hey guys, i have some questions regarding coilovers... and camber problems

is it true that tein flex coilovers dont need camber kits?

RANDY help out...


or anyone that got coilovers and dont need camber kits... tell me which ones...thanks

 

it's not just Tein Flex, it's any coilover, and some drop springs. depending on the amount of drop that is achieved.

 

I'm confused! I thought you have camber issues with even the slightest drop! (Neffster)

 

Depends on the amount of drop. For the coupe, if you go lower than ~0.7 inches, then I would suggest getting camber kits.

 

Do you really need a coilover that is over a 100% stiffer then the oem springs just for the sake of avoiding alignment fix's. Before you make any choice that employ's that kind of spring stiffness, you really must get a ride and drive off someone with that kit installed in their car. Do not just take someone's word for it that the ride quality is fine, physic's do not lie concerning the law's governing that kind of a increase over the oem springs. I can't stress enough the importance to make your choice as a informed buyer and to know what you want.

That being said, any coilover system that can do a .8" drop on a coupe should be able to align to oem specs. With the use of the 350Z's more aggressive camber specs, we have seen G coupe's come very close to spec in the front and aligned in the rear with the use of SPC's $240 rear camber arm and elongated toe bolt kit.

Tein is one of the few companies that actually tells you outright the min and max drops for all their coilover kits for all applications. Thing is, I rarely see people set their car to the less aggressive drop specs, you'll have to ask yourself if you will truly be happy with a mild drop, many are not.
http://www.tein.com/infiniti.html

 

In order to ponder how a given product can impact ride quality and possibly enhance performance we need to know a few things. Find out the oem spring rates to use as a baseline. Find out the spring rates for the aftermarket springs or coilovers your looking at and well . It will also help to be aware of what coilovers are valved for comfort as it may be important to have or to AVOID. And find out if those springs are linear or progressive.

NOTE!: Any aftermarket 350Z spring will lower a coupe a additional ½” over and beyond the published drop amount for the 350Z. For sedan owners, the same applies to you, except you will gain a additional 1”, not just ½”

 

Oem springs
Front:314 Rear:342

Eibach's as noted (first number is the softer initial rate, followed by the higher final rate)


Eibach 350Z progressive springs
296/384 front 316/421 rear
F +22% R +23% (looking at peak rates only)
Spring stiffness to oem as seen in a right hand corner because of the progressive spring rates, on a linear spring system, like the oem setup use’s, you would NOT see a difference left to right. (reverse for a left hand corner)
RF-6%
RR -8%
LF +22%
LR +23%

Eibach G35 Coupe progressive springs
229/337 front 274/463 rear
F +7% R +35% (looking at peak rates only)
Spring stiffness to oem as seen in a right hand corner because of the progressive spring rates, on a linear spring system, like the oem setup use’s, you would NOT see a difference left to right. (reverse for a left hand corner)
RF -27%
RR -20%
LF +7%
RR +35%

Eibach G35 Sedan
259/334 front 359/413 rear
F +6% R +21% (looking at peak rates and in comparison to a sport suspended sedan)
F +18% R +34% (looking at peak rates only and in comparison to a non sport sedan)
Spring stiffness to oem as seen in a right hand corner because of the progressive spring rates, on a linear spring system, like the oem setup use’s, you would NOT see a difference left to right. (reverse for a left hand corner)
RF -17%
RR +5%
LF +6%
LR +21%
Side Note: The sedan Eibachs were developed on a non sport sedan, they did not use a sport suspended car to do the R&D work.

RSR 350Z springs (just a wee bit progressive F&R, maybe one coil is progressive)
345/417 F+10% R+22%
Transfers +12% roll stiffness to rear

RSR G35 coupe springs (progressive front and rear)
315/315 F+0 R-8%
Transfers +8% roll stiffness to front

Hotchkis 350Z springs (linear springs)
340/330 F+8% R-3%
Transfers +12% roll stiffness to front

Tein S-tech 350z (fronts are progressive, rears are linear)
386/402 F+23% R+16%
Transfers +7% roll stiffness to front


Tein H-tech 350z (fronts are progressive, rears are linear)
358/375 F+14% R+11%
Transfers +3% roll stiffness to front

Tein H-tech G35 coupe & sedan(fronts are progressive, rears are linear)
324/260 F+ 5% R-22%
Transfers +27% roll stiffness to front

Tein S-tech G35 coupe & sedan (fronts are progressive, rears are linear)
358/274 R+14% R-18%
Transfers +32% roll stiffness to front

Tanabe GF210 Series 350Z
336/375 F+7% R+10%
Transfers +3% roll stiffness to rear

Tanabe NF210 Series 350Z
314/353 F+0 R+3%
Transfers +3% roll stiffness to rear

Tanabe NF210 Springs G35 COUPE
297/336 F-5% R-2%
Transfers +3% roll stiffness to front

Tanabe DF210 Springs G35 COUPE
308/353 F-2% R+3%
Transfers +5% roll stiffness to front

Tanabe NF210 Springs G35 SEDAN
297/269 F-5% R-21%
Transfers 17% roll stiffness to front

Tanabe DF210 Springs G35 SEDAN
286/280 F-9% R-18%
Transfers +9 roll stiffness to rear

Kg/mm springs 350Z
DR21 super sport 15mm drop
246/398 front 252/409 rear

Kg/mm springs 350Z
DRacing 30mm drop
252/454 front 252/482 rear





Espelir coupe springs (the U.S. importer recently changed specs, I do not believe the newly listed specs are correct, since the new one's are extremely high. And when I called the company to ask if the springs are linear or progressive, they told me Linear, turn's out they were absolutely wrong, they are in fact progressive. I show the old specs for those reasons, take it with a grain of salt, same thing for the 350Z fitment)
409/460F F+30% R+37%
Transfers +7% roll stiffness to rear

Espelir 350Z springs
381/460 F+22% R+37%
Transfers +15% roll stiffness to rear

Tein Flex (twin tube construction, adjustable dampners
Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload
Spring rates 672/672
Stiffer then oem by F+114% R+98
Transfers +16% roll stiffness to front
Side Note: Extremely high spring rates mean even when the adjustable damping is set as low as possible, you may not find ride quality happiness, several reports of this setups harshness exist Yet a few owner comment’s of a “like stock ride quality” also exist. However given the fact that they use a spring stiffness that’s over 100% stiffer then oem, if ride quality is of concern, either hitch a ride in a car equipped with them or make a different choice. In addition, several review’s have been done by people actually having the original more softly sprung Tein Flex coilovers do not take their comments to mean the same as the one using the current product, the original product specs are listed below under Tein Flex JDM.

Tein Flex JDM specs (can be special ordered est 6-8 weeks delivery)
Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload
Spring rates 560/560
Stiffer then oem by F+78% R+64%
Transfers 14% roll stiffness to front
Side Note: This is the original specs first offered in the U.S. with the Flex, shortly after it’s introduction the specs changed to those listed further above (672/672)


Tein Basic (twin tube construction, non adjustable dampners )
Spring rates 504/504
Stiffer then oem by F+61% R+43%
Transfers +18% roll stiffness to front
Side Note: Excellent value at it’s price point

Tein SS (twin tube construction, adjustable dampners )
(JDM only at this time. 6-8 weeks delivery, come via ship)
Spring rates 392/314-392 (rear’s are progressive)
Stiffer then oem by F+25% R+15% at peak



Tein CS (Monotube constructionad, adjustable dampers )
Special Note: A comfort ride system compare to HKS LS.They are valved and sprung to fullfill their intended mission of offering up improved ride comfort. More specifically their valving will impact the performance they can deliver. And to add, revalving them is extremely expensive if you find they are too soft for you. If you want performance, pick a different Tein offering or pick a different brand.
Spring rates 392/392
Stiffer then oem by F+25% R15%
Transfers +10% roll stiffness to front




Nismo S-tune (twin tube construction, uses progressive springs, especially in rear)
350Z/G35 Coupe
Spring rates 448/504
Stiffer then oem by F+43% R+48%
Transfers +5% roll stiffness to rear




Nismo S-tune (twin tube construction, uses progressive springs, )
G35 Sedan
Spring rates 347/342
Stiffer then oem by F+10% R+0%
Transfers 10% roll stiffness to front

Buddy Club Racing Spec coilovers (Monotube construction, adjustable dampning)
Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload
748/336 to 672 + 280 on dampner
This setup runs 336~672 progressive rate spring at the stock spring location and a 280lbs linear spring on the rear dampner body. Since those differing rear spring locations leverage differing forces to the wheel, here is a look at the setups wheel rates as a percentage of stiffness over oem wheel rates.
Stiffer then oem by F:+238% R: +233% to 331%


Jic Flta-2 350Z fitment (Monotube construction, adjustable dampning)
Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload
Special Note: This setup is known for it’s street ride harshness, but also for track performance
Spring rates560/672
Stiffer then oem by F+78% R+98%
Transfers +20% roll stiffness to rear

Jic Flta-2 G35 coupe (Monotube, adjustable dampning)
Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload
Spring rates 560/560
Stiffer then oem by F+78% R+64% $1750
Transfers 14% roll stiffness to front

Jic Flta-2 G35 sedan (Monotube, adjustable dampning)
Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload
Spring rates 504/392
Stiffer then oem by F+61% R+15%
Transfers +46% roll stiffness to front

Cusco Zero 1&2 (Monotube Zero1=non adjustable dampner, Zero2=adjustable dampner)
Full-length adjustment and height adjustment for separate setting of the height and spring preload
Spring rates 560/392
Stiffer then oem by F+78% R+15%
Transfers +63% roll stiffness to front (no they do not run their rear springs on the dampner body, oem location, seen them on the car with my own eyes.)
Side Note: Thats a awful lot of spring stiffness to move to the front

(Offical word from Bilstein is that all PSS and PSS9 coilovers are on hold pending a redesign of the rear height adjustment system. Also the Bilstein kit's can be set to offer as little as a 1/2" drop for the G35 coupe and 1" for the G35 sedan. I would swap out the progressive spring for a Eibach ESS linear spring, 425lbs in rate)

Bilstein PSS coil over (Monotube construction, non adjustable dampners)
Special Note: Mild spring rates, but Bilstein says the dampners are performance valved
Spring rates 370/240-420 (rear progressive)
Stiffer then oem by F +18% R +23% (at peak rear spring rate)
Transfers +5% roll stiffness to rear

Bilstein PSS9 coilover (Monotube construction, adjustable dampners)
Special Note: Mild spring rates, but Bilstein says the dampners are performance valved
Spring rates 370/240-420 (rear progressive)
Stiffer then oem by F +18% R +23% (at peak rear spring rate)
Transfers +5% roll stiffness to rear




HKS LS+ G35 Coupe (Monotube construction, adjustable dampners)
Spring rates 504/448
Stiffer then oem by F+58% R+29% (rear springs are progressive)

 

Sorry the system would not allow me to do all the post's in one whole post, first time I've ever seen that sort of limitation on any forum before.

 

now that's a thorogh post! lol

 

thanks a lot for all those research...

RANDYSG... I NEED A RIDE IN YOUR CAR TO SEE HOW IT FEELS... who else in so cal that shows up to the chino hills meet got tein flex installed? with edfc even better...

 

Keep in mind that all you and your car cares about is the wheel rate. The wheel rate is the motion ratio squared times the spring rate. The motion ratio is determined from the "lever arm" of your particular suspension set up. For example, the OEM rear suspension of the 350Z/G35 has a very poor (low) motion ratio, because the spring location is far away from the wheel. A coil-over installation on the rear suspension will have a much larger motion ratio (but less than 1.0). On the front suspension, the OEM 350Z/G35 has a coil-over set-up, so the motion ratio doesn't change.

Therefore, we can directly compare spring rates for the front suspension. For the rear suspension, however, we need to know the motion ratio in order to compare wheel rates for standard springs and coil-over springs.

One last thing, for performance driving, the front springs need to be a bit stiffer to prevent the nose from scraping the tarmac under maximum braking on a lowered car!

 

But if I'm not mistaken, just about every coilover setup for the G does not use a true coilover system in the rear (they keep the rear spring in the stock location) - please correct me if I'm wrong!