to this from his little backwards excursion earlier this year at Laguna Seca out of turn 2....when you get on grass you might as well be trying to maintain control while running on an ice rink in a brand new pair of leather soled dress shoes. No chance. It feels like you not only have zero control, but you are not scrubbing off any speed and you are going to go like a shuffleboard puck forever....until you hit something or slow to the point where your tires regain some purchase, which is probably around 20mph, and less if it is wet. Once the Porsche had a sharp controls input at high speed, and got out of shape, if he got on the grass it was completely nonrecoverable. Was it necessary to make that sharp a control input unless he was on the wrong line to the turn, so that driver error on his part was involved? Did he have tunnel vision and not keep a wary eye out for the possibility of somebody coming out onto the track or not "look up" as can often happen, a type of focus fixation that is easy to fall prey to when you are beyond your comfort zone (remember how it is to get behind a newbie who totally forgets about his rear view mirrors because he is scared spitless being on the track going at speeds that are boring to you??!!). Did the Porsche driver just not glance at the pit lane to check for the possibility of a car marshalled on the grid? (always drive defensively and be prepared for such things along pit row, and always look ahead as you settle into the straight for whether the pit grid is empty, and if not...be ready!) Was everything ok but the ferrari did not keep to the entry line and just slid out in front of him? Did he suddenly see the Porsche, and make a juke after the Porsche was committing to an evasive maneuvre, so that the Porsche driver had to do a double input and unsettled the car? Did he try to "dive bomb" inside the Ferrari and misjudge.....? I sure don't know. But more than only one of these and who knows how many other unknown factors had to be involved to get this result.
Is somebody at fault? It doesn't matter for Ben Keaton and Cory Rudl once it does get sorted out. But it is not necessarily just one person here. It can be either or both drivers attention/inattention, either or both drivers skill or lack thereof under the particular challenge, one or more corner workers making judgment error, faulty procedure faithfully followed, problematic track configuration, and perhaps something else..such as a mechanical failure under extreme mechanical stress that led to loss of control bythe Porsche. Things do break at high speed, especially when you ask a very demanding and unusual thing of it just then. The agony and personal devastation to everyone involved....and those just being there and thus compelled to be a part of this tragedy from their mere presence, is beyond description. Hopefully there will be lessons learned and communicated and reinforced to save or protect others from a similar fate in the future. But no such lesson is worth the price paid on Thursday.
May God bless them both and their families.
Having gone OTE at about 60mph myself in the grass out of turn 6 at Cal Speedway the first time I ran it, and Clint can attest to this from his little backwards excursion earlier this year at Laguna Seca out of turn 2....when you get on grass you might as well be trying to maintain control while running on an ice rink in a brand new pair of leather soled dress shoes. No chance. It feels like you not only have zero control, but you are not scrubbing off any speed and you are going to go like a shuffleboard puck forever....until you hit something or slow to the point where your tires regain some purchase, which is probably around 20mph, and less if it is wet. Once the Porsche had a sharp controls input at high speed, and got out of shape, if he got on the grass it was completely nonrecoverable. Was it necessary to make that sharp a control input unless he was on the wrong line to the turn, so that driver error on his part was involved? Did he have tunnel vision and not keep a wary eye out for the possibility of somebody coming out onto the track or not "look up" as can often happen, a type of focus fixation that is easy to fall prey to when you are beyond your comfort zone (remember how it is to get behind a newbie who totally forgets about his rear view mirrors because he is scared spitless being on the track going at speeds that are boring to you??!!). Did the Porsche driver just not glance at the pit lane to check for the possibility of a car marshalled on the grid? (always drive defensively and be prepared for such things along pit row, and always look ahead as you settle into the straight for whether the pit grid is empty, and if not...be ready!) Was everything ok but the ferrari did not keep to the entry line and just slid out in front of him? Did he suddenly see the Porsche, and make a juke after the Porsche was committing to an evasive maneuvre, so that the Porsche driver had to do a double input and unsettled the car? Did he try to "dive bomb" inside the Ferrari and misjudge.....? I sure don't know. But more than only one of these and who knows how many other unknown factors had to be involved to get this result.
Is somebody at fault? It doesn't matter for Ben Keaton and Cory Rudl once it does get sorted out. But it is not necessarily just one person here. It can be either or both drivers attention/inattention, either or both drivers skill or lack thereof under the particular challenge, one or more corner workers making judgment error, faulty procedure faithfully followed, problematic track configuration, and perhaps something else..such as a mechanical failure under extreme mechanical stress that led to loss of control bythe Porsche. Things do break at high speed, especially when you ask a very demanding and unusual thing of it just then. The agony and personal devastation to everyone involved....and those just being there and thus compelled to be a part of this tragedy from their mere presence, is beyond description. Hopefully there will be lessons learned and communicated and reinforced to save or protect others from a similar fate in the future. But no such lesson is worth the price paid on Thursday.
May God bless them both and their families.
BTW, the cost of the GT is about $440,000. In perspective, inconsequential.
Ben and Cory were priceless to their friends and family. These were good guys.
Hopefully with some reflection on safety issues we can reduce the chances of others befalling the same fate.
I don't post often, about as third as frequently as you post it would appear. But when I do it is true, the posts are longer and more detailed. Usually in response to inquiries which require some analysis or explanation to provide answers that are helpful.
Come to the track and I'll give you a ride and you will see why.
Cheers.
Ben and Cory were priceless to their friends and family. These were good guys.
Hopefully with some reflection on safety issues we can reduce the chances of others befalling the same fate.
I don't post often, about as third as frequently as you post it would appear. But when I do it is true, the posts are longer and more detailed. Usually in response to inquiries which require some analysis or explanation to provide answers that are helpful.
Come to the track and I'll give you a ride and you will see why.
Cheers.
Well ... the exact crash site is clear to me now.
It is off to the right field just after the bridge. It appears the CGT ran straight into the retaining wall (proably at a fairly steep angle) knocking it back serveral feet!
At an estimate speed in excess of 150mph ... I now see why both occupants expired. That is a lot of force involved. Also note how well the general carbon monocoque held up.
I've attached several overhead pics that better illustrates the track layout and the site of crash. I also managed to get a hold of a satellite image and had the pointers penciled in.
Here's an excerpt from one of my track day video at California Speedway. As you can see ... there's a lot less time and distance than the overhead map would have otherwise suggested. For reference, I hit approx. 110 mph at the end of the straight just before braking for the the 'S'. The shear performance of the CGT did 150 mph by the time it reached the bridge is simply mind boggling!!!
It is off to the right field just after the bridge. It appears the CGT ran straight into the retaining wall (proably at a fairly steep angle) knocking it back serveral feet!
At an estimate speed in excess of 150mph ... I now see why both occupants expired. That is a lot of force involved. Also note how well the general carbon monocoque held up.I've attached several overhead pics that better illustrates the track layout and the site of crash. I also managed to get a hold of a satellite image and had the pointers penciled in.
Here's an excerpt from one of my track day video at California Speedway. As you can see ... there's a lot less time and distance than the overhead map would have otherwise suggested. For reference, I hit approx. 110 mph at the end of the straight just before braking for the the 'S'. The shear performance of the CGT did 150 mph by the time it reached the bridge is simply mind boggling!!!
Last edited by THX723; Jun 8, 2005 at 07:03 PM.
Clint, Sherlock Holmes could take notes from you on this one!
The whole tragedy unfolds clearly in looking at the center picture.
As everyone who drives that track knows, the driving line brings the track car from the exit of the chicane and track out point on the right edge, back across to the left edge to set up for the straight brake and then hard right turn into the compound combination of 13/14. But the launch on this configuration is very short, and from a slow speed, at a point that potentially creates an intersection of the two driving lines where the disparity in speed is very significant. The view of the pit marshall is also potentially obscured because the chicane itself is behind the view line, so the marshall cannot see a car coming out of the #10 hairpin, and then hammering throttle up through the 11/12 shunt. A 605hp car with the lateral handling capability of the CGT would go WOT and LEAP into vision potentially well after the marshall gave the wave ahead to the Ferrari. It would be an absolute MUST that the corner worker at #10 be consulted by radio for a safe entry when running supercars on the track when using that entry point. Makes me sick to see the K rail. Clearly the CGT juked right hard, got two wheels on the grass, and that was it....a 150mph sideways slide and not a darn thing they could do about it.
The whole tragedy unfolds clearly in looking at the center picture.
As everyone who drives that track knows, the driving line brings the track car from the exit of the chicane and track out point on the right edge, back across to the left edge to set up for the straight brake and then hard right turn into the compound combination of 13/14. But the launch on this configuration is very short, and from a slow speed, at a point that potentially creates an intersection of the two driving lines where the disparity in speed is very significant. The view of the pit marshall is also potentially obscured because the chicane itself is behind the view line, so the marshall cannot see a car coming out of the #10 hairpin, and then hammering throttle up through the 11/12 shunt. A 605hp car with the lateral handling capability of the CGT would go WOT and LEAP into vision potentially well after the marshall gave the wave ahead to the Ferrari. It would be an absolute MUST that the corner worker at #10 be consulted by radio for a safe entry when running supercars on the track when using that entry point. Makes me sick to see the K rail. Clearly the CGT juked right hard, got two wheels on the grass, and that was it....a 150mph sideways slide and not a darn thing they could do about it.
It is really hard to say, Kamal, because if you put yourself in the seat of the CGT, coming out of the diminishing radius hairpin, you have your eye up track to the turn in point for the chicane, and it is difficult to see to the left edge by the bridge because of the wall that is on the left, so while you cannot see the entry point, neither can the marshall see you!
So you go to WOT in second gear, upshift third and enter the chicane, hold the throttle down upshift fourth as you finish track out to the right....now you should have your eyes up and all the way down track, and definitely looking to the left edge and through the entry area, because you will be easing over that way to set up for the turn. Normally this is a chance for just a quick relax, wiggle the fingers, glance at the gauges etc. You are in a 605hp car, accelerating hard...but there is a LOT of time relatively speaking to be looking down course. I doubt seriously that the car is going much over 100-110mph at this point, (most cars would be humping to do 80, and will get to 115 at best to the brake zone), but the point is that you have plenty of track left to claw from 80 to 115mph in a typical track coupe, and from 110 to 150 in the CGT.
What that means is that if you look down track you see the entry point. You have time to pick up a car and to lift throttle and pass safely or change your course. You definitely do not on an HPDE day keep the pedal to the floor knowing you are going to be doing 150+ when somebody is coming off the grid, especially with that configuration. So either the Ferrari did not hug the left and busted an unpredictable move at entry or shortly thereafter, or the CGT driver just did not see him and looked up and was surprised and jerked over the wheel. He had to be WELL PAST the entry lane before making the move to have reached the kind of speed we have been reported.
So maybe it is a marshall error, but it could very easily be a combination of both drivers in the mix as well. The marshall probably should not have given the "go". But the Ferrari might have not stuck to the left and checked his mirrors or made a bad move, and the CGT might have been inattentive or made bad passing decision.
Never forget, passing is supposed to be only by POINT BY from the car in front in most HPDE situations and car club days. No point by, no pass, no matter what. If that is the case on this day, then in fact more of the responsibility would be that of the CGT driver. That rule is precisely to protect against collisions with less experienced drivers in non race conditions by putting the person with what should be perfect vision perspective from behind into the primary safety role, no matter how inconvenient to his opportunity to blast by.
If we put ourselves in the position of the Ferrari driver or the marshall, we would have relived and questioned what happened a thousand times already in a few days. And if we had done everything by the rules we would still never stop asking..."but if I had only done it different....would they be alive."
So you go to WOT in second gear, upshift third and enter the chicane, hold the throttle down upshift fourth as you finish track out to the right....now you should have your eyes up and all the way down track, and definitely looking to the left edge and through the entry area, because you will be easing over that way to set up for the turn. Normally this is a chance for just a quick relax, wiggle the fingers, glance at the gauges etc. You are in a 605hp car, accelerating hard...but there is a LOT of time relatively speaking to be looking down course. I doubt seriously that the car is going much over 100-110mph at this point, (most cars would be humping to do 80, and will get to 115 at best to the brake zone), but the point is that you have plenty of track left to claw from 80 to 115mph in a typical track coupe, and from 110 to 150 in the CGT.
What that means is that if you look down track you see the entry point. You have time to pick up a car and to lift throttle and pass safely or change your course. You definitely do not on an HPDE day keep the pedal to the floor knowing you are going to be doing 150+ when somebody is coming off the grid, especially with that configuration. So either the Ferrari did not hug the left and busted an unpredictable move at entry or shortly thereafter, or the CGT driver just did not see him and looked up and was surprised and jerked over the wheel. He had to be WELL PAST the entry lane before making the move to have reached the kind of speed we have been reported.
So maybe it is a marshall error, but it could very easily be a combination of both drivers in the mix as well. The marshall probably should not have given the "go". But the Ferrari might have not stuck to the left and checked his mirrors or made a bad move, and the CGT might have been inattentive or made bad passing decision.
Never forget, passing is supposed to be only by POINT BY from the car in front in most HPDE situations and car club days. No point by, no pass, no matter what. If that is the case on this day, then in fact more of the responsibility would be that of the CGT driver. That rule is precisely to protect against collisions with less experienced drivers in non race conditions by putting the person with what should be perfect vision perspective from behind into the primary safety role, no matter how inconvenient to his opportunity to blast by.
If we put ourselves in the position of the Ferrari driver or the marshall, we would have relived and questioned what happened a thousand times already in a few days. And if we had done everything by the rules we would still never stop asking..."but if I had only done it different....would they be alive."
true true. They really couldnt do anything anyway cause all the waver forms they signed. It was an accident but damn think about it though, living the rest of your life knowing you cause the accident to happen. I know it was by accident but stilll. Sucks man. Interesting to see if there will be any civil suits. hmm oh welll may the 2 victims that passed away RIP.
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