How do you guys setup your sway bar?
Front: soft, med, stiff
Rear: soft, med, stiff

What is the effect?
Neutral, Understeer, Oversteer?

 

First had it at stiffest at front and medium on the rear. Big mistake for me because it developed a major push or understeer. Adjusted the front to the softest setting and left the rear at medium. This setup produced better handling for me. You can play around with different setups to dial in your car. For me this setup was better it could be different from what you want.



<font color=blue>04 CB COUPE / WILLOW / PREM PACK</font color=blue>

 

thanx
but kinda weird
stiff in front medium in back would still give the rear a stiffer setting compare to stock but major understeer?
kinda weird

 

He's on Tein Springs, which has a completely different rate than your stockers.


Clint (THX723)

 

I have medium for front and back, no problem here.

2004 Diamond Graphite G35 Coupe 6MT, Premium Package, Aero Package, DVD Nav

2003 Brilliant Silver G35 Sedan Premium Package, Aero Package, DVD Nav

 

does the car feel more rigid when driving it over uneven pavement or rough surfaces?

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
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Yeap it certainly does. You can feel it right away even when going slow like 30 mph.



<font color=blue>04 CB COUPE / WILLOW / PREM PACK</font color=blue>

 

I believe with suspension the rule is, the stiffer your suspension the more traction you get because you keep an even contact patch in both tires during a turn. It all depends on what you want to do. If you dont care about bumps on the road, then go as stiff as you can in front to maximize traction and get less understeer. In turn your car wont ride very comfortably. With the rear, when racing you want a little bit of oversteer so you can power out of a corner so you might want to make the rear a little softer than the front. To get the best traction, the car wont be very streetable in that you will feel every bump on the road.

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2004 G35 Coupe 6MT | OB/Black
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Aren't you also taking some of the "independence" out of the independent suspension this way as well by going stiffer on the sways? I think I am willing to give up a little traction for some stiffness tho and expect my GF will be unhappy buying me another car present for my birthday coming next month - TOO BAD you bastards talked me into another mod!

2003.5 DP 5AT Sedan (E-thing but Nav)
14.2 @ 97.18
Z-Tube
K&N Drop In & Airbox Mod
10 Wire Hyper-Ground
Crawford Plenum (V4)
UR Crank Pulley
Polk EX-3500 Tweeters/Shock Sensor/H-Liner

 

Steve,

I had my settings set at stiffest at front and medium rear when I first installed my sways. Having this setup it made the car push or understeer on turns. The sways was so stiff that I lose traction when I drive aggressively on turns. The slip light on the car keeps coming on so I can't even correct cus the engine power is cut off. Not very fun experience when your expecting the car to do one thing and it does another. If you want the rear to slide you have to let the front turn into the apex or corner. This will not happen if you have major understeer on your car. I set my sways at softest in front and medium on rear. This actually help the car to handle better in turns. It was night and day from the first setup I had. Remember even at the softest setting the front is still 46% stiffer than the stock sways if you put it at the stiffest it will be at 140+ from stock. Believe me that is plenty stiff if you want that setting. You will need slick tires on the race track should you go this setting because all you're going to get is slippage. But then again this is my preference you can do it any way you want. I was just giving you advice on what I experience on the car when I had it at the stiffest settings.



<font color=blue>04 CB COUPE / WILLOW / PREM PACK</font color=blue>

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

thanx
but kinda weird
stiff in front medium in back would still give the rear a stiffer setting compare to stock but major understeer?
kinda weird


<hr></blockquote>
Not wierd at all. Adding roll stiffness in the front will always increase understeer. Adding roll stiffness in the rear will make the car oversteer.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

He's on Tein Springs, which has a completely different rate than your stockers.

<hr></blockquote> That should not make too much of a difference, unless he has changed sping rate from what came with the Tein set. For example if you decide to use stiffer springs in the front only, it would increase front roll stiffness and make the car understeer more. That said, it is possible with a coil-over suspension to weight jack the car to acheive an impact on handling balance. I would guess however, that most people who have the Tein coil-overs set them up for a reasonably level ride height all around, without a desire to change the natural weight distribution of the car.




04 G35s 6MT BS Aero Kit/Nav/Prem
Warning: Objects in Mirror Are Losing!

 

According to the company if the setting is both med front and back it will give the car a perfect Nuetral Balance...

 

I hope we all realize sharing sway bar settings (or other suspension settings for that matter) among different cars' like sharing answers during an exam, only to find out there were several versions of the exams given. Point being, unless you have the similar (need not be exact), spring rate, damper rate, tire stagger (a big one) and alignment specs, those same settings may not work best for you.

In this case, I'm assuming Renesis (the original poster) is coming from stock suspension and tire pieces. My suggestion for him is to start with Medium / Medium then adjust according to his personal preference.


<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>


He's on Tein Springs, which has a completely different rate than your stockers.


<hr></blockquote>
That should not make too much of a difference, unless he has changed sping rate from what came with the Tein set. For example if you decide to use stiffer springs in the front only, it would increase front roll stiffness and make the car understeer more. That said, it is possible with a coil-over suspension to weight jack the car to achieve an impact on handling balance. I would guess however, that most people who have the Tein coil-overs set them up for a reasonably level ride height all around, without a desire to change the natural weight distribution of the car.

<hr></blockquote>
It unfortunately does make a difference. The Tein S-tech lowering springs dramatically alters the stock spring rate bias from an already mild understeering stock to a more pronounced understeering behavior. The magic is in the Front-Rear spring rate bais (ratio) and this goes for sway bars to. This has a big roll in determining whether a car under or oversteers .

The stock coupe is presumed to have the following spring rates (F / R):

5.5 / 6.3 kg-mm (14.5% rear bias)

… compare to Tein's S-Tech rates:

6.4 / 4.9 kg-mm (-30% rear bias!!!)

This, in Glenn's case, meant he's shifted approx. 44% of the spring rate forward (from stock), which surely spelled understeer for him. When he proceeded to add the Hotchkis Sway bar and had set it at Hard/Medium ... it made for a lethal pushing wonder machine. His final setting at Soft/Medium was a wiser choice and indeed, his most recent driving impression *at the limit* supports that.


In response to the “stiffer = more traction”, it’s a little too general and easily misinterpreted. For what we're generally interested, and that is handling balance (under or oversteer) it would suggest the other way around. The harder you sprung a particular corner, the more traction you start with (due to increased weight transfer to that corner) and thus the increased turn-in response people can feel. However, as you begin to turn and load that particular corner, you will have exceeded the traction capacity much sooner, ultimately resulting in understeer (for the front) or oversteer (for the rear). The trick to a neutral handling car is to have both the front and rear let go relatively close to one another. Having said that, jacking the sway bar all the way up to Hard means it's going to make your car feel like a handling machine, due to the greatly improved initial turn-in response, but into the turn, you are actually losing traction. Listen for the tire screeching sound as a tail-tail sign. Some one also correctly pointed out that doing so also makes your 'independent' suspension less independent. Ride quality suffers greatly as the result.

Cheers,

Clint (THX723)<P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by THX723 on 06/08/04 02:00 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

Ideally the springs are set for the front/rear weight ratio. [to hold the body up level]. The multipled by how many degrees of roll you can accept.
Then the ratio of bar stiffness front to rear is derived to set neutrality in dry or if you drive in rain something less than neutral [towards understeer].

Going with slightly wider rear tires with much softer compounds than front allows you to operate closer to neutral in some rain.[ the dry G ability of the tire and road vs. the wet G ability.........0.9 vs 0.7mu..............hydroplanning is not considered just road friction before this occurs.

If 60 lb/in dry [extra sway bar stiffness] is right, 46-30 lb/in wet is usually a better compromise.
In snow ice only 6-7-10 lb/in would be acceptable.

Obviously snow and ice requires tremendous under steer setting.

Normally sway bars are never as stiff as the spring rate at the wheel [ after correcting for the attachment geometry].
Because shocks are never designed to control sway bar added spring stiffness.

The ride feels best when on the street the bars are between 33-45% of spring wheel rate.

Unfortunately the published spring rates tell you nothing about the real rate as seen by the wheels [angle of spring and offset from the center of wheel or attachment distance from hub].

Remember a sway bar setting is only right if the tire road friction is the same as when you tested [setup the system].

Many times the factory will set the front bar stiffness to be tremendous so that there is always understeer no matter what you do with the rear [adding a stiffer bar].

Sometimes a weaker front bar and a only slightly stiffer rear bar is the answer.

 

Glennp,

Maybe I am calculating wrong but how is the hotchkis 46% stiffer in the front on its softest setting as you say over the stock bars. I thought I have read on the softest setting they are 7% or maybe 9% stiffer than stock?