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Quote:
Ethanol separates from gasoline when it encounters moisture in pipes and storage tanks; so unlike gasoline oxygenated with MTBE, gasohol cannot pass through existing pipelines. Instead, ethanol—which costs three and a half times as much as gasoline to produce and yields 20 percent less energy—must be shipped separately and mixed on-site. And because ethanol evaporates so rapidly, it can be added only to a special and expensive 'blendstock' of gasoline."
"In addition to showing that there are 'no environmental benefits' to ethanol, science clearly shows that there are enormous environmental costs. For example, the general use of ethanol significantly increases air pollution. Ethanol evaporates faster than gasoline. So while gasoline reformulated with ethanol may release less carbon monoxide, it releases more volatile organic compounds, hydrocarbons, and nitrogen oxides."
Ethanol separates from gasoline when it encounters moisture in pipes and storage tanks; so unlike gasoline oxygenated with MTBE, gasohol cannot pass through existing pipelines. Instead, ethanol—which costs three and a half times as much as gasoline to produce and yields 20 percent less energy—must be shipped separately and mixed on-site. And because ethanol evaporates so rapidly, it can be added only to a special and expensive 'blendstock' of gasoline."
"In addition to showing that there are 'no environmental benefits' to ethanol, science clearly shows that there are enormous environmental costs. For example, the general use of ethanol significantly increases air pollution. Ethanol evaporates faster than gasoline. So while gasoline reformulated with ethanol may release less carbon monoxide, it releases more volatile organic compounds, hydrocarbons, and nitrogen oxides."
Quote:
Ethanol, especially at higher concentrations in gasoline, also produce more smog-causing pollutants than gasoline per unit of energy burned, the researchers said.
Ethanol, especially at higher concentrations in gasoline, also produce more smog-causing pollutants than gasoline per unit of energy burned, the researchers said.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sredish
Ethanol is crap, just as MTBE was, which is now outlawed. I puke all over myself every time I see a car/truck with the words 'Flex Fuel' written on the back. It's just another way for the gov't to try and make themselves feel better while not accomplishing a thing except making our fuel mileage even worse but pulling 10% of gas out of every gallon and replacing it with crap, so we're using basically diluted fuel..... hey, i have an idea. let's put 10% water in every gallon, there's zero pollution with the water, so surely it must work better than anything else; great for the environment.
MTBE was outlawed because it is very hazardous and when it leaks out, it gets into the gourd water and causes big problems with peoples health, not because it was bad for cars.
the fact that it wasn't better then 100% gas still remains true though.
i do agree with the general statement here though, they should offer a non-Ethanol 100% gas option, for the people who want it. and i would use that option if i could because my G was designed for it.
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the fact that it wasn't better then 100% gas still remains true though.
i do agree with the general statement here though, they should offer a non-Ethanol 100% gas option, for the people who want it. and i would use that option if i could because my G was designed for it.
What do you think is going to happen when the government goes after more "alternative fuels?"Originally Posted by snowcrossmxz
MTBE was outlawed because it is very hazardous and when it leaks out, it gets into the gourd water and causes big problems with peoples health, not because it was bad for cars.the fact that it wasn't better then 100% gas still remains true though.
i do agree with the general statement here though, they should offer a non-Ethanol 100% gas option, for the people who want it. and i would use that option if i could because my G was designed for it.
It's going to cost US big time.
The only reason why "alternative fuels" AREN'T being pursued is that they're still more expensive to produce and less efficient than gas. They SHOULD be pursued when the marketplace makes them viable.
Until then, I'll keep buying gas as cheap as possible and keep my home electric bill as low as possible.
It's the environment vs. my wallet...... My wallet wins, until you can have both.
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The fuel it self is not the really problem, it’s the engine.
An internal combustion engine in a car can only be 33.3% efficient at best.
The other 66% of the fuels power is lost through heat and exhaust pressure.
Turbos help lower the lost amount through exhaust pressure but not very much.
People are afraid to see higher electric bills with electric plug-ins. And I understand that.
BUT, let’s do some simple general math here.
The G, on average, gets 19 mpg.
I drive ~ 20,000 miles a year. And let’s say gas is around 3.80 a gallon. (We all know how it can fluctuate)
(20,000/19)*3.8=$4000 in fuel for the year. Or about 20 cents a mile.
Now take electric cars, like the tesla. They are claiming, and showing, that their car cost around 2 cents a mile to run.
That turns our to be 400 bucks a year. And a tesla can out run a G any day of the week.
So ya my electric bill will go up about 35 bucks a month. But my $335 monthly fuel bill will disappear.
Also electrical generation is MUCH cleaner then the Gs engine, + you have wind and solar.
Now right now that much cheaper fuel is off set by the initial cost of the electric car. But in the coming years that will change.
An internal combustion engine in a car can only be 33.3% efficient at best.
The other 66% of the fuels power is lost through heat and exhaust pressure.
Turbos help lower the lost amount through exhaust pressure but not very much.
People are afraid to see higher electric bills with electric plug-ins. And I understand that.
BUT, let’s do some simple general math here.
The G, on average, gets 19 mpg.
I drive ~ 20,000 miles a year. And let’s say gas is around 3.80 a gallon. (We all know how it can fluctuate)
(20,000/19)*3.8=$4000 in fuel for the year. Or about 20 cents a mile.
Now take electric cars, like the tesla. They are claiming, and showing, that their car cost around 2 cents a mile to run.
That turns our to be 400 bucks a year. And a tesla can out run a G any day of the week.
So ya my electric bill will go up about 35 bucks a month. But my $335 monthly fuel bill will disappear.
Also electrical generation is MUCH cleaner then the Gs engine, + you have wind and solar.
Now right now that much cheaper fuel is off set by the initial cost of the electric car. But in the coming years that will change.
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Quote:
the fact that it wasn't better then 100% gas still remains true though.
i do agree with the general statement here though, they should offer a non-Ethanol 100% gas option, for the people who want it. and i would use that option if i could because my G was designed for it.
My point was, it's another federally mandated additive shoved down our throats that doesn't do what they're claiming, blowing smoke up our asses and acting like this is the next thing to blow our doors off.... as they did with MTBE, which now is not legal anywhere.... if you remember back, MTBE was the next wonderfully beautiful federally mandated additive that turned out to be a crock. Same thing with E10.Originally Posted by snowcrossmxz
MTBE was outlawed because it is very hazardous and when it leaks out, it gets into the gourd water and causes big problems with peoples health, not because it was bad for cars.the fact that it wasn't better then 100% gas still remains true though.
i do agree with the general statement here though, they should offer a non-Ethanol 100% gas option, for the people who want it. and i would use that option if i could because my G was designed for it.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sredish
My point was, it's another federally mandated additive shoved down our throats that doesn't do what they're claiming, blowing smoke up our asses and acting like this is the next thing to blow our doors off.... as they did with MTBE, which now is not legal anywhere.... if you remember back, MTBE was the next wonderfully beautiful federally mandated additive that turned out to be a crock. Same thing with E10.
mmm yup i would have to agree with that point
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Quote:
An internal combustion engine in a car can only be 33.3% efficient at best.
The other 66% of the fuels power is lost through heat and exhaust pressure.
Turbos help lower the lost amount through exhaust pressure but not very much.
People are afraid to see higher electric bills with electric plug-ins. And I understand that.
BUT, let’s do some simple general math here.
The G, on average, gets 19 mpg.
I drive ~ 20,000 miles a year. And let’s say gas is around 3.80 a gallon. (We all know how it can fluctuate)
(20,000/19)*3.8=$4000 in fuel for the year. Or about 20 cents a mile.
Now take electric cars, like the tesla. They are claiming, and showing, that their car cost around 2 cents a mile to run.
That turns our to be 400 bucks a year. And a tesla can out run a G any day of the week.
So ya my electric bill will go up about 35 bucks a month. But my $335 monthly fuel bill will disappear.
Also electrical generation is MUCH cleaner then the Gs engine, + you have wind and solar.
Now right now that much cheaper fuel is off set by the initial cost of the electric car. But in the coming years that will change.
No doubt electricity is cheaper than running a gas engine. But, the cars are slow, expensive, really expensive if they break, and have a limited range. Originally Posted by snowcrossmxz
The fuel it self is not the really problem, it’s the engine. An internal combustion engine in a car can only be 33.3% efficient at best.
The other 66% of the fuels power is lost through heat and exhaust pressure.
Turbos help lower the lost amount through exhaust pressure but not very much.
People are afraid to see higher electric bills with electric plug-ins. And I understand that.
BUT, let’s do some simple general math here.
The G, on average, gets 19 mpg.
I drive ~ 20,000 miles a year. And let’s say gas is around 3.80 a gallon. (We all know how it can fluctuate)
(20,000/19)*3.8=$4000 in fuel for the year. Or about 20 cents a mile.
Now take electric cars, like the tesla. They are claiming, and showing, that their car cost around 2 cents a mile to run.
That turns our to be 400 bucks a year. And a tesla can out run a G any day of the week.
So ya my electric bill will go up about 35 bucks a month. But my $335 monthly fuel bill will disappear.
Also electrical generation is MUCH cleaner then the Gs engine, + you have wind and solar.
Now right now that much cheaper fuel is off set by the initial cost of the electric car. But in the coming years that will change.
Honestly, I'm surprised they aren't more popular in large cities though.
But, right now, the best reason to buy one is to save the environment, not to save $$. Same thing goes for solar and wind power.
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Quote:
Almost as bad as CAFE standards!Originally Posted by sredish
My point was, it's another federally mandated additive shoved down our throats that doesn't do what they're claiming, blowing smoke up our asses and acting like this is the next thing to blow our doors off.... as they did with MTBE, which now is not legal anywhere.... if you remember back, MTBE was the next wonderfully beautiful federally mandated additive that turned out to be a crock. Same thing with E10.
Unfortunately, the only way to save the environment is through Federal Mandates. Because, pretty much everything that saves the environment is bad for your wallet. There needs to be a more reasonable balance though. (less gov't intervention).
Like instead of saying EVERYONE has to do something, just give tax incentives for those who do.
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hybrid electric is the next step. we just need a little more time to get the costs down, but that is the next step in helping our world go green; not Ethanol, not LP and electric is not reasonable with the range. hybrid electric is going to be making moves forward tho.