BiAmping some Boston Acoustic Z6 components with a JL 450/4
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 42
From: Omaha, NE
BiAmping some Boston Acoustic Z6 components with a JL 450/4
As the title states, I am bi-amping a set of Boston Acoustic Z6's with a JL Audio 450/4 amp. I have the 150x2 channels going to the woofers and the 75x2 going to the tweeters.
Considering that I have a JL 10w6v2 powered by a JL 500/1 in the trunk for the sub, what crossover settings on the 450/4 should I go with? In other words, what is the bandpass range for the woofer (on the 150x2 channel), and the high pass for the tweeters (on the 75x2) BA's website is not much help, it merely states the frequency response fot he overall system is 40 hz to 22 khz, but doesn't break down the woofers vs the tweeters.
Any suggestons?
Dave
Considering that I have a JL 10w6v2 powered by a JL 500/1 in the trunk for the sub, what crossover settings on the 450/4 should I go with? In other words, what is the bandpass range for the woofer (on the 150x2 channel), and the high pass for the tweeters (on the 75x2) BA's website is not much help, it merely states the frequency response fot he overall system is 40 hz to 22 khz, but doesn't break down the woofers vs the tweeters.
Any suggestons?
Dave
P.S. I hate you. After reading your posts about bi-amping and running wires, even the one where you funked up your windows (and locks?), my project list now has "Run new audio wires to doors" so I can bi-amp my DLS UP6s. I'm running a 500/5 and the rear channels on it are going completely unused so it's sort of a no-brainer for me 
Unfortunately. Did I mention that I hate you? 
P.P.S. I have no idea about the crossover points.
Unfortunately. Did I mention that I hate you? P.P.S. I have no idea about the crossover points.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 42
From: Omaha, NE
Heh. Sorry that you hate me. I will say that the Z6's sound awesome now that they are bi-amped. I definitely recommend it if you are going for a high end system.
Dave
Dave
Do you have the crossovers that came with the component sets? From component values inside the crossover you could calculate what the different cutoff frequencies were and match those in your amp to start.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 42
From: Omaha, NE
Yes, thats too much work, though, since I allready put them in. I could do that, though, it just requires me to remember more electrical equations than I like. E&M is a part of physics that I dislike.
Dave
Dave
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 782
Likes: 4
From their web site:
(Note: If you don't want to read all this, just pretend you read "Boston Acoustics are putzes")
Q. Can I use an active crossover instead of the supplied Boston crossovers?
A. Replacing the Boston passive network with an active crossover can be problematic. Each component in the supplied Boston crossover is factored into the total acoustic output of the system. When you remove it from the signal chain and directly couple the woofers and tweeters to an amplifier, you will be unable to exactly replicate the properties of a Boston system specific passive network.
Why?
The first point is that the typical active crossover does not allow nearly the flexibility of a passive design. The second point is that we often stagger or overlap the crossover points to achieve a flat response. The actual electrical crossover points for the woofer and tweeter however are generally asymmetric and different on all of the Boston components. Finding an active crossover that will allow you to adjust each of these points independently and tuning it correctly is going to be difficult but not impossible. Just as a note: designing a passive network takes our team of experienced engineers several months to complete.
You will get better performance from your system by paying more attention to the installation techniques and driver placement rather than pursuing the use of active crossovers. There is no substitute for proper speaker placement and solid installation.
Q. What are the crossover frequency and slope of my Boston car speakers?
A. We do not publish this information, as it doesn't tell you anything useful about the crossover. Even if you know the crossover point and slope, you still do not know the type of network (Butterworth, L&R etc) as there are hundreds of ways to develop a crossover. We could build 10 different networks all with 18dB per octave slopes and each at 3000hz and have each one sound very different. And that's not even taking into account for the fact that often our low pass and high pass sections of the network are at different slopes and don't share the same crossover point.
Someone asking us for a crossover point and slope is like someone asking Honda "How do I build and V-Tech and what is the best color?” It's not that we don't want to answer these questions; it's simply a case of there not being a simple answer. If you using an electronic crossover the passive number will not translate to active values (active crossovers to do not have to account for impedance curves). Experimentation is going to lead you to the proper set up for your system.There is no replacement for proper installation, that's why we sell Tweeter...
(Note: If you don't want to read all this, just pretend you read "Boston Acoustics are putzes")
Q. Can I use an active crossover instead of the supplied Boston crossovers?
A. Replacing the Boston passive network with an active crossover can be problematic. Each component in the supplied Boston crossover is factored into the total acoustic output of the system. When you remove it from the signal chain and directly couple the woofers and tweeters to an amplifier, you will be unable to exactly replicate the properties of a Boston system specific passive network.
Why?
The first point is that the typical active crossover does not allow nearly the flexibility of a passive design. The second point is that we often stagger or overlap the crossover points to achieve a flat response. The actual electrical crossover points for the woofer and tweeter however are generally asymmetric and different on all of the Boston components. Finding an active crossover that will allow you to adjust each of these points independently and tuning it correctly is going to be difficult but not impossible. Just as a note: designing a passive network takes our team of experienced engineers several months to complete.
You will get better performance from your system by paying more attention to the installation techniques and driver placement rather than pursuing the use of active crossovers. There is no substitute for proper speaker placement and solid installation.
Q. What are the crossover frequency and slope of my Boston car speakers?
A. We do not publish this information, as it doesn't tell you anything useful about the crossover. Even if you know the crossover point and slope, you still do not know the type of network (Butterworth, L&R etc) as there are hundreds of ways to develop a crossover. We could build 10 different networks all with 18dB per octave slopes and each at 3000hz and have each one sound very different. And that's not even taking into account for the fact that often our low pass and high pass sections of the network are at different slopes and don't share the same crossover point.
Someone asking us for a crossover point and slope is like someone asking Honda "How do I build and V-Tech and what is the best color?” It's not that we don't want to answer these questions; it's simply a case of there not being a simple answer. If you using an electronic crossover the passive number will not translate to active values (active crossovers to do not have to account for impedance curves). Experimentation is going to lead you to the proper set up for your system.
Trending Topics
since you have a dedicated sub, set the w6 anywhere from 80-120 hz and below. You can boost certain frequencies with the 500/1 and I would boost a narrow band around 35-40 hz.
With the 450/4, you should be able to use the hi pass with the 150 watt channels. I would set those approximately 10 hz higher than what you have the sub. IE: if you're cutting off the sub at 100 hz, set the 150 watt channels at 110 hz. You don't want any overlap.
This way, you're letting the right speakers reproduce the right frequencies, which equal better sound reproduction and less distortion, etc.
With the 450/4, you should be able to use the hi pass with the 150 watt channels. I would set those approximately 10 hz higher than what you have the sub. IE: if you're cutting off the sub at 100 hz, set the 150 watt channels at 110 hz. You don't want any overlap.
This way, you're letting the right speakers reproduce the right frequencies, which equal better sound reproduction and less distortion, etc.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 782
Likes: 4
I'd start at 4500 on the mid/tweet handoff. Ideally you could go down to 2400 or so, but the biggest kink is that it's really hard to set those screws precisely without use of an RTA and a pink noise disc.
Do you have access ot any of that?
Do you have access ot any of that?
Originally Posted by el_duderino
From their web site:
(Note: If you don't want to read all this, just pretend you read "Boston Acoustics are putzes")
Q. Can I use an active crossover instead of the supplied Boston crossovers?
A. Replacing the Boston passive network with an active crossover can be problematic. Each component in the supplied Boston crossover is factored into the total acoustic output of the system. When you remove it from the signal chain and directly couple the woofers and tweeters to an amplifier, you will be unable to exactly replicate the properties of a Boston system specific passive network.
Why?
The first point is that the typical active crossover does not allow nearly the flexibility of a passive design. The second point is that we often stagger or overlap the crossover points to achieve a flat response. The actual electrical crossover points for the woofer and tweeter however are generally asymmetric and different on all of the Boston components. Finding an active crossover that will allow you to adjust each of these points independently and tuning it correctly is going to be difficult but not impossible. Just as a note: designing a passive network takes our team of experienced engineers several months to complete.
You will get better performance from your system by paying more attention to the installation techniques and driver placement rather than pursuing the use of active crossovers. There is no substitute for proper speaker placement and solid installation.
Q. What are the crossover frequency and slope of my Boston car speakers?
A. We do not publish this information, as it doesn't tell you anything useful about the crossover. Even if you know the crossover point and slope, you still do not know the type of network (Butterworth, L&R etc) as there are hundreds of ways to develop a crossover. We could build 10 different networks all with 18dB per octave slopes and each at 3000hz and have each one sound very different. And that's not even taking into account for the fact that often our low pass and high pass sections of the network are at different slopes and don't share the same crossover point.
Someone asking us for a crossover point and slope is like someone asking Honda "How do I build and V-Tech and what is the best color?” It's not that we don't want to answer these questions; it's simply a case of there not being a simple answer. If you using an electronic crossover the passive number will not translate to active values (active crossovers to do not have to account for impedance curves). Experimentation is going to lead you to the proper set up for your system.There is no replacement for proper installation, that's why we sell Tweeter...
(Note: If you don't want to read all this, just pretend you read "Boston Acoustics are putzes")
Q. Can I use an active crossover instead of the supplied Boston crossovers?
A. Replacing the Boston passive network with an active crossover can be problematic. Each component in the supplied Boston crossover is factored into the total acoustic output of the system. When you remove it from the signal chain and directly couple the woofers and tweeters to an amplifier, you will be unable to exactly replicate the properties of a Boston system specific passive network.
Why?
The first point is that the typical active crossover does not allow nearly the flexibility of a passive design. The second point is that we often stagger or overlap the crossover points to achieve a flat response. The actual electrical crossover points for the woofer and tweeter however are generally asymmetric and different on all of the Boston components. Finding an active crossover that will allow you to adjust each of these points independently and tuning it correctly is going to be difficult but not impossible. Just as a note: designing a passive network takes our team of experienced engineers several months to complete.
You will get better performance from your system by paying more attention to the installation techniques and driver placement rather than pursuing the use of active crossovers. There is no substitute for proper speaker placement and solid installation.
Q. What are the crossover frequency and slope of my Boston car speakers?
A. We do not publish this information, as it doesn't tell you anything useful about the crossover. Even if you know the crossover point and slope, you still do not know the type of network (Butterworth, L&R etc) as there are hundreds of ways to develop a crossover. We could build 10 different networks all with 18dB per octave slopes and each at 3000hz and have each one sound very different. And that's not even taking into account for the fact that often our low pass and high pass sections of the network are at different slopes and don't share the same crossover point.
Someone asking us for a crossover point and slope is like someone asking Honda "How do I build and V-Tech and what is the best color?” It's not that we don't want to answer these questions; it's simply a case of there not being a simple answer. If you using an electronic crossover the passive number will not translate to active values (active crossovers to do not have to account for impedance curves). Experimentation is going to lead you to the proper set up for your system.
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 42
From: Omaha, NE
Pink noise disk, yes. RTA, no. AC DMM to set input sensitivity on my amps, yes, maybe I could use that? (not really sure in this cause how I could use it to analyze freq response, but maybe I am missing something?)
Dave
Dave
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 1,229
Likes: 42
From: Omaha, NE
Originally Posted by MechEE
They are putzes indeed. Doesn't provide anything useful about the crossover? Now that's some horse ****. I think the cutoff frequencies (taking in to account speaker impedances) alone provides some pretty darn useful information and a great starting point for your own active settings. Sounds like a cop-out to me. They just don't want to publish the info because you could use it against them.
Well, not use it against them, but they are trying to make the case to get their stuff professionally installed. It helps support the installer industry, which I have nothing against, I just like to do it myself.
Of course, el_duderino is a member of that very installer industry, and he is helping out... But in reality, this is just one of those things I like to do myself, not because I can do it better, I just enjoy it.
Dave
Thread
Thread Starter
Forum
Replies
Last Post
Spitfire91104
Audio, Video & Electronics
9
Jan 13, 2011 09:27 PM
Spitfire91104
Audio, Video & Electronics
3
Jan 6, 2011 11:01 AM
