350Z springs and structs
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350Z springs and structs
I am seeing people making this mod like Gsedan35 .........
I am just wondering the ride quality and control of this mod. I am probably gettting my Cusco sway bars in december and I am just wondering about a possible next mod. I wanna know if the Stock non-sport suspension + Cusco sway bar is a good combo or should I go the cheap solution for some Z springs and struct because I don't have that much money to pump out for a set of Tein.
I am just wondering the ride quality and control of this mod. I am probably gettting my Cusco sway bars in december and I am just wondering about a possible next mod. I wanna know if the Stock non-sport suspension + Cusco sway bar is a good combo or should I go the cheap solution for some Z springs and struct because I don't have that much money to pump out for a set of Tein.
Re: 350Z springs and structs
I think their are two thing you HAVE to do before you make a decision that is right for you.
1. Go drive a sport equipped sedan, and see how the ride and drive feels compaired to your non sport.
2. Find a 03 350Z, and drive is on the same test drive route that you took the G35 sedan w/sport on.
Now having said that. The Z suspension on my car was a tremendious improvement in several key areas that even the sport suspension is weak on. However, you have to come out of your Z car test drive not being bothered by the bounce and what some preceive as harshness. I've always held that the benefits I got and the fact that I got the suspension cheap, enables me to ignor the bounce to a large degree. However, you might not be able to ignor it. Performance wise, the Z setup is better, paired with the Cusco sway bars, its a "grinnin" kind of fun to drive.
And the reason I say for you to drive a sedan with sport is that's you plan B. You have one member that is selling his sport suspension on this board. Z suspensions are a dime a dozen, because their is a ample suppy and every owner that has removed them has done so because they don't like them, two things that don't support high resale. Sport suspensions are much more rare and not disliked by their owners like the Z springs and struts. Meaning that a sport suspension will sell for more than a Z suspension. I just sold my sport suspension to a non sport owner for $300 plus shipping.
Either setup would benefit from the addition of aftermarket sway bars.
Hope that helps you.
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
1. Go drive a sport equipped sedan, and see how the ride and drive feels compaired to your non sport.
2. Find a 03 350Z, and drive is on the same test drive route that you took the G35 sedan w/sport on.
Now having said that. The Z suspension on my car was a tremendious improvement in several key areas that even the sport suspension is weak on. However, you have to come out of your Z car test drive not being bothered by the bounce and what some preceive as harshness. I've always held that the benefits I got and the fact that I got the suspension cheap, enables me to ignor the bounce to a large degree. However, you might not be able to ignor it. Performance wise, the Z setup is better, paired with the Cusco sway bars, its a "grinnin" kind of fun to drive.
And the reason I say for you to drive a sedan with sport is that's you plan B. You have one member that is selling his sport suspension on this board. Z suspensions are a dime a dozen, because their is a ample suppy and every owner that has removed them has done so because they don't like them, two things that don't support high resale. Sport suspensions are much more rare and not disliked by their owners like the Z springs and struts. Meaning that a sport suspension will sell for more than a Z suspension. I just sold my sport suspension to a non sport owner for $300 plus shipping.
Either setup would benefit from the addition of aftermarket sway bars.
Hope that helps you.
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
Thread Starter
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Registered User
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Re: 350Z springs and structs
I am trying to make a more balanced car out of the money I got. The power right now is more than the tires and suspension can handle.
How would you describe your suspension setting?? I have been in a lot of cars and can feel the suspension settings so maybe you can describe it using another car or something?
Sounds kind of dumb but it would give me a general idea because I don't have much time to do the test drives yet.
How would you describe your suspension setting?? I have been in a lot of cars and can feel the suspension settings so maybe you can describe it using another car or something?
Sounds kind of dumb but it would give me a general idea because I don't have much time to do the test drives yet.
Re: 350Z springs and structs
Renesis (Newbie)
11/04/03 08:49 AM
1. I am trying to make a more balanced car out of the money I got. The power right now is more than the tires and suspension can handle.
2. How would you describe your suspension setting?? I have been in a lot of cars and can feel the suspension settings so maybe you can describe it using another car or something?
Sounds kind of dumb but it would give me a general idea because I don't have much time to do the test drives yet.
__________________________________________________ _
1. Going to the sport suspension on the sedan will give you improvements without the pitfalls of the Z suspension, however it will be less capable when pushed hard. Are you running all season tires by chance?
2. How does it drive, like the Z, that's why I'm telling you to go drive a Z. Find the time,.....................its that important. I mean it will take less time to run a test drive than it will take to install a new suspension and possible make a choice you don't like, then you'll be finding the time to remove it.
Here is a cut and paste from the review I posted some time ago about the 350Z suspension on the sedan vs the stock sport suspension. DO NOT USE THIS AS A REASON TO DO THE SWAP WITHOUT DRIVING A 03 350Z FIRST!
A good question is why would anyone want to do this? Any one that drove the Z and loved it's firmer more sport oriented suspension, it spite of any perceived ride harshness. I do not mind a firmer suspension that delivers the handling goods. And this would be done by someone that doesn't want to spend $1400 on coilovers (least not yet) and doesn't need the adjustability. Add to that the fact that no one make performance struts for the car, yet. This would also be done by someone that does not want the compromise progressive springs have on ultimate handling and behavior. The car has linear springs for a reason.
One other reason, the Z springs are shorter and you'll lower your car about as much as prokits. They lower the car 7/8" front and 1 1/8" in the rear.
The bad: Let's get this out of the way, front and center. Ride quality is the most serious compromise in doing this swap. The ride is no different than how the Z rides. Off of main roads and at lower speed the sensation is, that the suspension greets bumps with allot of reluctance. Just like Gordon from koni said, they dialed in a little do much compression dampening to get really good turn in performance. Add to this the spring action in the seats and you get a bouncing sensation on certain bumpy roads. The car does exhibit some freeway hop on concrete freeways that have expansion joint's built into them. In describing all this, it is not as bad as when I have made the mistake of running weak struts on a lowered suspension, that's worse than this. I may decide to improve the harshness control with Koni sport struts coming out this fall(spring of 04 as of now). In any event, theirs allot of Z owners that have really spoken up about the perceived bounce issue and ride harshness. Many of them have replaced their springs with eibach's progressive spirngs, to cure the issues. This makes for the chance to get excellent pricing on used 350Z springs and struts.
Let me bring to the table the things I do not like with the sport suspension. And then we'll get into how these problems are fixed.
1. Excess weight transfer during hard brake applications. Do a hard brake application and the suspension gets to nervous and unsettled, like it's really not sure of itself. Also their's WAY to much weight transferring going on when getting on and off the throttle. This also is a bad thing if you need to do a gear change mid corner while carrying a g load, such a weight transfer can upset the car.
2.Poor at the limit behavior with VDC off if you make a mistake. If you reach the adhesion limit and don't touch the throttle the car will corner in a excellent neutral balance however. Cornering loads have to be lighter than normal to be able to start applying power down. It's far to easy to spin the inside wheel with the open diff.
3. Turn in performance is lacking, the car isn't willing to change directions like it should.
So, how do the 350Z springs and struts work at fixing the above issues.
1. Weight transfer is almost eliminated. As a result the car is dramatically more steady and sure of itself when doing hard brake applications, night and day better.
2. At the limit behavior is also greatly improved. The car's neutral balance is maintained. But now I have the ability to steer the car with the throttle, without fear of sudden oversteer. Also the window in which you can start to apply power in corners and not spin the inside tire is much better now. Enough that I'm not dying for a LSD. (I still need one, don't get me wrong).
3. Turn in performance is now on the side of WOW! Flick the steering wheel and the car instantly obey's with out delay. Initial bite is also much higher.
****The above review was written before I installed my Cusco sway bars.
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
11/04/03 08:49 AM
1. I am trying to make a more balanced car out of the money I got. The power right now is more than the tires and suspension can handle.
2. How would you describe your suspension setting?? I have been in a lot of cars and can feel the suspension settings so maybe you can describe it using another car or something?
Sounds kind of dumb but it would give me a general idea because I don't have much time to do the test drives yet.
__________________________________________________ _
1. Going to the sport suspension on the sedan will give you improvements without the pitfalls of the Z suspension, however it will be less capable when pushed hard. Are you running all season tires by chance?
2. How does it drive, like the Z, that's why I'm telling you to go drive a Z. Find the time,.....................its that important. I mean it will take less time to run a test drive than it will take to install a new suspension and possible make a choice you don't like, then you'll be finding the time to remove it.
Here is a cut and paste from the review I posted some time ago about the 350Z suspension on the sedan vs the stock sport suspension. DO NOT USE THIS AS A REASON TO DO THE SWAP WITHOUT DRIVING A 03 350Z FIRST!
A good question is why would anyone want to do this? Any one that drove the Z and loved it's firmer more sport oriented suspension, it spite of any perceived ride harshness. I do not mind a firmer suspension that delivers the handling goods. And this would be done by someone that doesn't want to spend $1400 on coilovers (least not yet) and doesn't need the adjustability. Add to that the fact that no one make performance struts for the car, yet. This would also be done by someone that does not want the compromise progressive springs have on ultimate handling and behavior. The car has linear springs for a reason.
One other reason, the Z springs are shorter and you'll lower your car about as much as prokits. They lower the car 7/8" front and 1 1/8" in the rear.
The bad: Let's get this out of the way, front and center. Ride quality is the most serious compromise in doing this swap. The ride is no different than how the Z rides. Off of main roads and at lower speed the sensation is, that the suspension greets bumps with allot of reluctance. Just like Gordon from koni said, they dialed in a little do much compression dampening to get really good turn in performance. Add to this the spring action in the seats and you get a bouncing sensation on certain bumpy roads. The car does exhibit some freeway hop on concrete freeways that have expansion joint's built into them. In describing all this, it is not as bad as when I have made the mistake of running weak struts on a lowered suspension, that's worse than this. I may decide to improve the harshness control with Koni sport struts coming out this fall(spring of 04 as of now). In any event, theirs allot of Z owners that have really spoken up about the perceived bounce issue and ride harshness. Many of them have replaced their springs with eibach's progressive spirngs, to cure the issues. This makes for the chance to get excellent pricing on used 350Z springs and struts.
Let me bring to the table the things I do not like with the sport suspension. And then we'll get into how these problems are fixed.
1. Excess weight transfer during hard brake applications. Do a hard brake application and the suspension gets to nervous and unsettled, like it's really not sure of itself. Also their's WAY to much weight transferring going on when getting on and off the throttle. This also is a bad thing if you need to do a gear change mid corner while carrying a g load, such a weight transfer can upset the car.
2.Poor at the limit behavior with VDC off if you make a mistake. If you reach the adhesion limit and don't touch the throttle the car will corner in a excellent neutral balance however. Cornering loads have to be lighter than normal to be able to start applying power down. It's far to easy to spin the inside wheel with the open diff.
3. Turn in performance is lacking, the car isn't willing to change directions like it should.
So, how do the 350Z springs and struts work at fixing the above issues.
1. Weight transfer is almost eliminated. As a result the car is dramatically more steady and sure of itself when doing hard brake applications, night and day better.
2. At the limit behavior is also greatly improved. The car's neutral balance is maintained. But now I have the ability to steer the car with the throttle, without fear of sudden oversteer. Also the window in which you can start to apply power in corners and not spin the inside tire is much better now. Enough that I'm not dying for a LSD. (I still need one, don't get me wrong).
3. Turn in performance is now on the side of WOW! Flick the steering wheel and the car instantly obey's with out delay. Initial bite is also much higher.
****The above review was written before I installed my Cusco sway bars.
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
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Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 527
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Re: 350Z springs and structs
I am running the stock Turanza EL42 now but I am planning to get a new set of tires when it wears out. Probably a set of Eagle F1 GS-D3 or S-03 size 225/55 R17.
I will go test drive both and see what conclusion I am up to.
You mentioned that some Z owners changed their springs to Eibach's. Have you hear any comments about the performance after they changed the spring?
I will go test drive both and see what conclusion I am up to.
You mentioned that some Z owners changed their springs to Eibach's. Have you hear any comments about the performance after they changed the spring?
Re: 350Z springs and structs
Gsedan35,
I don't want to hijack this thread, but just a quick question. Any idea what the spring rate is off the 350Z (one you're using)?
THX723
I don't want to hijack this thread, but just a quick question. Any idea what the spring rate is off the 350Z (one you're using)?
THX723
Re: 350Z springs and structs
THX723, here ya go. I keep a word doc file on hand so I can easy ref for such questions.
Stock spring rates
F/R in lb/in
350Z and G35 coupe: 347/419
G35 sedan with sport: 357/407
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
Stock spring rates
F/R in lb/in
350Z and G35 coupe: 347/419
G35 sedan with sport: 357/407
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
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Re: 350Z springs and structs
Renesis (Newbie)
11/04/03 01:24 PM
I am running the stock Turanza EL42 now but I am planning to get a new set of tires when it wears out. Probably a set of Eagle F1 GS-D3 or S-03 size 225/55 R17.
I will go test drive both and see what conclusion I am up to.
You mentioned that some Z owners changed their springs to Eibach's. Have you hear any comments about the performance after they changed the spring?
__________________________________________________ _
I actually liked the stock summer Goodyears, I thought they had excellent grip.
Getting in the Eibach issue gets really complicated. Keep in mind that Eibach does not use the same spring rates from sedan, coupe to Z, so a Z owners comments can't really be drawn on by someone with a sedan (and theirs another issue below). First of all they use progressive springs, they are a compromise on performance for the sake of ride comfort. Any performance gains from them comes from the lowered center of gravity. Being progressive, they use dual spring rates. A softer initial rate and than a firmer final rate. Their final rates can vary from slightly stiffer than stock, the same as stock or slightly softer. And keep in mind that when you run Z springs and struts, you are lowering a sedan automatically. 7/8" front and 1 1/8" rear. If you try and toss on some lowering springs ment for a Z onto that setup, you will be lowering a additional amount equal to the amount those lowering springs would lower a Z. So if you added 1" Eibach 350Z drop springs to the 350Z struts on a sedan, you'd get 1 7/8" drop in the front and 2 1/8" drop in the rear. Progessive springs also have other issues for performance purists, which I won't go into here. Needless to say I will never run them, ever. It depends on what you want out of your (lowered) car and what your priorities are. Some people are after different things.
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
11/04/03 01:24 PM
I am running the stock Turanza EL42 now but I am planning to get a new set of tires when it wears out. Probably a set of Eagle F1 GS-D3 or S-03 size 225/55 R17.
I will go test drive both and see what conclusion I am up to.
You mentioned that some Z owners changed their springs to Eibach's. Have you hear any comments about the performance after they changed the spring?
__________________________________________________ _
I actually liked the stock summer Goodyears, I thought they had excellent grip.
Getting in the Eibach issue gets really complicated. Keep in mind that Eibach does not use the same spring rates from sedan, coupe to Z, so a Z owners comments can't really be drawn on by someone with a sedan (and theirs another issue below). First of all they use progressive springs, they are a compromise on performance for the sake of ride comfort. Any performance gains from them comes from the lowered center of gravity. Being progressive, they use dual spring rates. A softer initial rate and than a firmer final rate. Their final rates can vary from slightly stiffer than stock, the same as stock or slightly softer. And keep in mind that when you run Z springs and struts, you are lowering a sedan automatically. 7/8" front and 1 1/8" rear. If you try and toss on some lowering springs ment for a Z onto that setup, you will be lowering a additional amount equal to the amount those lowering springs would lower a Z. So if you added 1" Eibach 350Z drop springs to the 350Z struts on a sedan, you'd get 1 7/8" drop in the front and 2 1/8" drop in the rear. Progessive springs also have other issues for performance purists, which I won't go into here. Needless to say I will never run them, ever. It depends on what you want out of your (lowered) car and what your priorities are. Some people are after different things.
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
Re: 350Z springs and structs
Gsedan35,
Thanks for the trouble. Those numbers for the Z (and Coupe) matches those out of my personal notes. I was just making sure I did not gather the wrong data from past. With that, it looks like the 'harshness' of the Z ride originates from the dampers more than anything. Frankly, I was a little surprised that the sedan 'sport' springs were that firm. Very interesting in any case. I now have a good basis for my suspension upgrade and to choose custom spring rates accordingly.
THX723
Thanks for the trouble. Those numbers for the Z (and Coupe) matches those out of my personal notes. I was just making sure I did not gather the wrong data from past. With that, it looks like the 'harshness' of the Z ride originates from the dampers more than anything. Frankly, I was a little surprised that the sedan 'sport' springs were that firm. Very interesting in any case. I now have a good basis for my suspension upgrade and to choose custom spring rates accordingly.
THX723
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Re: 350Z springs and structs
I got a chance to drive a sedan with sport yesterday and to my amusement, my own cars has a harsher ride than a courtesy sedan with sport. I am still wondering why right now. In my opinion, the steering in the sport is LIGHTER and the car is more balanced I think. But of course my car feels faster in acceleration since I got Z tube and K&N. I need to drive the Z now to see what I should do.
Re: 350Z springs and structs
Great, glad to see you doing this the right way. Remember, you need to find a 03 Z. I'm positive that the suspension was changed on the 04 Z's to improve the ride quality so it would not be a just comparision because what you'd be able to buy would be 03 parts, not 04 parts. And don't count on the salesman actually knowing if they changed the 04 suspension or not.
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 527
Likes: 0
Re: 350Z springs and structs
The biggest problem lies here, I am a 20 year old KID if u like to call me that and u know salesman don't like to trust us. And the thing is that if I want to test drive, I would have to be whined a lot for it. It is also hard to find a 03 right now I think.
Re: 350Z springs and structs
a while back, i took gsedan35's advice and got the 350Z suspension. all i can say is, its great. but then again, i dont give a rats *** about ride quality. a story:
the other day, i was driving on the freeway going speedlimit...well a bit over at 80. and i changed lanes and was pretty close to the car in front of me...i have a habit of cutting it really close. the dumb *** gardner truck driver decides it would be a good idea to change lanes without checking his blindspot and without signaling, i quickly turned more to compensate for his dumbass and barely missed hitting him. i beleive it was in part, due to the quick response of my suspension. i remember my old sport suspension was a bit laggy in that respect.
G35S 6MT
Technosquare ECU
350Z Springs & Struts
6-wire ground kit
the other day, i was driving on the freeway going speedlimit...well a bit over at 80. and i changed lanes and was pretty close to the car in front of me...i have a habit of cutting it really close. the dumb *** gardner truck driver decides it would be a good idea to change lanes without checking his blindspot and without signaling, i quickly turned more to compensate for his dumbass and barely missed hitting him. i beleive it was in part, due to the quick response of my suspension. i remember my old sport suspension was a bit laggy in that respect.
G35S 6MT
Technosquare ECU
350Z Springs & Struts
6-wire ground kit
Re: 350Z springs and structs
Yeah, it's underdampened. Meaning it's struts are valved to soft for the springs its running and that when the pavement gets ruff and when you want the car to hussle, it's not going to be to happy about complying. I've had loaner non sports twice, so I know exactly what your talking about.
Now, the 350Z's struts take you in the opposite direction. They get their performance from dialing in the struts a little to tightly at the expense of ride quality and some bounce.
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)
Now, the 350Z's struts take you in the opposite direction. They get their performance from dialing in the struts a little to tightly at the expense of ride quality and some bounce.
6mt sed
Crawford Pleneum
Injen CAI
Cusco sway bars
350Z springs&struts
Custom true dual exhaust
Nismo header (soon)