Let's talk nitrous oxide
#1
04-06-2004, 11:58 PM
Let's talk nitrous oxide
OK - so I've been looking at nitrous recently, just curious - ya know. I am always surprised that many people think that Nitrous is actually "explosive" and is injected with fuel... so here's a little Nitrous 101 to get this discussion going:
Nitrous oxide (N2O) is a colorless, non-flammable gas with a sweetish odor, commonly known as "laughing gas", and sometimes used as an anaesthetic. Nitrous oxide is naturally produced by oceans and rainforests. Man-made sources of nitrous oxide include nylon and nitric acid production, the use of fertilizers in agriculture, cars with catalytic converters and the burning of organic matter. Nitrous oxide is broken down in the atmosphere by chemical reactions that involve sunlight.
How do Nitrous Oxide System work?
Basically when you modify a car to generate more power you always are aiming to do ONE thing and that is burn more fuel in a shorter amount of time. The same with super chargers, forced induction, new cams etc etc, they ALL do the same thing in principal. By burning more fuel you generate higher combustion rates, which causes greater pressure on the cars pistons, therefore pushing them with greater force and of course producing a higher power output. A nitrous kit can out power many basic mods by 25, 50, 100, 250 + bhp there’s no real limit as to what you can add, just depends on your car and its current component build quality.
Will using Nitrous oxide systems damage your car?
NO, a nitrous oxide system does not damage a car at all providing you install the nitrous system properly and use it correctly.
People tend to think that nitrous is fed into the fuel turning it into some super highpower explosive rocket mix. WRONG it is not even flammable. And it does not mix into your fuel supply line. Nitrous oxide is a OXIDIZER there for supplies a quantity of OXYGEN needed to burn additional fuel to make the extra power we need. The nitrous simply acts as a coolant. It really is that simple. The way to harm your car using nitrous is to install it so it uses to much nitrous and not enough fuel, this is known as “running lean” this causes huge amounts of pressure in the engine and also detonation. When you are said to be “running rich” this means you are using more fuel than is required by the nitrous oxide. However running a bit rich is a good thing as you are not likely to detonate your engine. The best method of using nitrous oxide systems is to install it and test the system running very rich, them tune it so you have a smooth power increase and eventually running a little rich, this allows the compensation of bottle pressures rising on hot days, when the bottle is warmer, so is the pressure of the nitrous oxide but the fuel is not. So if you install your nitrous oxide system on a warm day, on a hot day the pressure in the bottle will be greater and therefore you will be more towards the “lean” mixture which you need to stay well clear of.
So why does everybody say it will damage my engine?
Measures must be taken to ensure the safety of both the engine and the driver. This is done by making sure that nitrous oxide can not be used or injected unless the engine is in a condition as where it can accept, and use it conveniently to create more power. The only time a engine can safely do this is when the rpm is above approx 3,500 and the throttle is wide open. This is when a engine is under least pressure and the additional pressure created by nitrous oxide systems will not cause damage.
======================
credits various websites for basic Nitrous info and double checking... primary source:
http://www.nitrous-oxide-systems.co.uk
'03 Sedan 5a: BS/G, Prem, Aero/Body, Sport, Nav
Click for MODS or Vote at Online Showoff
Nitrous oxide (N2O) is a colorless, non-flammable gas with a sweetish odor, commonly known as "laughing gas", and sometimes used as an anaesthetic. Nitrous oxide is naturally produced by oceans and rainforests. Man-made sources of nitrous oxide include nylon and nitric acid production, the use of fertilizers in agriculture, cars with catalytic converters and the burning of organic matter. Nitrous oxide is broken down in the atmosphere by chemical reactions that involve sunlight.
How do Nitrous Oxide System work?
Basically when you modify a car to generate more power you always are aiming to do ONE thing and that is burn more fuel in a shorter amount of time. The same with super chargers, forced induction, new cams etc etc, they ALL do the same thing in principal. By burning more fuel you generate higher combustion rates, which causes greater pressure on the cars pistons, therefore pushing them with greater force and of course producing a higher power output. A nitrous kit can out power many basic mods by 25, 50, 100, 250 + bhp there’s no real limit as to what you can add, just depends on your car and its current component build quality.
Will using Nitrous oxide systems damage your car?
NO, a nitrous oxide system does not damage a car at all providing you install the nitrous system properly and use it correctly.
People tend to think that nitrous is fed into the fuel turning it into some super highpower explosive rocket mix. WRONG it is not even flammable. And it does not mix into your fuel supply line. Nitrous oxide is a OXIDIZER there for supplies a quantity of OXYGEN needed to burn additional fuel to make the extra power we need. The nitrous simply acts as a coolant. It really is that simple. The way to harm your car using nitrous is to install it so it uses to much nitrous and not enough fuel, this is known as “running lean” this causes huge amounts of pressure in the engine and also detonation. When you are said to be “running rich” this means you are using more fuel than is required by the nitrous oxide. However running a bit rich is a good thing as you are not likely to detonate your engine. The best method of using nitrous oxide systems is to install it and test the system running very rich, them tune it so you have a smooth power increase and eventually running a little rich, this allows the compensation of bottle pressures rising on hot days, when the bottle is warmer, so is the pressure of the nitrous oxide but the fuel is not. So if you install your nitrous oxide system on a warm day, on a hot day the pressure in the bottle will be greater and therefore you will be more towards the “lean” mixture which you need to stay well clear of.
So why does everybody say it will damage my engine?
Measures must be taken to ensure the safety of both the engine and the driver. This is done by making sure that nitrous oxide can not be used or injected unless the engine is in a condition as where it can accept, and use it conveniently to create more power. The only time a engine can safely do this is when the rpm is above approx 3,500 and the throttle is wide open. This is when a engine is under least pressure and the additional pressure created by nitrous oxide systems will not cause damage.
======================
credits various websites for basic Nitrous info and double checking... primary source:
http://www.nitrous-oxide-systems.co.uk
'03 Sedan 5a: BS/G, Prem, Aero/Body, Sport, Nav
Click for MODS or Vote at Online Showoff
#2
04-07-2004, 12:02 AM
Nitrous Oxide Kits Explained
<font color=red>Nitrous Oxide Kits Explained </font color=red>
There are number of different nitrous oxide Kits and hundreds of different of configurations for setting them up regarding metering jets, timing etc. Below is a basic explanation of the different systems available. Lots of people ask what is the difference between wet and dry, what is a purge kit and a whole world of complication becomes of nitrous oxide systems.
Wet Nitrous Oxide Kits
Wet nitrous oxide kitis are the most common type of nitrous oxide system used today and it is my preferred choice. It is called a wet system because the additional fuel required by the nitrous oxide is provided by the nitrous kits setup. This is done by routing a additional fuel supply to a fuel solenoid valve which fires the fuel into the engine when the system is activated. Wet nitrous oxide kits are by far the easiest to install and understand as a simple fitting guide for adding additional fuel apply to pretty much all cars where as a dry system does not. Wet nitrous systems could also be described as a feature of a direct port nitrous oxide system, which is described in more detail below.
Dry Nitrous Oxide Kits
Dry Nitrous oxide kits is exactly the same as a wet system apart from the additional fuel needed by nitrous oxide is added from the cars stock injectors. So a fuel solenoid and a additional feed from the fuel line is not needed. Now this seems to be a easier setup to install and your right it is as for as the nitrous oxide system is concerned but you still need the extra fuel to accompany the nitrous oxide. Now a simple fitting guide cannot be supplied for dry nitrous oxide systems as getting additional fuel from the cars injectors can vary from car to car. To produce extra fuel from the injectors you need to either increase the output pressure for the injectors or control the time they are on for via the cars computer management system. Obviously when nitrous oxide kits become active they would have to inject for a longer amount of time.
Direct Port Nitrous Oxide Kits
Direct port nitrous oxide systems use the same setup again as the others apart from the engine side of the system, it is activated and the bottle feed is installed in exactly the same way, even the solenoids. The only difference is the injection method to the engine. When the solenoids are activated the nitrous oxide and fuel still flows out but it takes a alternative route to other systems. Most other systems inject the nitrous oxide and fuel into the air intake manifold. The direct port system injects the nitous oxide and additional fuel into the branch intake manifold. So where the other systems using single point injection will only use one injector nozzle to inject the nitrous oxide and additional fuel, the direct port will use four as one needs to be placed on each branch of the manifold. This is a more complicated setup for nitrous oxide as more complex and time consuming modifications to the manifold must be made. 4 holes approx 8mm need to be drilled into the manifold (one on each branch) for the injector nozzles to be installed. The holes either need to be tapped or have a bung welded above the hole to act as a spacer depending on the internal bore of the manifold branches and also the depth of the nitrous nozzle. The bungs would need to be tapped so that the nozzles can then be screwed into the manifold.
*A bung is basically a nut welded above the holes on the manifold to allow the nozzle to screw into.
Progressive controlled systems
Progressive controlled is the same as a nitrous kit explained above but used with a progressive controller. A progressive controller can be fitted to almost any nitrous oxide system providing that the solenoids are constructed in such a way that they are able to pulse. When we say pulse we mean that the solenoids are continuously turned on and off in a pulsing manner which fires a small amount of nitrou sat a time. Good progressive controllers allow you to program the progression of which it lets nitrous flow through the solenoids. A typical setup would allow you to start with using a small amount on nitrous and then ending up with a constant flow or longer burst of nitrous as the rpm rises.
Progressive controllers are used so that nitrous can be safely injected into the cars engine to create extra power from the start line. Without the progressive controller you can only fire nitrous oxide into the engine when the throttle is wide open and revs are high. When the system is activated and the car takes off, small amounts of nitrous will be pulsed into the engine and larger amounts as the rpm rises.
Personally if you had to have one system I would not have a progressive controller as I like to hit my switch and have a sudden burst of nitrous oxide that makes my head hit the back of the seat and hold onto the steering wheel for dear life, but that’s just my opinion.
Purge Kit Systems
Purge nitrous oxide kits not a type of system in itself as such, it is more of a add on or extra feature that you can add to a nitrous kit or some may even come supplied with the feature. A purge system will allow the nitrous oxide to flow upto the point of injection before using nitrous oxide during a run. This is for 2 reasons, the first is to clear any air trapped in between the outlet of the nitrous solenoid helping to reduce the chance of detonation and secondly is so that when the system is activated the nitrous will have absolutely no delay when reaching the injection point. At the pressure of nitrous oxide I cant imagine there been any difference so I don’t see it as a real advantage.
When you see a car firing 2 huge jets of mist into the air, this is a purge kit. What it is doing is firing nitrous into the air to clear the trapped air out of th lines and bring nitrous to the front. Yes it look pretty impressive but what a waste on nitrous oxide I recon. And lets be honest we love nitrous and value it like gold even though its not expensive, you want every last drop.
======
CREDITS: totally and completely stolen from
http://www.nitrous-oxide-systems.co....oxide-kits.htm
'03 Sedan 5a: BS/G, Prem, Aero/Body, Sport, Nav
Click for MODS or Vote at Online Showoff
There are number of different nitrous oxide Kits and hundreds of different of configurations for setting them up regarding metering jets, timing etc. Below is a basic explanation of the different systems available. Lots of people ask what is the difference between wet and dry, what is a purge kit and a whole world of complication becomes of nitrous oxide systems.
Wet Nitrous Oxide Kits
Wet nitrous oxide kitis are the most common type of nitrous oxide system used today and it is my preferred choice. It is called a wet system because the additional fuel required by the nitrous oxide is provided by the nitrous kits setup. This is done by routing a additional fuel supply to a fuel solenoid valve which fires the fuel into the engine when the system is activated. Wet nitrous oxide kits are by far the easiest to install and understand as a simple fitting guide for adding additional fuel apply to pretty much all cars where as a dry system does not. Wet nitrous systems could also be described as a feature of a direct port nitrous oxide system, which is described in more detail below.
Dry Nitrous Oxide Kits
Dry Nitrous oxide kits is exactly the same as a wet system apart from the additional fuel needed by nitrous oxide is added from the cars stock injectors. So a fuel solenoid and a additional feed from the fuel line is not needed. Now this seems to be a easier setup to install and your right it is as for as the nitrous oxide system is concerned but you still need the extra fuel to accompany the nitrous oxide. Now a simple fitting guide cannot be supplied for dry nitrous oxide systems as getting additional fuel from the cars injectors can vary from car to car. To produce extra fuel from the injectors you need to either increase the output pressure for the injectors or control the time they are on for via the cars computer management system. Obviously when nitrous oxide kits become active they would have to inject for a longer amount of time.
Direct Port Nitrous Oxide Kits
Direct port nitrous oxide systems use the same setup again as the others apart from the engine side of the system, it is activated and the bottle feed is installed in exactly the same way, even the solenoids. The only difference is the injection method to the engine. When the solenoids are activated the nitrous oxide and fuel still flows out but it takes a alternative route to other systems. Most other systems inject the nitrous oxide and fuel into the air intake manifold. The direct port system injects the nitous oxide and additional fuel into the branch intake manifold. So where the other systems using single point injection will only use one injector nozzle to inject the nitrous oxide and additional fuel, the direct port will use four as one needs to be placed on each branch of the manifold. This is a more complicated setup for nitrous oxide as more complex and time consuming modifications to the manifold must be made. 4 holes approx 8mm need to be drilled into the manifold (one on each branch) for the injector nozzles to be installed. The holes either need to be tapped or have a bung welded above the hole to act as a spacer depending on the internal bore of the manifold branches and also the depth of the nitrous nozzle. The bungs would need to be tapped so that the nozzles can then be screwed into the manifold.
*A bung is basically a nut welded above the holes on the manifold to allow the nozzle to screw into.
Progressive controlled systems
Progressive controlled is the same as a nitrous kit explained above but used with a progressive controller. A progressive controller can be fitted to almost any nitrous oxide system providing that the solenoids are constructed in such a way that they are able to pulse. When we say pulse we mean that the solenoids are continuously turned on and off in a pulsing manner which fires a small amount of nitrou sat a time. Good progressive controllers allow you to program the progression of which it lets nitrous flow through the solenoids. A typical setup would allow you to start with using a small amount on nitrous and then ending up with a constant flow or longer burst of nitrous as the rpm rises.
Progressive controllers are used so that nitrous can be safely injected into the cars engine to create extra power from the start line. Without the progressive controller you can only fire nitrous oxide into the engine when the throttle is wide open and revs are high. When the system is activated and the car takes off, small amounts of nitrous will be pulsed into the engine and larger amounts as the rpm rises.
Personally if you had to have one system I would not have a progressive controller as I like to hit my switch and have a sudden burst of nitrous oxide that makes my head hit the back of the seat and hold onto the steering wheel for dear life, but that’s just my opinion.
Purge Kit Systems
Purge nitrous oxide kits not a type of system in itself as such, it is more of a add on or extra feature that you can add to a nitrous kit or some may even come supplied with the feature. A purge system will allow the nitrous oxide to flow upto the point of injection before using nitrous oxide during a run. This is for 2 reasons, the first is to clear any air trapped in between the outlet of the nitrous solenoid helping to reduce the chance of detonation and secondly is so that when the system is activated the nitrous will have absolutely no delay when reaching the injection point. At the pressure of nitrous oxide I cant imagine there been any difference so I don’t see it as a real advantage.
When you see a car firing 2 huge jets of mist into the air, this is a purge kit. What it is doing is firing nitrous into the air to clear the trapped air out of th lines and bring nitrous to the front. Yes it look pretty impressive but what a waste on nitrous oxide I recon. And lets be honest we love nitrous and value it like gold even though its not expensive, you want every last drop.
======
CREDITS: totally and completely stolen from
http://www.nitrous-oxide-systems.co....oxide-kits.htm
'03 Sedan 5a: BS/G, Prem, Aero/Body, Sport, Nav
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#3
04-07-2004, 12:04 AM
Let's discuss
Now... let's here from the juicers here on G35driver.... what do we need to be aware of. Lessons learned? Recommendations for nitrous-newbies?
Let's here about your setups, as well as installation and precautions for 6MTs vs. 5ATs....
Class...?
Bueller? Bueller?
'03 Sedan 5a: BS/G, Prem, Aero/Body, Sport, Nav
Click for MODS or Vote at Online Showoff
Let's here about your setups, as well as installation and precautions for 6MTs vs. 5ATs....
Class...?
Bueller? Bueller?
'03 Sedan 5a: BS/G, Prem, Aero/Body, Sport, Nav
Click for MODS or Vote at Online Showoff
#4
04-07-2004, 01:59 AM
Re: Let's talk nitrous oxide
Nice, I'm actually currently workin on a nitrous project but not for my car, it's for work. I sell compressed gasses and I am finding that a lot of speed shops in the area are selling pure medical grade nitrous. Automotive nitrous needs to be sented with sulfer dioxide to prevent abuse. This is known as Nitous Plus. Check the side of your NOS bottle it should say it. In all reality the sented stuff is no better or worse for your car then the pure stuff, But if some kid decides to "do nitrous" the results can be not that pretty. Just a little knowledge for ya................
#5
04-07-2004, 02:49 AM
Re: Let's discuss
Man! I was hoping to get a good discussion going on this one! Oh well, guess I'll be patient.
_t
'03 Sedan 5a: BS/G, Prem, Aero/Body, Sport, Nav
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_t
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#6
04-07-2004, 06:02 AM
Registered User
Re: Let's discuss
Actually, socal, if you're interested in a "new" nitrous set-up PM me...I have a very trusted friend/car fiend that worked on some projects involving engines and nitrous that i can't really discuss further here and he's looking for a test subject...
"All the Power in the World resides in the Eyes..."
"All the Power in the World resides in the Eyes..."
#7
04-07-2004, 09:09 AM
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Re: Let's discuss
I have a NX setup that's brandnew installed - havent even hit the spray myself on it yet. Give me alittle time and I will post.
Berelin and Pestilence as both running juice on this forum and have given me great advice.
Worth
2004.5 Sedan AT DG/Sport/Flaps/Premium/max tint/Bose/CAI Injen/6 wire ground kit/Custom ECU/Zaino layers=6
next mod: N2O
Berelin and Pestilence as both running juice on this forum and have given me great advice.
Worth
2004.5 Sedan AT DG/Sport/Flaps/Premium/max tint/Bose/CAI Injen/6 wire ground kit/Custom ECU/Zaino layers=6
next mod: N2O
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#8
04-07-2004, 12:25 PM
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Re: Let's discuss
BTW you use wet systems for our cars. Im sure you can try to do a dry system, but no one I have talked to says its the right thing for our car's fuel system and engine. This includes drivers, forums, and shops like SGP Racing in Houston. (SGP is doing mine...nothing like having a premier Nissan tuner 10 minutes from where I live)
Worth
2004.5 Sedan AT DG/Sport/Flaps/Premium/max tint/Bose/CAI Injen/6 wire ground kit/Custom ECU/Zaino layers=6
next mod: N2O
Worth
2004.5 Sedan AT DG/Sport/Flaps/Premium/max tint/Bose/CAI Injen/6 wire ground kit/Custom ECU/Zaino layers=6
next mod: N2O
#9
04-07-2004, 04:33 PM
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#11
08-05-2004, 11:49 AM
Re: Let's talk nitrous oxide
bump... and Mods, can we get this one moved to the FI forum?
cheers, Ted
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cheers, Ted
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#12
08-05-2004, 03:01 PM
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Re: Let's talk nitrous oxide
Thanks for posting SoCalTed. I have been trying to research about nitrous for some time now, and I still dont know that much about it. Great info. I would be interested in hearing other members experiences with nitrous.
Bump
2004.5 6MT Coupe Diamond Graphite/Loaded...no mods(yet)
Bump
2004.5 6MT Coupe Diamond Graphite/Loaded...no mods(yet)
#13
08-05-2004, 03:15 PM
Re: Let's discuss
hey SnM... whatever happened with that new nitrous setup your buddies were working on?
Enquiring minds want to know.
-T
'03.5 Sedan 5a: BS/G, Prem, Aero/Body, Sport, Nav
Click for MODS - www.teamtransport.org
Enquiring minds want to know.
-T
'03.5 Sedan 5a: BS/G, Prem, Aero/Body, Sport, Nav
Click for MODS - www.teamtransport.org
#14
08-05-2004, 03:54 PM
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NOS & ECU
Make sure if you are running NOS, as I am, and you have your ECU flashed make sure they know you are 'squeezin' so they will take the timming advance out. Basically if you have had it flashed already and then are going to do NOS. Get it readjusted.
<font color=blue>'03 Brilliant Silver w/ Graphite Leather Performance Premium Aerokit </font color=blue>
<font color=blue>'03 Brilliant Silver w/ Graphite Leather Performance Premium Aerokit </font color=blue>
#15
08-05-2004, 04:48 PM
Re: Let's discuss
Thanks for the thread Ted. Ironic thing is that I was surfing the net yesterday on the Zex, NOS, and NX sites for info. Totally confusing though.......which kit will be good for the G, what kit options/components are needed/required and what would be good add-on accessories (like cool purge lights and valves, gauges, etc). Lets keep this thread going so I can learn more from people who have successfully or unsuccessfully worked with N2O.
doc
doc