300 hp NA V35??
#46
01-21-2010, 01:16 AM
They CAN be. That's the key word.
What the hell is the point to getting a reading if it off by 40hp. For tuning purposes yes fine, but then you get people thinking their car makes 300 hp when it's making 260. If you using it as something to gauge a an engine mod or a tune then that's great, make up whatever numbers you want just remember, that's not the real power your car has.
I stand by my statement about roller dynos over a hub.
What the hell is the point to getting a reading if it off by 40hp. For tuning purposes yes fine, but then you get people thinking their car makes 300 hp when it's making 260. If you using it as something to gauge a an engine mod or a tune then that's great, make up whatever numbers you want just remember, that's not the real power your car has.
I stand by my statement about roller dynos over a hub.
#47
01-21-2010, 02:36 AM
#48
01-21-2010, 11:45 AM
Actually, you can get a very good increase in power with a reputable performance chip upgrade.
Just beware that there are many "fake" performance chips out there, so its important to get a "real" performance chip.
The following chip is one of those "REAL" performance chips that actually works. Can't beat it for the price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REAL-...Q5fAccessories
Will definitely get you close to the 300hp mark and at the same time get you almost 75mpg. Wow!
Just beware that there are many "fake" performance chips out there, so its important to get a "real" performance chip.
The following chip is one of those "REAL" performance chips that actually works. Can't beat it for the price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REAL-...Q5fAccessories
Will definitely get you close to the 300hp mark and at the same time get you almost 75mpg. Wow!
#49
01-21-2010, 11:55 AM
I trust a roller dyno, majority of cars dyno'd are done on them. Dynapacks have been proven to be off in the past.
That's just my opinion, not really to say they are a lesser quality. If you want to get high reads, dynapack ftw. If you want a legit reading of what your car is actually putting to the ground. You need something on rollers.
Hyunkoon; you would think that, but it really doesn't matter how fast the hub spins, it's how fast the wheels turn on a surface.
Again IMHO
That's just my opinion, not really to say they are a lesser quality. If you want to get high reads, dynapack ftw. If you want a legit reading of what your car is actually putting to the ground. You need something on rollers.
Hyunkoon; you would think that, but it really doesn't matter how fast the hub spins, it's how fast the wheels turn on a surface.
Again IMHO
Really?
Honestly, what exactly does 350rwhp mean, or 400rwhp? Its just a friggin' number to be used for comparitive purposes only.
The only real value in a dyno reading is a relative one. In otherwords, you take a baseline, make a change, and see what effect that change had on the car. And even then, there can be variances as well. Whether its reading 50hp low, or 50hp high, who gives a flying hoot. The only people who really care about "numbers" are those who want to brag or add it to their colorful little signatures like me!
#50
01-21-2010, 01:04 PM
ZOMG da Interwebs.
Legit is obviously a short form of the word "legitimate" meaning to be real.
Read my post above Zack's I already said what I think about using baseline dynos and seeing an increase. But what's the point of bragging rights if your car doesn't make that kinda power? Should I go get my car dyno'd on the highest reading dyno in town saying 310hp and post that in my signature? No because that's not a real number.
That's all I'm sayin', not trying to be sarcastic in that post either.
And I haven't said anything about the amount of power gained by a tune.
Legit is obviously a short form of the word "legitimate" meaning to be real.
Read my post above Zack's I already said what I think about using baseline dynos and seeing an increase. But what's the point of bragging rights if your car doesn't make that kinda power? Should I go get my car dyno'd on the highest reading dyno in town saying 310hp and post that in my signature? No because that's not a real number.
That's all I'm sayin', not trying to be sarcastic in that post either.
And I haven't said anything about the amount of power gained by a tune.
#51
01-21-2010, 01:53 PM
Registered User
ZOMG da Interwebs.
Legit is obviously a short form of the word "legitimate" meaning to be real.
Read my post above Zack's I already said what I think about using baseline dynos and seeing an increase. But what's the point of bragging rights if your car doesn't make that kinda power? Should I go get my car dyno'd on the highest reading dyno in town saying 310hp and post that in my signature? No because that's not a real number.
That's all I'm sayin', not trying to be sarcastic in that post either.
And I haven't said anything about the amount of power gained by a tune.
Legit is obviously a short form of the word "legitimate" meaning to be real.
Read my post above Zack's I already said what I think about using baseline dynos and seeing an increase. But what's the point of bragging rights if your car doesn't make that kinda power? Should I go get my car dyno'd on the highest reading dyno in town saying 310hp and post that in my signature? No because that's not a real number.
That's all I'm sayin', not trying to be sarcastic in that post either.
And I haven't said anything about the amount of power gained by a tune.
#52
01-21-2010, 02:00 PM
#53
01-21-2010, 02:16 PM
Actually, you can get a very good increase in power with a reputable performance chip upgrade.
Just beware that there are many "fake" performance chips out there, so its important to get a "real" performance chip.
The following chip is one of those "REAL" performance chips that actually works. Can't beat it for the price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REAL-...Q5fAccessories
Will definitely get you close to the 300hp mark and at the same time get you almost 75mpg. Wow!
Just beware that there are many "fake" performance chips out there, so its important to get a "real" performance chip.
The following chip is one of those "REAL" performance chips that actually works. Can't beat it for the price.
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/REAL-...Q5fAccessories
Will definitely get you close to the 300hp mark and at the same time get you almost 75mpg. Wow!
#54
01-21-2010, 02:17 PM
Again with these terms. Just what does "legit" or "realistic" actually mean? Both are subjective terms with no scientific definition whatsoever.
#55
01-21-2010, 02:18 PM
Sure, dyno's initially were created to be a "RULER" to measure HP/TQ output. They were then used for a much better purpose - tuning.
When you start by saying that roller dynos are legit and others are not, you make yourself look very ignorant. I've been on multiple roller dynos and a hub dyno. They can all vary extremely. Each is is calibrated differently and have the ability to adjust with corrections. To say that all dynopacks are the same isn't correct either. Just because Church's dyno reads so much higher than others doesn't mean that all dynopacks will read 40 HP higher.
You consider roller dynos legit only because you feel that you can measure your car vs others more accurately...but in the end the only way to do that is to measure cars based off the same dyno.
When you start by saying that roller dynos are legit and others are not, you make yourself look very ignorant. I've been on multiple roller dynos and a hub dyno. They can all vary extremely. Each is is calibrated differently and have the ability to adjust with corrections. To say that all dynopacks are the same isn't correct either. Just because Church's dyno reads so much higher than others doesn't mean that all dynopacks will read 40 HP higher.
You consider roller dynos legit only because you feel that you can measure your car vs others more accurately...but in the end the only way to do that is to measure cars based off the same dyno.
#56
01-21-2010, 02:22 PM
IMHO, if someone is dynoing at 300hp at the wheels, they should take it to the 1/4 track and see what it can realisticly do (if they can get to one and drive decent). Ultimately, what you want is a faster car. If my car dipped into the 12s on the 1/4, I could care less if it showed 230 rwhp on whatever dyno.
And yes, I need to qualify that by stating with reasonable daily driven type modifications.
And yes, I need to qualify that by stating with reasonable daily driven type modifications.
#57
01-21-2010, 02:33 PM
Those terms refer to the opposite of fake, made up numbers.
#58
01-21-2010, 09:56 PM
I have to agree with 4DGS, a dynojet artificially raises the HP output, a "legit" measurement is how many watts are transferred through the wheels to the ground, "wheel HP". Sure any dyno that can produce repeatable results is a valuable tool for tuning and the dynojet excels here. The problem is, like the guy here in this thread, some walk away thinking they are making 40 more HP than they are and will swear up and down that they are making 300 whp on an intake and a tune.
Wiki quote:
Wiki quote:
True / Effective horsepower (chassis dynamometer)
True horsepower (THP), Effective horsepower (EHP) and wheel horsepower (whp) are the brake horsepower converted to useful work. In the case of a road vehicle this is the power actually turned into forward motion as measured on a chassis dynamometer. Power available at the road is generally 10% to 20% less than the engine's actual bhp crankshaft rating due to vehicle related parasitic losses, much of which is due to the vehicle's rubber tires rather than true transmission losses. Aside from adding simple dyno parasitic drag, there are no additional power adding factors and power is corrected using appropriate atmospheric correction factors.[14]
For railway locomotives the terms drawbar horsepower or equivalent drawbar horsepower (EDHP) refer to the power available to haul a train. This is synonymous with the Effective horsepower.[15] This figure takes into account the horsepower needed to move the locomotive, which is not available for hauling the train. The rail horsepower is the power at the wheels of a locomotive, directly comparable to the wheel horsepower of a road vehicle.
[edit] Dynojet horsepower / DJHP (chassis dynamometer)
Dynojet horsepower is a marketing hp scale that was created to read higher than True / Effective horsepower.[16] They were successful in getting the magazines to accept the inflated numbers and are now the de facto standard for retail magazines. In the 100 djhp area, djhp is about 15% higher than True and in the 200 djhp, it's 18% to 20% higher.[14] Most chassis dyno results that are published by magazines are djhp, causing confusion, as there is True hp, djhp and "estimated djhp". Commonly, the wide range of power sometimes reported is due to the error of djhp vs "estimated djhp" vs. the actual, unmodified True hp. DJHP is not "RWP" or "wheel power", it has its own factored up hp scale. Dynojet hp is always an inertia loaded sweep test.
Front-wheel drive cars (provided a transverse engine layout is used) suffer slightly lower coastdown losses due to the absence of the beveled crown and pinion gears used to change the drive direction in the back axle of a RWD car.[17]
True horsepower (THP), Effective horsepower (EHP) and wheel horsepower (whp) are the brake horsepower converted to useful work. In the case of a road vehicle this is the power actually turned into forward motion as measured on a chassis dynamometer. Power available at the road is generally 10% to 20% less than the engine's actual bhp crankshaft rating due to vehicle related parasitic losses, much of which is due to the vehicle's rubber tires rather than true transmission losses. Aside from adding simple dyno parasitic drag, there are no additional power adding factors and power is corrected using appropriate atmospheric correction factors.[14]
For railway locomotives the terms drawbar horsepower or equivalent drawbar horsepower (EDHP) refer to the power available to haul a train. This is synonymous with the Effective horsepower.[15] This figure takes into account the horsepower needed to move the locomotive, which is not available for hauling the train. The rail horsepower is the power at the wheels of a locomotive, directly comparable to the wheel horsepower of a road vehicle.
[edit] Dynojet horsepower / DJHP (chassis dynamometer)
Dynojet horsepower is a marketing hp scale that was created to read higher than True / Effective horsepower.[16] They were successful in getting the magazines to accept the inflated numbers and are now the de facto standard for retail magazines. In the 100 djhp area, djhp is about 15% higher than True and in the 200 djhp, it's 18% to 20% higher.[14] Most chassis dyno results that are published by magazines are djhp, causing confusion, as there is True hp, djhp and "estimated djhp". Commonly, the wide range of power sometimes reported is due to the error of djhp vs "estimated djhp" vs. the actual, unmodified True hp. DJHP is not "RWP" or "wheel power", it has its own factored up hp scale. Dynojet hp is always an inertia loaded sweep test.
Front-wheel drive cars (provided a transverse engine layout is used) suffer slightly lower coastdown losses due to the absence of the beveled crown and pinion gears used to change the drive direction in the back axle of a RWD car.[17]
#59
01-25-2010, 08:08 PM
#60
01-26-2010, 09:31 AM
Yup here is a dyno from my wife's car. This shows before and after a tune using an emanage ultimate. I bring a guy down from new hampshire to Atlanta to tune twice a year for the s2000 Atlanta club.
She has a ztube, Stillen exhaust and that is it. The rest of the gains are in the tune.
fyi, I have a Stillen exhaust for sale in the FS section. It is a gen 1 but sounds more like a gen2 because the middle resonators were swapped out to ones that flow just as good but absorb more sound.
She has a ztube, Stillen exhaust and that is it. The rest of the gains are in the tune.
fyi, I have a Stillen exhaust for sale in the FS section. It is a gen 1 but sounds more like a gen2 because the middle resonators were swapped out to ones that flow just as good but absorb more sound.
And she is pulling about 285whp???
