As many of us know, when we disable the "VDC", something is still functional which keeps kicking in during high speed manuvers.

Someone mentioned that the owner's manual states that "disabling the VDC does not disable the "Electronic Brake LSD" or the ABS".

Someone else mentioned that they thought that it was the "EBLSD" that keeps kicking in when VDC is turned off.

I now believe they were correct in what they said (with one exception).

Because I had to send one of my iForged rear wheels back due to a manufacturer's defect, I had to put a matching set of wheels/tires on the rear. These tires are only 235mm wide. My front tires are the iForged wheels with 255mm wide tires.

Set up like this, it is <font color=red>very</font color=red> easy to break the inside rear tire loose. Just floor it when turning right at a stop sign/light.

The inside rear wheel will break loose as soon as the G rolls to the left unloading this wheel and reducing traction.

Since this is very easy to do with the VDC on, here is what I've observed:
1) "Slip" light blinks.
2) Throttle input is cut.
3) The ABS channel for the outside front brake is pulsed, not the inside rear tire as I originally thought. This makes sense because the throttle is being cut in order to stop the spinning and the braking of the outside front wheel is intended to keep the rear end of the G under control. This is SOP for ESP systems. Pulse the outside front brake when a potentional "oversteer" situation is encountered and pulse the inside rear brake when a potentional "understeer" situation is encountered.

This is identical behavior, except for the "slip" light, to that experienced during high speed cornering with the VDC turned off.

Comments? Anyone else come to the conclusion that the "EBLSD" is the culprit?

I'm going to mention the one exception in another thread.

 

so the lsd is the problem or is the eblsd different from the lsd all together? so a change to a aftermarket lsd [if and when they make] would do the trick to get the vdc to turn totally off?

Ordered: 2004 G35 Coupe 6MT * Diamond Graphite * Graphite Leather * Premium Package

 

EBLSD = Electronic Brake LSD. It's not a real mechanical LSD -- the car doesn't have one of those. It fakes it by applying the brake to the slipping wheel to force power to the other wheel. Of course, the results in less total power to the ground than with a mechanical LSD.

It also apparently interfers with the fun factor when one wants the VDC system off.

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

I don't know, but I assume that even if you have the 6mt with the true LSD or you upgrade the rear diff to a true LSD (whether the $1,600 OEM LSD or another aftermarket manufacturer's LSD), you still have the "Brake LSD" system. There's nothing connecting the physical LSD with the VDC/TCS/ABS computers which would tell them to stop performing the "Brake LSD" algorithms. Meaning that even though a true "LSD" helps to maintain traction in most situations, the "Brake LSD", or VDC or TCS, algorithms could still "decide" that there is a "Spinning Wheel" condition and engage the ABS channel for a wheel. We don't know how the "Brake LSD" algorithms decide that there is a "Slip" occuring. The owner's manual states that it is the TCS which determines a loss of traction and flashes the "Slip" light. It is the VDC which decides what is happening to cause this loss of traction and what to do about this loss. There are many different "traction loss" conditions and levels of "traction loss". Even a minor difference in the expected rotational speed of one of the wheels, as compared to the expected rotational speed of the other wheels, could cause the VDC, the TCS or the "Brake LSD" to engage the ABS for one or more brakes. What delta in the rotational speeds will cause one or more of these systems to engage? I don't know. How are the rotational speeds of the wheels determined? I don't know but I suspect that it is just a magnetic interrupter, not an optical interrupter, a laser, radar or sonar (being sarcastic here). How sensitive is this magnetic interrupter detection sensor? To what resolution does this sensor determine rotational speed? Is it possible that these sensors are not sensitive enough, too sensitive, generating false signals? How many accelerometers are there? Are they generating false signals? Is it possible that the algorithms which compare these signals are improperly written (I.E. a software bug, my favorite culprit) Again, I don't know.

My conclusion, based on empirical observations and combinations of turning the "VDC Off" via the switch or pulling the VDC fuse, is that the "Brake LSD" system, and/or the VDC, and/or the TCS, is still working, regardless of the state of the switches and fuses, and that it will still interfere with the handling of the "G" in certain (but not all) situations.

The only things I did not try is to 1) pull the ABS fuses (there are two of them) 2) pull the fuse(?) for the TCS.

Since I want ABS with "VDC Off" or the VDC fuse pulled, I didn't pull the two ABS fuses. (Didn't matter anyway since, on my "G", the ABS was disabled if I turned the "VDC Off" or pulled the VDC fuse.)

Since nobody with an FSM (hardcopy, softcopy or CD) has responded with what fuse controls the TCS. I did not pull any other fuses in order to try and discover which one controls the TCS. I did not pull fuses randomly because this could create unpredictable, if not disasterous, results. If I knew what fuse it was, I could have disabled the TCS (which doesn't function anyway in a straight line "loss of traction" situation or when I turn "VDC Off" or pull the VDC fuse) and maybe, I said maybe, disable the "Brake LSD".

Since other folks have responded that their ABS does continue to function with the "VDC Off" or with the VDC fuse pulled, I have to conclude that my G35 Coupe has a problem with one or more of these computer controlled systems and/or rotational sensors and/or accelerometers. Combine that with other problems (such as dozens of paint chips, the G's pulling to the right, broken seat rail, squeaky brakes, chattering windshield wipers, an adaptive Transmission Control module that prefers the "Granny" modus operandi and an automatic transmission that goes "clunk" when it downshifts into 1st gear when in "ManuMatic" mode) I came to the conclusion that I'd bought a "Lemon".

So, rather than go through the hassle of getting all of my G35's problems fixed, my decision was to buy a Mercedes Benz CLK500 last night. Let someone else fix the "Screamin' Daemon".

My G35 Coupe is gone after only 7.088 months of ownership.

She's been replaced with the "D'Luxe Daemon". More powerful, faster and definitely more luxurious than the G35 Coupe 5AT. And yes, much more expensive. You pay for what you get.

 

Good luck with your new car. In your shoes, I would probably have gone with a Bimmer. [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

Ha!

Sure, I could have gotten an M3 coupe for less. Only problem is that it is smaller inside than the G35 Coupe. I don't fit! [img]/w3timages/icons/crazy.gif[/img]

I can sit in this CLK500 even though it has a "sunroof". A "sunroof" on the G35 prevented me from buying one until the local Infiniti dealer got a "roofless" Coupe "straight off the boat".

The CLK500 has marginally less leg room, a bit more shoulder and hip room (regardless of the specs, this is a personal impression) and <blink><font color=red>no</font color=red></blink> "B" pillar! Oh, yea, no bolsters under my thighs or poking me in the back. Yes, absolutely, the G35 bolsters really kept me in place during high speed manuvers. (But the bolsters got help from the fact that my left arm was jammed against the door and my right side was jammed against the center console.) But man, those side bolsters really were a "pain". Literally. Yes, I have to stick my left elbow out against the door when cornering right and I have to rest my left elbow on the center console (which I can raise up by about three inches) when cornering left, but hey, at least it's not painful. [img]/w3timages/icons/cool.gif[/img]

I could mention the power telescoping steering wheel, power seat back adjustment, automatic seat & steering wheel recall, etc., ad. nauseum, but I won't.

 

I test drove a 330i. A little too small for my family. I was thinking more along the lines of a 530/540i 6-speed.

Yeah, the pillars in the G35 do tend to block vision. Does the CLK have side curtain or side head protection airbags? I'm guessing that's why the G35's pillars are so fat.

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

I've gotta have a "Coupe". With the fact that I've got to have the seat tilted <font color=red>way</font color=red> back, the "B" pillar of a sedan is right next to the side of my face. I test "sat" a C320 sedan. My left shoulder was jammed up against the "B" pillar and the left side of my face was less than an inch away from that same pillar. Made me feel claustrophobic (which I'm not) and put me in danger of a concussion if I take a right hand corner or turn a little too fast. [img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img]

And, yes, there is a side bag in the door and a side curtain in the overhead. I'm not certain (I spent the night driving around, not reading the manual [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]), I may have been reading about another car, but there may be knee airbags as well.

And, yes, the standard stereo (with the optional 6 CD changer) is <font color=red>awesome</font color=red> compared to the standard stereo my Coupe had. The problem with the Coupe was either the speakers or the acoustics. I listened to "Classic Rock" radio last night (and I don't listen to the radio since DJ's decided that they were celebrities) and CDs this morning on my way to work.

Errrr, aahhhh, methinks I've talked to much about the CLK on this G35 forum. Don't want to upset anyone (yea, right). I guess I've got to find a MB forum somewhere. Not that there will be anything interesting like "What CAI to buy", "Debadged my Ride" or "Gawd, that's a fugly body kit!" threads to read. Probably just a bunch of AARP members. [img]/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif[/img]

I could buy the "CLK500.COM" domain name, it's available.

Start my own forum. Charge for admission or an annual membership fee (gotta appeal to the "snob" factor [ROTF,LMAO]).

 

Enjoy your new car.

Those of us that are true car enthusiasts can appreciate the virtues of the CLK500, even if it is a Mercedes. [img]/w3timages/icons/tongue.gif[/img]

2003.5 G35 Sedan Desert Platinum/Graphite Premium/Sport/Aero/Nav/Winter

 

not a fan of mercedez(im a sports car guy hardcore, my G is pushing it) but the clk500 is damn sweet and if i had to pick a benz it would definitely be a clk, but one i could afford.

-moooooo

 

suprhulk,
I hope you had test driven the G before you bought it. Realizing that it was uncomfortable for you after you bought it is a bit strange. I understand the clk500 is in a different class, but there is no need to be bashing the G. Good luck with your merc.

G35 Coupe. Diamond Graphite, Graphite, Premium and wheel and Tire package. Zaino Baby.

 

Technicly the G35 and the CLK320 are in the same class. I have seen test of the CLK320 vs the 330i both conv.

 

Nobody can <font color=red>know</font color=red> that something will become painful <font color=red>in the future</font color=red> by test driving in the present.

If you would search all of these forums for the word "bolster" you would see the exact same complaints from many forum members who are <font color=red>smaller</font color=red> than myself.

As for the other problems I listed in this thread, almost all of them are TSBs (and they are many, two of them "bolster" related).

One main problem are the paint chips (search the forum for this topic, be prepared to wait or have the server crash). I have an open file on this problem with Nissan Consumer Relations but I've not persued the matter as I had other more pressing problems with my "G".

The other main problem which I, and possibly others, have with the "G", a problem for which I don't see any near term resolution, is the fact that the VDC/TCS/BLSD/ABS systems, one or more in combination, do <font color=red>not</font color=red> function as documented. (Again, scan the forums for related threads.)

Many on this forum have mentioned encounters with the problem where they/we think that the VDC is still partially engaged even when the VDC is turned off. I've included the fact that, on my "G", the ABS and TCS <font color=red>are</font color=red> disabled via the "VDC Off" switch, contrary to the documentation (I.E. either a documentation problem or a problem with one or more of these systems). Others members have only recently put it on the record that their "G"s ABS still functions with the "VDC Off", unlike my "G".

If I'd known that the VDC/TCS/BLSD systems are <font color=red>not</font color=red> fully disabled when the VDC is turned off (and in my case the TCS is partially disabled and the ABS is fully disabled), then I would not have bought the car. I wanted a high performance, luxury sports car. Not a sports luxury car. I guess I should have bought a Ford GT(40), a Ferrari Enzo or a Lamborghini Murcielago but 1) I can't afford any of them 2) I'm pretty sure that I won't be able to sit inside any of them (since I can't sit in a Z06 I think that's a safe assumption).

Given the fact that I've spent close to $10,000.00 on wheels, tires, performance mods and related labor costs. Yes, I have a right to be disappointed. Especially when I could only get a $256.00 ROI. No body can take that right to be disappointed away from me just because something I've "said" has been misconstrued as "bashing".

I have <font color=red>not</font color=red> "bashed" the "G". I have simply informed other members of this forum of my experiences with <font color=red>my</font color=red> "G".

That is the <font color=red>purpose</font color=red> of a forum. Information exchange. Enlightened readers <font color=red>want</font color=red> to know.

As an aside, joining <font color=red>any</font color=red> forum, and reading threads on that forum, means that you will be disappointed from time to time.

Sometimes someone will mention a problem with whatever subject matter you are interested in and this will cause you some disappointment. This is understandable as none of us want our interests brought into question. Especially if there is a considerable financial/emotional investment involved.

Other times, someone will deliberately attack the subject matter, that is related to the purpose for the forum's existance, due to a loyality/belief/faith in the antithesis of the subject under discussion. This is infuriating behavior but forums are normally open for public debate (except for when a moderator (no-one on this site[img]/w3timages/icons/cool.gif[/img]) is mad with the power of the *DELETE* function). That is the reason for the existance of forums. Information exchange, debate, opinions. They are the "Town Meetings" of the electronic age (note, there have been murders/beatings in public "Town Meetings", haven't heard of any of this on an electronic forum. Suicides on the other hand....).

There are forum posters who have delusions of a higher purpose. That purpose being to "police" forum threads searching for posts where their "faith" (in the forum's basic tenants) is brought into question, at which time they attack the "un-believers". The purpose of these "Thought Police" is not to debate the issue or question the "faith", but to inform the world that the "un-believer" has transgressed. Their mission in life is to vilify, shun, ostracise and even execute the "un-believers". They go on "Cursades" or "Jihads". They burn crosses, churches, synagogues, mosques, etc... They band together with other "righteous believers" under a symbol of their "faith", and/or political party, for that validates their desire to "follow" a "belief", or "leader", and removes from them the necessity of "independent thought".

I leave you now as one who has lost the "faith".

(Yea, that should have been my parting message. [img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img]

But, I just wanted to say that I read the section in my CLK500's owner's manual about the MB's ESP. Yes, one can disable the ESP. This does <font color=red>not</font color=red> disable the TCS or the ABS. But guess what... wait for it... they document that disabling the ESP does <font color=red>not</font color=red> "fully" disable the ESP. It still functions to some degree depending upon circumstances. Disabling the ESP is recommended only when conditions warrant the spinning of wheels in order to extracate oneself from a low traction situation. Situations such as when you are on snow and you have "snow chains" on and you need to "spin" the wheels in order to get the car moving at which time you should re-enable the ESP as it will improve the drivability of your car on snow. Other situations are, trying to get moving on wet, slippery grass or in dry soft sand. However, excessive spinning of the wheels while the ESP is disabled may result in damage to the drive train and is not covered under warranty.

At least I know about it this time (didn't matter, I didn't buy this car to be my elusive dream "luxury sports" car).

I won't be disabling the ESP.

I won't be moding this car. (Except for new iForged wheels as soon as I can send my old ones back to Vince and he can send me Senekas that are custom fitted for the CLK500. Note, I made the mistake of mentioning this to the salesman. He stated that replacing the wheels will void the warranty. I told him about the "Magnuson Moss Act" and we got into a heated discussion which I stopped by stating that this was not between me and him but would be between me and the service manager. Note, I subsequently read in the owner's manual that MB will void the warranty if any wheel or tire change results in a different diameter from the stock tire diameter or width as this will cause the ESP to malfunction and cause damage to the drive train. Such damage will not be covered under warranty.

Hasta la vesta, baby.)

 

suprhulk,
Enjoy your ride. There is a reason they say you get what you pay for. I think we all realize that our car is not perfect, which is reflected in the price. We could have all gone out and bought the clk500, but you have to cough up the extra 30,000 Gs, or whatever the price difference is. For the price the G is the best out there. That's why I was trying to say. Besides, I'll probably get more looks in my G than your clk500. See you around, and thank for sharing YOUR experience in this forum. Good luck!


G35 Coupe. Diamond Graphite, Graphite, Premium and wheel and Tire package. Zaino Baby.