It should have the potential to be quicker.. It will just take some better driving skills to get the full potential out of it.. Probrably not extremely difficult as in the S2K, but then again with the improved 6SP tranny, that may even things out a bit. Any significant differences will be at higher speeds (1/4 mile times and trap speeds). I would imagine 0-60 o be within a couple of tenths of each other.

 

Less than the 04's yes, but the 05's no! I think getting rid of torque in the G was a bad move, i doubt it will be slower but much faster, not at all!

 

HP is a much better indicator of how quickly a car will accelerate than torque is. HP is calculated based on torque and RPM. (HP = [Torque x RPM]/5252). Torque is ALWAYS the force that both accelerates your car and keeps it going. The RPM factor is very important. The shorter the gearing of a transmission, the more the torque is multiplied. Higher RPM's allows you to stay in a lower gear longer, thus actually putting more torque down at the wheels. The higher the level of torque, the faster the acceleration. In any single gear, the fastest accelleration will be observed at the torque peak. But at any given wheel speed, the fastest acceleration will occur when HP is the highest. This is because at that speed, the higher HP will be laying down more torque at the wheels regardless of gearing. This is why even as torque drops off as RPM's rise, the HP still continues to rise. What HP does is account for the mechanical leverage the transmission provides. F1 racecars have relatively low torque compared to their high HP ratings. They run at upwards of 16000 RPM. They make power of about 750 or so HP. 750 HP at 16,000 RPM is only 246 ft-lbs of torque. This is less than our G makes. But consider if you were to gear this motor to redline each gear at the same speeds we do, the torque at the wheels would be insane.

As an example the 6MT G uses a 13.42:1 overall 1st gear ratio which at peak HP of 280(237 ft-lb of torque), would be spinning the tires at 461 RPM and puts out 3180 ft-lbs of torque. If we apply F1 like numbers to the same wheel speed, we would need to use a gear ratio of 34.70:1. at 16,000 RPM, it would run the same 461 RPM, but with a torque output of 8536 ft-lbs. So why is HP a more important to look at? With fairly similar torque ratings, the higher revving motor is putting gobs more torque down to the wheels. HP wins, plain and simple.

 

Actually I think you have to look at the entire powerband to get a good measure of acceleration which includes torque and hp peaks. Just because a car has a better HP at peak may not mean that it has a better powerband overall nor does it mean that the car will accelerate better at all speeds. It does mean however that while the peak torque of the 03/04 is better, the 05 produces better torque in the upper RPM's- thus the reason for more HP. The question is: does that make for a better powerband.
Furthermore you can't separate the calculation of torque and HP. HP is simply the amount of torque an engine with also factoring in the speed of the engine. Torque is a direct reflection of how efficient the engine is working. Torque is horsepower period. That is why S2K owners rev from 6K - to take advantage of the additional torque and to eliminate to portion of the powerband that does not produce the amount of torque needed to meet the full potential of the vehicle. That is also why some cars, while it's peak HP may be at a certain RPM , it's top speed may be limited to RPM's between it's peak torque range and HP range because the engine simply runs out of the needed power to continue to pull the weight of the vehicle against wind resistance and other factors. Yes gearing is important too, but we are probrably talking about cars that are similarly geared.

 

Yes, the entire powerband is important, but when looking strictly at peak numbers, HP will give you a fairly good idea of how quickly a car can accellerate. Torque will not. It leaves too many variables open. And I tend to think of HP as how efficient the torque is(not fuel efficiency). It reflects how well the torque can be used. Hp essentially represents the amount of work done. You can have 10,000 ft-lbs of torque, but if there is 0 RPM you've accomplished nothing. So you get 0 HP and 0 work done. And essentially, 0 efficiency.

As far as the S2000, keep in mind that the overall gearing is shorter than most other motors out there. 1st and 2nd gears still top out at about the same speeds as other cars do. This means it is multiplying the torque more than other cars. So it actually puts down more torque to the wheels than the HP and TQ ratings would suggest.

As far as gearing, consider that if it were the same gear ratios, the F1 motor, would be able to put down similar torque ratings at the wheels as the G, but do so up to 1192 Wheel RPM before having to shift. The G would have to shift to a lower torque multiplication at 461 RPM while the F1 motor would maintain the higher rate of acceleration to more than twice the speed. Of course this is simplified a bit as torque will likely not be completely flat, but the reasoning behind why HP is more important is sound. A better comparison would be the M3, as the torque level is closer to that of the G. And BMW did choose gearing to take advantage of the higher redline and put more torque to the ground. Which is the reason why the M3 is able to accelerate faster than the G. It just simply puts more torque down to the ground overall.


Top speed is limited to the amount of torque to the wheels and aerodynamic drag. While in factory cars little regard is given to top speed when choosing gear ratios. But in Land Speed competitions, proper gearing can make the difference. Ideally, trying to top out at the peak HP point will likely give you the best results(since peak HP is the point you can put the most torque down at any given speed). It's not uncommon to see a top gear ratio that is very closely spaced to the gear just before it in a dedicated top speed car so you stay near the HP peak even before shifting to the final gear.

 

I think more hp will make up for slightly less torque, and possibly be a little quicker.
I doubt there's much difference tho.

 

The 05 is heavier than the 04, so by comparison, they would be pretty even, and the 05 may not be faster.

 

and the MRS is retarded compared to the MR2

 

Semi-Trucks have a lot of torque....but no top end...then again, they weigh a lot more, hehe....I wonder what it's like to have that type of torque in the G?

Anyways, does anyone know how much 10lbs of torque really affects the G? I mean...to me, 10lbs doesn't seem that much, or I'm just pretty stupid. However, the G is heavier based on the numbers given...by the way, has anyone got a chance to actually weigh the 04 and 05 coupes? Probably not yet since the 05's are so new.

 

Semi-Trucks and most workhorse diesel motors have a very different purpose. Their toque peak is designed to be lower as they need to be able to accelerate comfortably with a load a lot more than a typical passenger car. If you were to have say...600 ft-lbs of torque at 2500 RPM you'ld have 285 HP at 2500 RPM. If you have a motor that put out 300 ft-lbs at 5000 RPM, you'ld have the same 285 HP. Both will put the same amount of torque to the wheels if geared so that they run the same speed at the torque peaks. So both motors can pull the same load. But imagine being a truck driving hauling a load across the country at 5000 RPM all day long. Not exactly what I would think of as comfortable. The vibration frequencies would be higher at 5000 RPM as well and likely cause a driver to fatigue faster. Not a good thing when they are hauling 10,000 lbs worth of cargo on a 10,000 lbs tractor-trailer.

And with the new G, yes you lose 10 lb-ft of torque at peak. The 280 HP VQ puts out 237 ft-lbs of torque at 6200 RPM. The 298 HP VQ puts out 244 ft-lbs at 6400 RPM. Can't compare it exactly, but since the HP on the 280 HP VQ will have to be less than 280 at 6400 RPM, it would be safe to assume it would be 229 ft-lbs or less at 6400 RPM. So that means at 6400 RPM you've gained at least 15 ft-lbs of torque. It's probably a little more as the HP would be be slightly lower than 280 at 6400 RPM. So are we actually losing 10 ft-lbs of torque? I'd say we are gaining 15. I'd speculate there might be more gains at RPMs we do not have numbers for(particularly closer to redline). Variable Cam timing on both the intake and exhaust cams tuned correctly can really broaden the torque curve. The slope of the drop in torque will likely be less than that of the 280HP VQ. I wouldn't be surprised if we found more than 20 ft-lbs increase in torque in some areas. Not to mention the 298 HP VQ can rev a little higher so it will be better able to make better use of the torque multiplication. I do not expect to see any drastic changes in acceleration by any means. We are maybe talking about a +/-10 to 20 ft-lb difference at best. The added weight certainly will soak up some of the power, but based on the power to weight ratios, the 05 6MT will likely have a slight increase in accelleration over the 03-04 models.