reflash or not before installing the UTEC
#1
08-17-2009, 03:29 AM
reflash or not before installing the UTEC
As I'm in the learning process of fully understanding how the UTEC operates on our vehicles, I would like to master the piggyback system before I go full standalone on my car.
In my research if found a lot of speculations about doing a reflash first before installing the UTEC then tuning it. What is your guys take on this process and would you recommend a reflash 1st before installation of the UTEC.. and what Type of commercial ECU reflash do I go with?
Sources..
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=142
In my research if found a lot of speculations about doing a reflash first before installing the UTEC then tuning it. What is your guys take on this process and would you recommend a reflash 1st before installation of the UTEC.. and what Type of commercial ECU reflash do I go with?
Sources..
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=141
http://forums.nasioc.com/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=142
#5
08-18-2009, 11:12 PM
A proper ECU reflash (based on your injector size) is always preferred. It allows for smoother startups with your big injectors, and smoother/safer transitions from closed to open loop and back again.
The stock ECU has three maps -- 'bad gas', 'standard', and 'advanced'. One of the maps is called the 'advanced' map where it advances timing by several degrees when conditions are right on a NA engine (good gas, cool air, ect). You don't want this map kicking in as you're going into boost before the UTEC has a chance to pull it back again. Most reflashes replace the 'advance' map with a copy of a modified 'standard' map so you don't have to worry about unexpected timing changes.
On one of my street maps the stock (reflashed) ECU runs with up to 4 lbs of boost before the UTEC kicks in. So unless I'm really getting into it, the UTEC isn't doing a damn thing except some fuel trimming. Without a proper reflash, my engine would probably have a hole in it by now given the amount of backroads and track days we do on an almost weekly basis.
The stock ECU has three maps -- 'bad gas', 'standard', and 'advanced'. One of the maps is called the 'advanced' map where it advances timing by several degrees when conditions are right on a NA engine (good gas, cool air, ect). You don't want this map kicking in as you're going into boost before the UTEC has a chance to pull it back again. Most reflashes replace the 'advance' map with a copy of a modified 'standard' map so you don't have to worry about unexpected timing changes.
On one of my street maps the stock (reflashed) ECU runs with up to 4 lbs of boost before the UTEC kicks in. So unless I'm really getting into it, the UTEC isn't doing a damn thing except some fuel trimming. Without a proper reflash, my engine would probably have a hole in it by now given the amount of backroads and track days we do on an almost weekly basis.
Last edited by djamps; 08-18-2009 at 11:19 PM.
#7
08-20-2009, 04:46 PM
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UTEC and unflashed ECU for 2 years. See's all conditions and no issues thus far. I contemplate doing the flash for the reason posted above about the 3 maps. I don't daily drive it and am very particular about where I fill up and being sure everything is in good shape before driving it hard. Hard starts are always an issue with the UTEC, but they rarely keep me from getting the car started when I'm ready to leave. Over the last 2 years I'd say maaaaybe 5 times I've had to sit and wait 10 more minutes before it would cooperate (albeit i got pissed as hell those times, lol).
If you have the extra 500 bones and downtime isn't an issue, go ahead and do the flash. It won't hurt, only help.
If you have the extra 500 bones and downtime isn't an issue, go ahead and do the flash. It won't hurt, only help.
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#8
08-20-2009, 07:54 PM
HuH? How did you set your stock ECU to control the car/boost untill 4psi and let Utec take over after.
#10
08-20-2009, 08:09 PM
You set the cutover point (in psi) in the UTEC. I don't recommend it be done by anyone but a competent tuner. Moving the cutover point requires changing the entire fuel map, basically almost a full retune. You also need your stock ECU flashed (and possibly an upgraded MAF) properly to handle timing and fuel in boost.
#11
08-20-2009, 08:32 PM
You set the cutover point (in psi) in the UTEC. I don't recommend it be done by anyone but a competent tuner. Moving the cutover point requires changing the entire fuel map, basically almost a full retune. You also need your stock ECU flashed (and possibly an upgraded MAF) properly to handle timing and fuel in boost.
#12
08-20-2009, 09:06 PM
The tuner did a retune for both MAF (ECU) and MAP (UTEC) load sites. It's a two part process. On normal cruizing and idle it is perfect 14.7 AFR. it runs a bit rich (11.0) in on ECU from -1 - 4lbs but leans to around 11.5 at 4lbs after UTEC kicks in.
EVC set to 8.3psi on A and 9.3psi on B. Boost cut on UTEC set at 10psi to protect from spikes and so I can't accidentally overboost it with the EVC. Knock detection is also purposely left extra sensitive, although none are ever detected.
Not 'ideal' but the added drivability is well worth it. IMO it's the best mix of drivability and protection aside from a full standalone.
EVC set to 8.3psi on A and 9.3psi on B. Boost cut on UTEC set at 10psi to protect from spikes and so I can't accidentally overboost it with the EVC. Knock detection is also purposely left extra sensitive, although none are ever detected.
Not 'ideal' but the added drivability is well worth it. IMO it's the best mix of drivability and protection aside from a full standalone.
#13
08-20-2009, 09:20 PM
The tuner did a retune for both MAF (ECU) and MAP (UTEC) load sites. It's a two part process. On normal cruizing and idle it is perfect 14.7 AFR. it runs a bit rich (11.0) in on ECU from -1 - 4lbs but leans to around 11.5 at 4lbs after UTEC kicks in.
EVC set to 8.3psi on A and 9.3psi on B. Boost cut on UTEC set at 10psi to protect from spikes and so I can't accidentally overboost it with the EVC. Knock detection is also purposely left extra sensitive, although none are ever detected.
Not 'ideal' but the added drivability is well worth it. IMO it's the best mix of drivability and protection aside from a full standalone.
EVC set to 8.3psi on A and 9.3psi on B. Boost cut on UTEC set at 10psi to protect from spikes and so I can't accidentally overboost it with the EVC. Knock detection is also purposely left extra sensitive, although none are ever detected.
Not 'ideal' but the added drivability is well worth it. IMO it's the best mix of drivability and protection aside from a full standalone.
Pretty sure both mike and jeremy tuned it. They had it on the dyno for a while ironing out the utec "transition" some people have issues with, I guess this one was a little more difficult.
Full boost at 2k rpm btw. Tons of power and torque all the way to redline.
Will post pics/vids once avail.
Full boost at 2k rpm btw. Tons of power and torque all the way to redline.
Will post pics/vids once avail.
You just had reflash ECU to control at idle. Not Flash ECU to control untill "some" psi and let Utec control at after that psi. If that can work like that, SC guys will love it to have Utec. You bascially have stock ECU sensor. You can plug cipher, and can play with utec at 0% colum.
I also do remember your build, AAM TT with JT tuned when he worked at AAM. And you have AAM exhaust, that i remember your picture under the car. great build.
Edit: Btw, once car is tuned. And after if you wants to reflash ECU, your utec needs to get a retune.
#14
08-20-2009, 09:39 PM
Of course, you have the option of handing full control to the ECU in the 0 column by setting timing to ECU and fuel trim to 0 at some or all points. This means we're essentially running an ECU based MAF tune below 4psi, and UTEC MAP tune above 4psi.
You just had reflash ECU to control at idle. Not Flash ECU to control untill "some" psi and let Utec control at after that psi. If that can work like that, SC guys will love it to have Utec. You bascially have stock ECU sensor. You can plug cipher, and can play with utec at 0% colum.
EDIT: I think I see what you mean about SC guys. But keep in mind stock ECU is maxed by 4psi at redline. it is not safe to use stock ECU tuning at higher PSI without upgraded MAF. I am still running stock MAF so 4psi is as high as we went.
I also do remember your build, AAM TT with JT tuned when he worked at AAM. And you have AAM exhaust, that i remember your picture under the car. great build.
Mike did a fantastic job and I am happier than ever with driving it. Best of all I wasn't charged for this.
Edit: Btw, once car is tuned. And after if you wants to reflash ECU, your utec needs to get a retune.
Last edited by djamps; 08-20-2009 at 09:49 PM.