Stoptech BBK... feedback from experience please?
#33
Originally Posted by al503
In fact, going to a larger BBK might actually hurt your stopping distances as the new, larger rotors are usually heavier (especially going from the non-brembo brakes to a large 14" kit) thus increasing rotational mass.
For everyone here:
I'm sure this may have been tossed around this forum a few times but here is out track testing procedure.
http://www.zeckhausen.com/Testing_Brakes.htm
and here is a post that I made on another forum which may bring to light some info about brake systems in general.
Originally Posted by Stoptech
You have to look at what you use your car for to figure out the right upgrades. When a lot of people start to think about brakes they want more "stopping power."
Now "stopping power" isn't really a technical term. What kind of units would you use with such a term? Braking distances are determined by suspension, tires and brakes. Once you start to separate those things you can start to see where things start to matter. Tires have their friction mu's. Brake systems as a whole have brake torque which is measured in ft-lbs. Just like the torque on motor.
Well, you could create a brake system with so much brake torque that you lock up the wheels with barely any effort. But, that would give you something like an on off switch for your brakes. Once you lock up the wheels, your brakes can't do anymore. It's up to the tires. Imagine that on off switch for your throttle? It wouldn't work out too well would it? So you have to have the right amount of brake torque for a good system that would enable you to modulate the brakes. Not only that but brakes are more about balance like suspension rather than "power" like the motor.
There are 4 contact patches that stop the car. The shortest stopping distance comes with all 4 wheels are in sync. The ones that aren't in sync are just going along for the ride and not doing their share of stopping the car. Stock brake systems come with near perfect balance. That's why increased rotor diameter kits using stock caliper don't always work out for the best.
Now you can enter the variable of repeated stops or braking events. Larger rotors with more mass allow for more heat capacity. But, clamping down on a larger rotor means more leaverage and more brake torque which can throw off the balance. Brake torque at the calipers must be adjusted to maintain balance. This can be done through pads, or different sized pistons in the caliper. Pads have a direct relationship with the amount of brake torque at the wheel. The equation for brake torque can be found here. http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/fo...g_dynamics.pdf
So if you want to upgrade your brakes to get more brake torque with less pedal effort, upgrade the pads to something with more mu.
In terms of driver feedback, the stiffer pedal is prefered among driving enthusiasts. You can upgrade the lines and get a better pedal, but the stock single piston calipers had a weakness and it is the amount of flex that they have. Once you start to feel resistance in the pedal and keep pushing, there is something in the brake system that is flexing. A lot of it is in the stock caliper. Big brake kits often provide stiffer calipers which give better pedal feel. You want to find the stiffest caliper possible. Weaker calipers succumb to pad taper or uneven pad wear. The best brake systems out there have little pedal travel. The pedal move a little bit, which is the pads moving up against the rotor. The rest of the effort that goes into the pedal is just pressure which goes directly to the pad.
Now "stopping power" isn't really a technical term. What kind of units would you use with such a term? Braking distances are determined by suspension, tires and brakes. Once you start to separate those things you can start to see where things start to matter. Tires have their friction mu's. Brake systems as a whole have brake torque which is measured in ft-lbs. Just like the torque on motor.
Well, you could create a brake system with so much brake torque that you lock up the wheels with barely any effort. But, that would give you something like an on off switch for your brakes. Once you lock up the wheels, your brakes can't do anymore. It's up to the tires. Imagine that on off switch for your throttle? It wouldn't work out too well would it? So you have to have the right amount of brake torque for a good system that would enable you to modulate the brakes. Not only that but brakes are more about balance like suspension rather than "power" like the motor.
There are 4 contact patches that stop the car. The shortest stopping distance comes with all 4 wheels are in sync. The ones that aren't in sync are just going along for the ride and not doing their share of stopping the car. Stock brake systems come with near perfect balance. That's why increased rotor diameter kits using stock caliper don't always work out for the best.
Now you can enter the variable of repeated stops or braking events. Larger rotors with more mass allow for more heat capacity. But, clamping down on a larger rotor means more leaverage and more brake torque which can throw off the balance. Brake torque at the calipers must be adjusted to maintain balance. This can be done through pads, or different sized pistons in the caliper. Pads have a direct relationship with the amount of brake torque at the wheel. The equation for brake torque can be found here. http://www.stoptech.com/tech_info/fo...g_dynamics.pdf
So if you want to upgrade your brakes to get more brake torque with less pedal effort, upgrade the pads to something with more mu.
In terms of driver feedback, the stiffer pedal is prefered among driving enthusiasts. You can upgrade the lines and get a better pedal, but the stock single piston calipers had a weakness and it is the amount of flex that they have. Once you start to feel resistance in the pedal and keep pushing, there is something in the brake system that is flexing. A lot of it is in the stock caliper. Big brake kits often provide stiffer calipers which give better pedal feel. You want to find the stiffest caliper possible. Weaker calipers succumb to pad taper or uneven pad wear. The best brake systems out there have little pedal travel. The pedal move a little bit, which is the pads moving up against the rotor. The rest of the effort that goes into the pedal is just pressure which goes directly to the pad.
#36
Damn Monkey, you are throwing money left and right into your car!!
I was wondering how these brakes compare to the stock brembo's on feel and fade. I went to auto-x this weekend and drove the car hard and felt no real fade in the stock brakes. And I was stomping on the brakes from 60mph sometimes.
I was wondering how these brakes compare to the stock brembo's on feel and fade. I went to auto-x this weekend and drove the car hard and felt no real fade in the stock brakes. And I was stomping on the brakes from 60mph sometimes.
#38
Originally Posted by Dan_K
Damn Monkey, you are throwing money left and right into your car!!
I was wondering how these brakes compare to the stock brembo's on feel and fade. I went to auto-x this weekend and drove the car hard and felt no real fade in the stock brakes. And I was stomping on the brakes from 60mph sometimes.
I was wondering how these brakes compare to the stock brembo's on feel and fade. I went to auto-x this weekend and drove the car hard and felt no real fade in the stock brakes. And I was stomping on the brakes from 60mph sometimes.
Auto-X doesn't really put punish the brakes that much. Tracking the car is a lot more punishing due to the higher speeds and much longer sessions.
Energy = 1/2 x Mass x Velocity x Velocity
In terms of Auto-X you will have better pedal feel(from a stiffer caliper), better pad selection, and slightly adjusted brake bias for better performance.
#39
#41
Join Date: May 2005
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Originally Posted by Dan_K
Damn Monkey, you are throwing money left and right into your car!!
I was wondering how these brakes compare to the stock brembo's on feel and fade. I went to auto-x this weekend and drove the car hard and felt no real fade in the stock brakes. And I was stomping on the brakes from 60mph sometimes.
I was wondering how these brakes compare to the stock brembo's on feel and fade. I went to auto-x this weekend and drove the car hard and felt no real fade in the stock brakes. And I was stomping on the brakes from 60mph sometimes.
Ha, I'm going broke because of all of you! Got me hooked on this forum!!! But seriously, I am done after my BBK. I actually had a plan for my G when I bought her. I sold my bike last year so I gotta have some kicks right?
#43
#44
StopTech - I need to be replacing my brake pads soon and I might want to change out my rotors. I am thinking of changing them to cross-drilled stoptech's, which is a cheaper alternative to getting a bbk. How do these compare to oem brembo blanks? What brake pads do guys suggest with your rotor's as well?