I just got back from doing a dyno tonight. Even with a problem with heat-soak due to running 6 runs back to back in less than an hour, and an initial dumped run because of a loose sensor wire, I got gains of 7 and 7 with GroundingGear™. They estimated about 3 or 4 more points gain if the engine was fresher! Should have waited more time between I guess. The owner was so impressed that they will be carrying GroundingGear™ and am inviting me to help tweak cars being tuned on the dynos, with GroundingGear™! He actually thought I got a 17 gain in one gear, but thought that it wasn't valid as it was being compared to another gear. Not sure how these things work myself, but when he told me about the 17 HP gain, needless to say I was shocked! He smiled at the look on my face. I'll live with 7 to 11 for now, but I'm thinking about going back for another run with the engine at normal operating temperature. I'll post pics and results soon.

<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

Sorry i'm a noobie here but I've gotta to say this now, I don't believe for one minute that adding lower gauge wires or more ground wires to a stock engine is going to increase HP. If it did then why doesn't the factory ship them like this? The cost increase at the car manufacturing level would be minimal compared to a gain of 7 HP. Everybody was doing this same stuff in the WRX tuning world that I've just spent the last two years playing in and nobody proved reliable grounding mod results on a stock engine.

So I've got to question how those gains of 7 and 7 were measured? Did you do a baseline run without the GroundingGear to start with? Did you go back and take the GroundingGear off and do a run at the end to see what you'd get? In my opinon a variance of 7 on a 280 HP engine could be attributed to a lot of factors including the oil thining from repeated reving.





<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by BigmikeOC on 03/19/04 12:24 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

Sounds great Gord. Even with the normal variation between dyno runs, those gains are substantial and to my mind prove the value of Grounding.
Thanks for posting and let us know of any more developements.

<font color=red>GSM</font color=red>
<font color=red>GSM</font color=red>
<font color=black>Silverstone Coupe</font color=black>

 

Tell you what. I'll send you enough PayPal funds to pay for another dyno session, Gordo on one condition: You do the first (and only the first) pull with the grounding kit on and do all subsequent pulls with it off. If the HP numbers after the first run are all less than the one with the grounding kit, you keep the money. Otherwise, you refund it.

Deal?

--Steve

 

Steve:

It's a deal! Tell me how many runs with and with-out (more runs, more money), and the order you'd like them done. I'll send you a copy of the data. Let me know so I can price out the runs. I don't take pay-pal, but if you want to do it by money order or cashier's cheque, I'll take you up on it.[img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

That way I can do the pulls with my Pop-Charger removed and the stock air-box with K&N back in to see how it compares with the runs already done with the Pop-Charger. That way the dyno results would be useful to everyone and we could all thank-you for the info. I'll have the dyno guys interperect the results if they are willing and also state how the runs were done. (No, I didn't reset the ECU when reattaching the GroundingGear™).

<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

Excellent!! I'm going to watch this one closely.
Gord, by the way, was this a 9 wire setup?

jjellyneck

 

No, this was the 10 wire set-up (with ECU and TCU). The ECU/TCU wires were not disconnected to each other, nor was the plenum to tranny wire as I figured the effect wouldn't change the dynos significantly. Maybe the difference would even have been greater if I disconnected them as well, but I'm not sure. I simply disconnected the two main clusters on the plenum. If Steve follows through with his offer, we can get some valuable info off of this. Maybe one of the other local forum members would like to come watch as well to verify the results!

<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

Your local dyno guy doesn't do one-hour pricing? I'm assuming you can remove the grounding wires quickly enough to do it right on the spot, right?

BTW, PLEASE don't interpret my offer as a challenge to the validity of your claims. I'm doing this purely in the interest of science.

If you'll sign up for PayPal, I'll send you up to $100 for the following: 2 runs with the grounding kit; then you remove the grounding kit with the car still in the vecinity of the dyno; then 2 runs w/o the kit. Same gear, same dyno, same day, all within an hour's time--all results published regardless of outcome.

How about this... If the two w/ grounding kit results are better than both w/o runs then you send me a grounding gear kit. If either grounding kit result is the same or worse than either of the w/o runs then you refund half the dyno cost.

So basically, I'll fund half of it regardless.

--Steve

 

Steve:

That sounds more than fair. Yes, it's a simple matter for me to disconnect at least the two main clusters which according to theory, should disconnect most of the effect. I'm assuming that by send you a kit, you mean that you'll make the purchase correct? My base price for forum members is the same as Z-Xtreme charges for his base 5-wire kit, and I believe we both charge about the same for each additional wire.

For a variety of reasons, I'd prefer not signing up for Paypal. I'll see if my B-I-L will let me use his for this transaction only. Otherwise, it's about a week wait for a MO or cheque.

How about me supplying you with a GroundingGear™ Activated Carbon HEPA Filter instead of refunding your 1/2 of the money? That's about the MSRP on the filter, and it'll also be useful to you. No question re the need and benefits of the filter right?



<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

I know from the posts on my350z.com that later runs with the same mods will usually show more gains as the car's temp increases. Most of the guys over there use the number from their 5th or 6th run, which tend to be the highest. By using the kit only for the first runs, you might be handicapping the results.

If you disagree with this, then you wouldn't mind GG starting off without the kit and putting it on for the final ones.

I would propose in all fairness, alternating the runs if time permits. 1 with 1 without, etc. I would be willing to wager that the later runs will show higher numbers commensurately:
IE:
1st run with: A rwhp
2nd run without: B rwhp
3rd run with: A+C rwhp
4th run without: B+C rwhp
where:
A = rwhp with the grounding kit
B = rwhp without the grounding kit
C = rwhp increase due to warming of engine

Finally, two people willing to put their $ where their mouths are. I applaud both of you guys.


<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by al503 on 03/19/04 10:02 AM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

al503: That's actually a very good idea on how to run the dyno runs. That would minimize perhaps any external variables.

gord: Is your car an auto or stick?

04' G35S 6MT Ivory Pearl, Willow, Premium

 

That sounds like a good idea, if I can get the dyno guys to do it. We also have to determine what is an actual gain? Would 2 HP or TQ be acceptable to rule out any 'margin of error' effects? I know that a dyno with the WRX showed only a 1.2 HP gain, but a whopping 10.9 for the TQ!!! Is there a weighting that we can give to factor in these types of variables?
I spoke to my B-I-L, and he said he would let me use his Paypal account. I guess we Canadians get raped on the exchange rate.[img]/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

BTW, I've never actually claimed that GroundingGear™ increases HP or TQ for those that have not read the H-G Monster Thread. But according to all the feedback that I have been given over the past year, the overwhelming typical response is that it increases smoothness and throttle response to a significant and noticeable degree per the Hyper-Ground FAQ & Feedback Thread. Unfortunately these things are very tough to measure quantitatively.

To be honest, I did my dyno yesterday mainly to satisfy my own curiosity re some of the claims of power increases, as I was even skeptical of the dyno result provided me last year by a GroundingGear™ client that showed a huge Increase in TQ and HP! I needed to see the process myself to make sure nothing 'funky' was going on. I was pleasantly surprised by yesterday's results, and I'll post those after we try to rule out any variances or errors in procedure. If I had the money and resources, I'd test out my EEs' theories that certain types of wire, construction, copper lugs, etc. are superior to others, since it costs me more to construct GroundingGear™ this way. As it is, I'm barely in the black for this year with the R&D and legal fees, not mentioning the time that I put into this 'hobby'.

But if the results show an increase in power with this mod, a lot of GroundingGear™ clients are going to be pleased. If not, then maybe someone will figure out a way to measure smoothness and throttle response. It just surprises me that ppl are willing to spend more on things like the colour or look of their lights or pedals than on something that subjectively, virtually all have reported improvements in performance or feel for a minimal cost, or even try to save by buying kits made in basements! I'm after making a few converts because even if I didn't own the company, I think GroundingGear™ is the real deal and I'd buy my kit from the guy that was as obsessive about the product as I am![img]/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif[/img]


<font color=blue>[i]GroundingGear™ Equipped </font color=blue>

 

If warming up the engine is an issue why not just take it out for a drive first?

 

That's a good question justICE. I can't answer that one. Perhaps tooling around between 2-3K is different than going to the redline WOT. Again, most of the guys use their 5th or 6th run for their numbers.