What? have you driven a standalone EMS? You are kidding right? Try find someone with a Vpro and tell me if it doesn't feel stock when driving. hhmm even with a reflash, your A/F will be set to around mid to low 11's when on boost so how is that going to change the emission? Dont tell me the Reflash will run the same A/F as the stock ECU... I don't know why you are such a fan of a reflash and yet non of the Pro shop will recommend them FI'd cars. Gees, you call the Fcon, Haltech a band aid fix???? spending $4k on EMS is a band aid to you I think you have no idea on our cars!!

Edit:

Tell my how your Almighty Reflash tune for the Street were altitude change and how can it tune every load point on the Map? Unless you have a load base dyno and you spend 20hrs of tuning every load point then how many flash are you going to do?

 

I understand how the utec works But does it work with the on board diagnostics and emissions?

 

when you are not on Boost the ECU takes control of everything since you are NA at that point. Once you hit boost Utec take full control of the Injector using pulse width with its own table for fuel and it has its own table for timing that will use without any interference from the ECU. Let us go to the next level and that is a Full Standalone (FCON, Haltech, Pro-efi), these EMS has greater resolution and can auto adjust themselves when something got changed and much more control.

 

Yes I have, Point is this takes alot of time to tune right. It will fail emissions because they can not plug into the diagnostic ports, and the big picture is cost. How many people here want to spend $3000 to tune there car after they spent $6000 to buy the kit?

Have you driven a car with a stock computer that The parameters been changed? Most new stuff including the G has much faster processors, parameters, etc. in the ecu that many stand alones dont offer. Pro shops are there to make money "Period". I am just looking to make things run smooth good drivabilty and make the car haul ***.

The stock set up in the G35 has air temp sensors, barometer, etc. The stand alone, you have to buy these things and most of them cannot support them. How does the stand alone compensate for this. most pro stuff is for the pro that constantly make changes for different climate. The stand alone has a base map to get the car running. The stock ecm already runs and drives with no issues.

You are absolutely right. I agree with you. You still have to do this with a stand alone. My opinion is if you can make the changes with the stock ecm what would you need the stand alone for.

$600 or so for reflash
$3000 plus install and many hours of tuning.

Tough choice.

 

So this is a piggyback

What Changed? most ems make the car run what you have programed it to do. If it alters it than what is the use of a stand alone? Is this a race car now or do you drive it on the street. I know the stock ecm can do all that most of these can do. Just by looking at the software for the stock ecm reflash stuff.

 

Your tune most not be right. I would go back and have someone tweek the UTEC. If you get a reflash you would have to tune the UTEC again. The flash would change many parameters to make it right so now the utec would be tuned for you previous set up. these system fight each other this is why you want one or the other.

 

You seem you know a lot about cars but you seem to forget you are talking about a different car here and it took years and many blown motor before all this pro shop and EMS manufacture re figure out what works...

 

There are bigger diameter mafs that can be used. Most of them take the stock sensor and install them ithe the bigger tube. These cars have been around for some time and certain people are dedicated to make it possible.

 

You can look at it that way but a most piggyback only scale what the ECU value, meaning it just add/subtract from that. Utec don't care what the ECU run since it has its own specific value regrdless of ecu. For example, with a piggyback (emanage, unichip, ss..etc) you can set to subtract 10 at 4000rpm and 8psi on your timing map, what if the ecu decide to run higher timing?

For example, the most timing advance you want to run at peak tq is 13-14 deg, on the day of tuning you saw that the ECU like to run 18 deg advance at 4000rpm and 8psi, now you set your Map to subtract 6. Now the weather got a lot hotter and the ECU decide to run only 15 deg timing advance. Now your map is still subtracting 6 so now you are loosing more power. With Utec you have a specific number there regardless of ecu. It maybe safe but subracting to much will also race your EGT...

 

Car has 6 pistons and 24 valves right! This has been around for many years. Im sure many pro shops have blown up motors I dont disagree. All people who make ems systems dont care what the factory Ecu does, because they are not "there"(ecu). When you go to this extreme you fall into a money pit. This is what people try to avoid when its there weekend driver.

 

Have you worked with Utec? why will it change? Utec will run its own timing regardless of what the ECU wants when on boost Utec could care less what the ecu wants, ECU can cry all he wants and there is nothing it can do since Utec control the injector and Timing 100%. I wanted the flash since I do get knock on ECU control and not under Utec control at around 27000rpm and 32000rpm and that is all. If I do get knock under Utec then I can always tweak the Utec Map to add fuel or pull timing.

 

When you scale for injectors you have to deal with the idle and low rpms so there are some alterations done with the UTEC also. Car will not run properly with 550 or 750 cc injectors unless you scale them. The UTEC only knows to pull back 6 degress at 4000 rpm and 8 psi. It cannot take away less timing because that is what the UTEC is controling ( 6 degress of timing)

 

Do you have larger injectors? If you do then the car has been "scaled" for them. The should be able to take less fuel out or timing Whatever the issue would be. The Utec stil has to trick something to make it work properly. Most piggybacks work the same way.

 

NO.. Piggyback add/subtract to the ecu value but not utec. For example, at 4000rpm and 8psi, my Timing Map has a value of 13 in UTEC (that's around my peak TQ), this mean my car will run 13 deg advance at 4000rpm and 8psi regardless of what the ecu wants. This is what I meant of total control. With a piggy back you just subtract or add from the ECU to get the value you want, this is not the case with utec and that is why it is consider a parallel EMS and not a plain old piggy back. Utec also will scale a bigger injector and that is through the 0 column. If you are not on boost, the Utec will run the 0 column of your Fuel Map for fueling and the rest of the column will have a specific pulse width numbers to control the injectors. This is what I meant that Utec has its own values that the tuner can predefine to use without under the mercy of the ECU. If I want 15 deg timing advance at redline then that is what I will get! You know ECU change value depend on temp//octane/altitude right, well I don't want to depend my tuning on what the ecu will run.. get it?

Also Utec has an active Knock control, meaning if it detect knock, then you can set it to pull timing on your own terms. When knock is detected, ecu tend to panic and pull a lot of timing than what it should so performance suffer. I can also do my own logging with utec so I can review the data later own.

Utec cost $800-$900, a cookie cutter relfash cost $600.. now you still need to tune your car if you are FI'ed with a reflash so what are you saving? With utec, you get the logging capability, Active knock control, be able to do minor adjusment...

 

I understand how this works. If you minus or subtract on a piggyback it will bring you to the same point everytime too. No matter what the ecu says. in my opinion If you still need the stock ecu its a piggy back..

Stock ecu can do this. Check these guys out for data logging im sure youve seen them.
http://www.uprev.com/
They have real time datalogging also.

UTEC does not come with a ready to go tune for your car. You still need to pay for tuning. If the reflash was done properly you would be all set. To get more out of it then you would have to tune the reflash. They should still set you up with a safe program.