Hydrolock from CAI?
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From: East Bay, Cali
Sedan
Originally Posted by iampaul
Hydrolocking is real. It's a real concern.
I was in the passenger seat of my friend's RSX-S during heavy rain when he was going up a hill and down the hill. As he was going downhill, there was a huge puddle that he hit. The water did a tidal wave action and completely swallowed the car. Next thing you know, the car sputters, stalls and dies out.
You don't have to cross a river to hydrolock. Just a small wave of water that gets sucked into the intake will destroy your engine. There will be heavy rain wherever you live one day in your life, and that one time is all it takes for you to wreck your engine. "I've had a cold air intake and I never hydrolocked during rain" stories aren't going to protect your engine. It's effectively saying the same thing as "I've had unprotected sex and still haven't gotten AIDS nor have gotten her pregnant" It's bound to happen.
If you must, get a bypass valve for the intake, as for the rest, you're better off staying away from it, especially for a G35 coupe. The gains are minimal, and all you are is paying for the sound and maybe 4 HP difference. And if that sound is worth wrecking your engine for, then by all means be ready to shell out for a new engine. I do agree though, if the rain is always soft where you live, you won't be hydrolocking anytime soon, but for others, the threat is real.
I was in the passenger seat of my friend's RSX-S during heavy rain when he was going up a hill and down the hill. As he was going downhill, there was a huge puddle that he hit. The water did a tidal wave action and completely swallowed the car. Next thing you know, the car sputters, stalls and dies out.
You don't have to cross a river to hydrolock. Just a small wave of water that gets sucked into the intake will destroy your engine. There will be heavy rain wherever you live one day in your life, and that one time is all it takes for you to wreck your engine. "I've had a cold air intake and I never hydrolocked during rain" stories aren't going to protect your engine. It's effectively saying the same thing as "I've had unprotected sex and still haven't gotten AIDS nor have gotten her pregnant" It's bound to happen.
If you must, get a bypass valve for the intake, as for the rest, you're better off staying away from it, especially for a G35 coupe. The gains are minimal, and all you are is paying for the sound and maybe 4 HP difference. And if that sound is worth wrecking your engine for, then by all means be ready to shell out for a new engine. I do agree though, if the rain is always soft where you live, you won't be hydrolocking anytime soon, but for others, the threat is real.
So for all of you worried about hydrolocking your G's REMOVE YOUR CAI IMMEDIATELY! I'm f*cking sick of hearing about this crap.
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Originally Posted by Hraesvelg
lol, has there even been a case of hydrolock on the G's or Z's?
Paranoid people should leave their cars stock and deal.
Paranoid people should leave their cars stock and deal.
I personally saw a G coupe at Orlando Infiniti that went through 'what appeared to be a small, shallow puddle' and the engine was toast. Last year (when FL was getting nailed with 4 hurricanes) The Infiniti Dealership in Tampa had either 6 or 8 G's some with and some without CAI's that all experienced hydrolock.
If you still don't believe me, do a search on here and on my350z.com and you'll get a dozen or so hits where people have experienced this phenomenon.
Hydrolock is real, it does happen, PERIOD. The big problem is that sometimes you simply don't know how deep that 'puddle' in front of you really is...
Here’s a good write up from my350z.com that some of you may find interesting…
Hydro-Lock - "Hydro-Lock" is a not so common occurrence that can happen. If the intake, (any intake system) takes in a large amount of water it will seize the motor. Small amounts of water will actually burn clean. So how do you know when is too much? That is the tough part. If you consider where the filter is located behind the bumper, I would estimate that it is roughly 8-10" inches from the ground depending on how low your car is. If the filter has no choice but to breathe in water, this is the problem. So with that in mind, the water level would have to be submerging the filter, at least by a good portion of the filter surface for it to inhale water. That is why people have been using secondary filters (bypass systems), this allows for the secondary filter to open once the primary has been clogged, thus water will not go up. I would not worry too much, but do keep in mind that it is a problem that is a little blown out of proportion and is a way for company's to make a little extra money, although it really does happen... sometimes.
Last edited by neffster; Jun 6, 2005 at 08:05 AM.
There is no doubt.....it can happen.
If you live in an area of the country that is prone to hurricanes and or flash flooding, you might not want to consider installing one.
However....where I live, we very very rarely have either....
The top of my filter is a good 12" off the ground.....so that would be one deep puddle to completely submerge it.
The point of the original post is that I really don't think you have to worry about driving in a rain storm.
If you live in an area of the country that is prone to hurricanes and or flash flooding, you might not want to consider installing one.
However....where I live, we very very rarely have either....
The top of my filter is a good 12" off the ground.....so that would be one deep puddle to completely submerge it.
The point of the original post is that I really don't think you have to worry about driving in a rain storm.
CAIs work really well. If you're worried... get a bypass... if you're still worried then just get a short ram or pop charger. Driving through heavy rain won't damage the engine. Either way don't go flying through HUGE puddles.
Originally Posted by WomBadtz
do they make a by pass vavle for the Injen CAI?
You just get the AEM 3" Bypass and replace the connector boot just before the MAF...
Originally Posted by lucidazn
Let's say you remove the stryofoam behind the bumper and have the cai exposed through the vent. Driving 3 hours in heavy rain @ 70 won't hydrolock the engine? The engine is sucking, rain is attacking it, wouldn't that be enough to mess things up? Won't water eventually reach internals?
There is already water reaching the internals. H2O is a byproduct of the combustion process.
What happened to the RSX mentioned in this post and what many people "think"" is hydrolock, is actually NOT! Hydrolock is when the engine itself (cylinders) sucks up and fills up with water (ONLY water) and being that it (the engines pistons) cant compress the water, the engine locks up and dies out. Now what happened to the RSX is that yes it probably got a little water into its CAI and the MASS air sensor got wet, which caused the stutter. The MASS air sensor has heated electroids that cool off when air is passed through it (thats how it determines how much air is passing by, thus telling the computer how to trim the air / fuel and spark ratio). If those electroids get wet, your car will stutter and die out. That is NOT hydrolock people! If you let it dry out a bit, the car will start right back up and everything will be fine. A hydrolocked engine will NOT start back up! The water must be taken out by one the spark plug, or if the damage is great, total engine rebuild! Getting a little water into your engine wont hurt it. Do you think the gas you buy has ZERO water in it? Guess again! Also, anyone familar with water injection for supercharged and turbo application. You actually inject water / methanol combination into the engine and it helps increase power by acting as a cooling agent. YES H2O into your engine! All in all this Hydrolock thing has scared and misled so many people in this forum!
Once and for all I hope to cear the air in this subject, the ONLY way you will hydrolock your car is if you sit in a huge puddle (atleast 1-2' high), small lake, pond, or river that totaly covers the air filter and then you idle or rev the engine up (sucking up ONLY water and NO air). Then you "may" hydrolock your engine. So you pretty much would have to be an idiot to hydrolock your car. Getting your MASS air sensor wet is NOT hydrolocking! If you run a low CAI, thats subject to getting wet, then YES you run the risk of getting your MASS air sensor wet, but just like most performance mods, its a give and take business. You're gonna take that risk. Plainly put a CAI is NOT designed for rain use, no mattter what anyone tells you! With an open element air filter, you're just asking for problems when it comes to anything to do with water. It just goes with the turf!
I hope this will clear the air once and for all with all this hydrolock concerns. Hydrolock = nothing but water in the cylinders = engine cannot turn over. MASS air sensor getting wet (90% of the time what happens and people think its hyrdolock) = engine stutters, puts, and dies out.
Once and for all I hope to cear the air in this subject, the ONLY way you will hydrolock your car is if you sit in a huge puddle (atleast 1-2' high), small lake, pond, or river that totaly covers the air filter and then you idle or rev the engine up (sucking up ONLY water and NO air). Then you "may" hydrolock your engine. So you pretty much would have to be an idiot to hydrolock your car. Getting your MASS air sensor wet is NOT hydrolocking! If you run a low CAI, thats subject to getting wet, then YES you run the risk of getting your MASS air sensor wet, but just like most performance mods, its a give and take business. You're gonna take that risk. Plainly put a CAI is NOT designed for rain use, no mattter what anyone tells you! With an open element air filter, you're just asking for problems when it comes to anything to do with water. It just goes with the turf!
I hope this will clear the air once and for all with all this hydrolock concerns. Hydrolock = nothing but water in the cylinders = engine cannot turn over. MASS air sensor getting wet (90% of the time what happens and people think its hyrdolock) = engine stutters, puts, and dies out.
Last edited by ducatiguy; Jun 12, 2005 at 11:15 AM.
I had a 98 Maxima that was lowered. I recently got it back from the dealer for some work and had the stock intake back on the car. This was around late 98 when San Antonio, Texas had a bad rain storm. Roads that don't flood did. I was coming home from a friends house, and it started to down pour so hard I couldn't hardly see. One of my main roads I took, flooded (which has never flooded), so I took another route through a neighborhood. Came to a point where there was flowing water as high as a curb. I had to go through that and I heard my belts going crazy. I wasn't even going fast. I made it through and found out that other route was also no go. I was like man. So I turned around went the same way I came from, and next time I hit that water flow, the engine cut off and I coasted to the side. I was able to start it back up and white smoke and a loud hammering noise was emiitting from the engine. I had to get it towned home, then to the dealer Monday. Water soaked the stock intake box, ruined the engine. The stock intakes on these cars are prone to get water into them for the location they are at. Supposely the water bounced up and down the radiator till it got just enough into the box and engine to hydrolock it. Oh well. Insurance paid for it.
I've heard all about the Maxima problems with "water getting into the air box" but ask any service tech and its often the cause of the drivers poor use of judgement. I mean you cant blame the little old lady who is trying to get home and drives through a "water flow or lake" not knowing what she is doing, but a performance enthusiast who knows better, then he or she is just an... well ok I'll refrain from making that coment, but i think you all know where I was going.
The maximas air box is actually pretty high up, at minimum 2' off the ground (even on a lowered car). The water would have to have traveled up (on its own) the rad body, over the front chassis brace, through the angled slip into the air box, totally soaking up the air filter (oh and lets not forget about all the water thats draining out of the air box, being that it and most air boxes have vents on the bottom), then passing up the windy air inlet track, finding its way through the I assume 95% closed throttle body since most would just crawl through such a condition (possibly through the tiny IAS passagge) and ending up filling one or more cylinders.
Could it happpen? Sure, but not without driver error! At one point or another, there had to be a good increase in throttle (vac pressure), because at idle or "parking lot cruising", you simply wont be able to pass enough water through the throttle body, not to mention build enough vac to pull that much water (in a rain storm that is, unless you have the whole air box and inlet track under water) through the air filter and through the inlet track. In fact, at idle the throttle body is closed on most cars and the "idle" is kept by the IAS motor, which controls a small passage way in the throttle body. If you didnt idle trough the puddle, well then you were asking for it. If you were on a hill and had no choice but to gas it and the water flowed in, then it was your bad. Once again, poor driver judgement. You can't blame the car, or the rain. If the cars modified, then use caution in the rain. If the rain is that bad, then don't drive in it or take that route.
I'm sorry but I've followed many posts similar to this one, and they all have one thing in common, a driver we felt he or she could pass through a body of water that was in their mind questionable and or in a vehicle that was highly modified. When in doub't, bail out. Don't risk it...
The maximas air box is actually pretty high up, at minimum 2' off the ground (even on a lowered car). The water would have to have traveled up (on its own) the rad body, over the front chassis brace, through the angled slip into the air box, totally soaking up the air filter (oh and lets not forget about all the water thats draining out of the air box, being that it and most air boxes have vents on the bottom), then passing up the windy air inlet track, finding its way through the I assume 95% closed throttle body since most would just crawl through such a condition (possibly through the tiny IAS passagge) and ending up filling one or more cylinders.
Could it happpen? Sure, but not without driver error! At one point or another, there had to be a good increase in throttle (vac pressure), because at idle or "parking lot cruising", you simply wont be able to pass enough water through the throttle body, not to mention build enough vac to pull that much water (in a rain storm that is, unless you have the whole air box and inlet track under water) through the air filter and through the inlet track. In fact, at idle the throttle body is closed on most cars and the "idle" is kept by the IAS motor, which controls a small passage way in the throttle body. If you didnt idle trough the puddle, well then you were asking for it. If you were on a hill and had no choice but to gas it and the water flowed in, then it was your bad. Once again, poor driver judgement. You can't blame the car, or the rain. If the cars modified, then use caution in the rain. If the rain is that bad, then don't drive in it or take that route.
I'm sorry but I've followed many posts similar to this one, and they all have one thing in common, a driver we felt he or she could pass through a body of water that was in their mind questionable and or in a vehicle that was highly modified. When in doub't, bail out. Don't risk it...
Umm no. Mine incident was not drivers poor judgement by any means. It was poor Nissan design intake. The water was no higher than a curb. Other cars were going through it faster than me. But also my car was lowered with H&R springs so it wasn't stock height. When the radiator was hitting the water where does it go? It goes up. It's like you pushing snow with a snowplow, it just keeps going higher and higher the more you push it. Well that is what happened without me knowing it. It got enough into the airbox through the filter into the intake to staul the engine. It takes less than a pinch of water to hydrolock a engine. You don't have to soak the air filter to get water past it.
I hate people who post comments like Ducati did. He has no clue the design, or what happened at the time of these issues come up. But for sure the Nissan scoop design is poorly designed.
I had a friend when this happened in Dallas check his 97 Maxima. They had a large amount of rain and he was driving around town at the time. He said no puddles, just heavy rain. Guess what, he had water in his box as well, and this really started to freak a lot of people out. Maybe if I had my CAI on the MAxima which pulled air from the fender sealed compartment, that would have never happened.
I hate people who post comments like Ducati did. He has no clue the design, or what happened at the time of these issues come up. But for sure the Nissan scoop design is poorly designed.
I had a friend when this happened in Dallas check his 97 Maxima. They had a large amount of rain and he was driving around town at the time. He said no puddles, just heavy rain. Guess what, he had water in his box as well, and this really started to freak a lot of people out. Maybe if I had my CAI on the MAxima which pulled air from the fender sealed compartment, that would have never happened.
No clue huh? For the record, most everyone at any given time gets water into their air box, even in stock form and yes even SUVs. It will and can happen, that is the reason why you'll find "drain vents" in them. I only state what I know, nothing more, nothing less.
You CANT hydrolock your engine with "just a pinch of water" unless you're talking about a remote control cars gas engine, in fact If you like, I would be more than happy to start my car up while on video (MPG), and drop in a pinch into the air track. Lets see what happen? I'll put money on it that it will run through just fine. You may see something in terms of a lean out condition, if you had hooked up a scan tool and or "tuned out" the exhaust gas, but it'll be just fine. A small amount of water, although true cant be compressed, will burn out in the combustion process. Its all a matter of placement and proportion to that of the chamber mixture of air and fuel, hence the reason why YOU CAN inject water into your engine when you're under boost (not to mention most of it evaporates under the extreme heat as soon as it enters the engine).
Hydrolock is when one or more cylinders are completly or close too, filled with water, which then the engine goes into extreme stress to compress the water (which it cant) so things either break or simply just lock up. The water has no where to go and so the engine cant turn over and it siezes. When you get a small amount of water into your engine, it will burn out. Don't believe me? The next time you're on the road and see a car blowing white (not blue) smoke, guess what? That car is burning water, and its more or less a pinch (drop or two). When you suck in a little water into your engine, the water will atomonize when it enters the intake, its normal due to the heat. This breaks down the water into smaller dropletsm which means it gets dispersed among the cylinders, so no one cyclinder (usually) gets more or less than another. Thats how intakes are designed (maybe not our G's as some of us have found out) but for the most it is the case. If all that water entered in without the precense of air or fuel and got directed to just one cylinder, I could see how a small amount of water could maybe cause a problem, but thats like slim to none.
You can also look into water injection and once again second guess your "a pinch will hurt your engine" theory, as a water injection system sprays MORE than a pinch into your engine. They do combine it with methanol, but needless to say, its still at minimum 50-70% H2O.
Listen, I'm not here to knock you, but if you're gonna throw something up on this board, be prepared to get hit back with the good, the bad and the ugly. We all have our 2 cents, and I never said you didnt know what you were doing or talking about and by all means I would have never said anything like "man I hate people like you". By stating it was poor driver judgement is not something to take as an insult! We ALL make poor driving decisions and we learn from our mistakes. God knows I have. So before you "BASH" out someone by saying I hate people like....., try and see where they're coming from and if what they're talking about is true or not.
My offer to throw a pinch of water into my engine while its running is still on the table. Heck I'll even do it after the air filter. LOL
You CANT hydrolock your engine with "just a pinch of water" unless you're talking about a remote control cars gas engine, in fact If you like, I would be more than happy to start my car up while on video (MPG), and drop in a pinch into the air track. Lets see what happen? I'll put money on it that it will run through just fine. You may see something in terms of a lean out condition, if you had hooked up a scan tool and or "tuned out" the exhaust gas, but it'll be just fine. A small amount of water, although true cant be compressed, will burn out in the combustion process. Its all a matter of placement and proportion to that of the chamber mixture of air and fuel, hence the reason why YOU CAN inject water into your engine when you're under boost (not to mention most of it evaporates under the extreme heat as soon as it enters the engine).
Hydrolock is when one or more cylinders are completly or close too, filled with water, which then the engine goes into extreme stress to compress the water (which it cant) so things either break or simply just lock up. The water has no where to go and so the engine cant turn over and it siezes. When you get a small amount of water into your engine, it will burn out. Don't believe me? The next time you're on the road and see a car blowing white (not blue) smoke, guess what? That car is burning water, and its more or less a pinch (drop or two). When you suck in a little water into your engine, the water will atomonize when it enters the intake, its normal due to the heat. This breaks down the water into smaller dropletsm which means it gets dispersed among the cylinders, so no one cyclinder (usually) gets more or less than another. Thats how intakes are designed (maybe not our G's as some of us have found out) but for the most it is the case. If all that water entered in without the precense of air or fuel and got directed to just one cylinder, I could see how a small amount of water could maybe cause a problem, but thats like slim to none.
You can also look into water injection and once again second guess your "a pinch will hurt your engine" theory, as a water injection system sprays MORE than a pinch into your engine. They do combine it with methanol, but needless to say, its still at minimum 50-70% H2O.
Listen, I'm not here to knock you, but if you're gonna throw something up on this board, be prepared to get hit back with the good, the bad and the ugly. We all have our 2 cents, and I never said you didnt know what you were doing or talking about and by all means I would have never said anything like "man I hate people like you". By stating it was poor driver judgement is not something to take as an insult! We ALL make poor driving decisions and we learn from our mistakes. God knows I have. So before you "BASH" out someone by saying I hate people like....., try and see where they're coming from and if what they're talking about is true or not.
My offer to throw a pinch of water into my engine while its running is still on the table. Heck I'll even do it after the air filter. LOL
Last edited by ducatiguy; Jun 12, 2005 at 02:17 PM.
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