VDC Weird
After getting the headers, cats, MREV+ and sway bars installed, the owner of the speed shop asked me "How the **** do you drive with the VDC kicking in so much?" When I told him that I turn it off, the mechanic looked at him and said "Told you so." Neither had driven a G prior to the post-install test-drive.
The sway bars significantly raised the cornering ability, so I'm sure they were getting the VDC to kick in way too early around most every turn they took. It was bad enough in OEM form.
The sway bars significantly raised the cornering ability, so I'm sure they were getting the VDC to kick in way too early around most every turn they took. It was bad enough in OEM form.
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GT-Ron sounds like you have a lot of experiences on driving. Hope that you are a pro-racer or something, but I recalled that no manual saying that VDC system saves life. It does help to stabilize the car, and also no manual says that u can rely on those systems. So, we're talking about why should it be off for daily driving when VDC helps to stabilize the car incase unexpected things happen.
Originally Posted by GT-Ron
With the VDC on, in the wet, there is an abundance of wheelspin that is allowed in a straight line. Very surprising. As for leaving it off, for me, it has nothing to do with spinning the wheels from a standstill. It's all about how intrusive the VDC is around corners. In stock form it was too aggressive and would cut power around turns long before the car threatened to slide the rear out. I've tested it on the same turn, on and off, so I know how much adhesion is available without VDC. Having the VDC grab a tire and jerk me from my line was much more distracting and unsettling than getting close to or dancing over the edge of adhesion. I've never been fond of upsetting the balance, while cornering, by stabbing the brakes. If something is needed to correct a bad line, I'll gently reduce throttle or gently apply brakes as needed.
I can't imagine how often it would try to step in now that I have the NISMO sway bars on.
Driving with the VDC on isn't the only way to drive safely.
It should never be used as a replacement for common sense and good driving habits. VDC on or off, I'm just not going to be able to convince my body to throw the car into an avoidance move that's going to spin it out. You just can't avoid some things and have to do your best to minimize the impact. If you're going to jerk the wheel enough to put the car into a spin, there's a very good chance that you're going to hit something else, possibly worse, VDC on or not. I've had several close calls over the years, where I missed the collision by 6-12 inches, intentionally. Striving to avoid those by any more distance would have resulted in a spin or put me into more danger. You avoid what you can safely, and then accept that there are collisions you can't avoid. Never do something stupid just because you anticipate that the VDC will save you from yourself.
FWIW, the majority of "I wrecked because VDC was OFF!" posts are made by those who always drive with it on, but they turned it off to have some fun. They have no idea what the real limit is and have been spoiled by having VDC correct their dumb mistakes time after time.
I can't imagine how often it would try to step in now that I have the NISMO sway bars on.
Driving with the VDC on isn't the only way to drive safely.
It should never be used as a replacement for common sense and good driving habits. VDC on or off, I'm just not going to be able to convince my body to throw the car into an avoidance move that's going to spin it out. You just can't avoid some things and have to do your best to minimize the impact. If you're going to jerk the wheel enough to put the car into a spin, there's a very good chance that you're going to hit something else, possibly worse, VDC on or not. I've had several close calls over the years, where I missed the collision by 6-12 inches, intentionally. Striving to avoid those by any more distance would have resulted in a spin or put me into more danger. You avoid what you can safely, and then accept that there are collisions you can't avoid. Never do something stupid just because you anticipate that the VDC will save you from yourself. FWIW, the majority of "I wrecked because VDC was OFF!" posts are made by those who always drive with it on, but they turned it off to have some fun. They have no idea what the real limit is and have been spoiled by having VDC correct their dumb mistakes time after time.
No pro-racer here, just lots of time spent with the tail out over the years.
I've never said that the manual describes the VDC as a life-saving device. But take a look at the replies and you'll see some saying exatly that. That's where my comments stem from.
As far as helping stabilize the car... ...that's pretty much my complaint. It upsets the balance in mid-corner during spirited driving. This occurs during nearly all hard cornering, whereas I have yet to encounter a close call or emergency situation where the VDC would be more beneficial than proper driver inputs during accident avoidance.
While a lot of you take the "Why turn it off for daily driving?" approach, mine is "Why leave it on all the time?" I've given my reasons for leaving it off. If you're using some restraint, you'll never know that it's off until you want it to be off. Just like a normal RWD sports-car from no more than 5-10 years ago. It's no big deal to drive without it... ...unless you're simply not used to it. In that case, use it.
As for the accident-avoidance issue, I've been conditioned to do the proper thing and not make any driver inputs that are going to encourage a loss of control... ...ESPECIALLY when I'm looking at trying to avoid a collision. If you can't avoid it safely, you probably can't avoid it safely even with VDC. So the accident-avoidance argument doesn't hold much water for me... ...unless we're talking about drivers who are likely to overreact when faced with an impending (or possible) collision.
There's very little argument being made about how VDC can be great for the novice or inexperienced. But for those of us who have been driving RWD cars aggressivley since before the proliferation of FWD, the argument for keeping it on is pretty weak.
Now, certainly it would make sense to have the VDC on while running the twisties at a high rate of speed in the wet. Or does it? Should you even be running those type of wet roads at a high rate of speed in the first place? Of course not, but many will, simply because they see the VDC as a replacement for good judgement. For those, it's probably a good thing until they learn better.
It should be noted that I'm not living in a huge, metropolitan area. While I do normal city driving here, there's also a frequent opportunity to crank things up a bit, on a daily basis, which I do. It makes more sense for me not to have the VDC jerking me around during cornering than it does to keep it on all of the time for fear that far-fetched emergency circumstances will arise that will require VDC over proper driver inputs.
A lot of the "VDC saved my life!" or "I crashed because VDC was OFF!" threads are a bit misleading. The VDC tried to correct a bad input, which are usually blatanly novice mistakes in a RWD sports car. VDC is on the G for this very reason. For others, it doesn't have as much to offer.
Certainly nobody is suggesting that the VDC be left on just so you can over-react during accident avoidance. Should it be left on so we can drive ham-fisted and try to throw the car into a spin as we try to avoid a collision at all cost?
I'm not trying to start a fight over this, I'm just expressing my opinion as I know there are a lot of other experienced RWDrivers here who feel the same about the overly-sensitive VDC on the G. From what I understand, a system like that on the Corvette would be much better for me and I would be much more inclined to leave it on.
I've never said that the manual describes the VDC as a life-saving device. But take a look at the replies and you'll see some saying exatly that. That's where my comments stem from.
As far as helping stabilize the car... ...that's pretty much my complaint. It upsets the balance in mid-corner during spirited driving. This occurs during nearly all hard cornering, whereas I have yet to encounter a close call or emergency situation where the VDC would be more beneficial than proper driver inputs during accident avoidance.
While a lot of you take the "Why turn it off for daily driving?" approach, mine is "Why leave it on all the time?" I've given my reasons for leaving it off. If you're using some restraint, you'll never know that it's off until you want it to be off. Just like a normal RWD sports-car from no more than 5-10 years ago. It's no big deal to drive without it... ...unless you're simply not used to it. In that case, use it.
As for the accident-avoidance issue, I've been conditioned to do the proper thing and not make any driver inputs that are going to encourage a loss of control... ...ESPECIALLY when I'm looking at trying to avoid a collision. If you can't avoid it safely, you probably can't avoid it safely even with VDC. So the accident-avoidance argument doesn't hold much water for me... ...unless we're talking about drivers who are likely to overreact when faced with an impending (or possible) collision.
There's very little argument being made about how VDC can be great for the novice or inexperienced. But for those of us who have been driving RWD cars aggressivley since before the proliferation of FWD, the argument for keeping it on is pretty weak.
Now, certainly it would make sense to have the VDC on while running the twisties at a high rate of speed in the wet. Or does it? Should you even be running those type of wet roads at a high rate of speed in the first place? Of course not, but many will, simply because they see the VDC as a replacement for good judgement. For those, it's probably a good thing until they learn better.
It should be noted that I'm not living in a huge, metropolitan area. While I do normal city driving here, there's also a frequent opportunity to crank things up a bit, on a daily basis, which I do. It makes more sense for me not to have the VDC jerking me around during cornering than it does to keep it on all of the time for fear that far-fetched emergency circumstances will arise that will require VDC over proper driver inputs.
A lot of the "VDC saved my life!" or "I crashed because VDC was OFF!" threads are a bit misleading. The VDC tried to correct a bad input, which are usually blatanly novice mistakes in a RWD sports car. VDC is on the G for this very reason. For others, it doesn't have as much to offer.
Certainly nobody is suggesting that the VDC be left on just so you can over-react during accident avoidance. Should it be left on so we can drive ham-fisted and try to throw the car into a spin as we try to avoid a collision at all cost?
I'm not trying to start a fight over this, I'm just expressing my opinion as I know there are a lot of other experienced RWDrivers here who feel the same about the overly-sensitive VDC on the G. From what I understand, a system like that on the Corvette would be much better for me and I would be much more inclined to leave it on.
Last edited by GT-Ron; Jul 13, 2006 at 03:22 PM.
I remember back in the day when cars did not have VDC, you know back when Pepsi was clear. But seriously you should at least have it on in the rain, IMO.
Last edited by Kidcane; Jul 13, 2006 at 07:01 PM.
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From: New England
GT-Ron, Im not against you or anything like that, matter of fact I do agree with what you have said earlier, you are absolutely correct. But Im finding that do ppl really have to take a coner or so; hard enough to have the VDC kicks on? On a wet road or snow yes, so in my opinion is why it needs to be off all the time when our vehicles are equiped, unless track time or little fun in a back roads otherwise its there just incase.
Originally Posted by GT-Ron
After getting the headers, cats, MREV+ and sway bars installed, the owner of the speed shop asked me "How the **** do you drive with the VDC kicking in so much?" When I told him that I turn it off, the mechanic looked at him and said "Told you so." Neither had driven a G prior to the post-install test-drive.
The sway bars significantly raised the cornering ability, so I'm sure they were getting the VDC to kick in way too early around most every turn they took. It was bad enough in OEM form.
The sway bars significantly raised the cornering ability, so I'm sure they were getting the VDC to kick in way too early around most every turn they took. It was bad enough in OEM form.
Hmmm,
Wow, your VDC cuts in that much in stock form and more with the mods??? My sways seem to have helped reduce VDC intervention.
Your car must have a lot more power than my '04 6mt or the 19" OE wheel and Bridgestone tire combo must be pretty tame compared to the OE 18" w/ps's. BTW I am lowered with Z springs, have Dspecs and Stillen sways.
Or perhaps the VDC operation may vary from vehicle to vehicle. As I posted before I find my VDC is not intrusive unless it is around a slow speed sharp corner, lower gear high rpm shifting or near the limit driving on the twisties- all at or near full throttle. Even at the track there is only a couple of sections where it comes on at all.
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Originally Posted by RBull
Hmmm,
Wow, your VDC cuts in that much in stock form and more with the mods??? My sways seem to have helped reduce VDC intervention.
Your car must have a lot more power than my '04 6mt or the 19" OE wheel and Bridgestone tire combo must be pretty tame compared to the OE 18" w/ps's. BTW I am lowered with Z springs, have Dspecs and Stillen sways.
Or perhaps the VDC operation may vary from vehicle to vehicle. As I posted before I find my VDC is not intrusive unless it is around a slow speed sharp corner, lower gear high rpm shifting or near the limit driving on the twisties- all at or near full throttle. Even at the track there is only a couple of sections where it comes on at all.
Wow, your VDC cuts in that much in stock form and more with the mods??? My sways seem to have helped reduce VDC intervention.
Your car must have a lot more power than my '04 6mt or the 19" OE wheel and Bridgestone tire combo must be pretty tame compared to the OE 18" w/ps's. BTW I am lowered with Z springs, have Dspecs and Stillen sways.
Or perhaps the VDC operation may vary from vehicle to vehicle. As I posted before I find my VDC is not intrusive unless it is around a slow speed sharp corner, lower gear high rpm shifting or near the limit driving on the twisties- all at or near full throttle. Even at the track there is only a couple of sections where it comes on at all.
I tested at a lap around the track and it was coming on all the time...
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well i guess it all comes to ur driving habits, u never noe what may happen on the road. Things happen in a matter of a second and before u noe it, it may be too late i personally is not a experienced driver infact i just got my license but then i guess infiniti equipped the vdc on the G for a reason after all its for our own safety, our life is priceless i wun turn it off just cuz it feels better or smoother
Sorry for bumping this, but this thread is absurd. I seriously don't see the big deal having traction control off! Some of you guys would probably pee in your pants driving a RX-7 (FD3S) since it didn't have the option of traction control. "VDC is a lifesaver..." My god that's the dumbest thing I've ever heard.
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