Just drove the GTO yesterday. It was the only they had in Norristown PA and it was a 4AT. After having a cat and mouse game with a 2005 (hood nostrils) on a twisty deserted road Saturday a.m., and seeing the ads, not to mention I am always in the market for a car that could be better than mine, I decided a trip to the dealer was in order.

I walked into the dealer and got the veteran 40 year pontiac salesman who walked right up to me. I told him the ad compelled me to come in and he hadn't hear of it. I said I was 6 months away from moving into anything and wanted to see if I could start eliminating possibilities and manufacturer's now. In fact I told him I wanted to drive the CTS as well and thought they would be eliminated by the end of the day and that I would prob get a new 2006 325. Some of this is steeped in reality as my wife will need a new car but mostly BS and I am looking for the reasons to get out of the dealer later while seeming like a real customer and not offending a perfect gentleman.

It didn't take long to find some faults. This car is great bang for the buck as long as you don't need BMWness or G drivetrain and chassis refinement. The 4 speed is a joke. No shift control unless you go old school and click into 3D or 2D...WTF. I should have waited for the 6MT to come in, but knowing my new Bride wouldn't ever let that into the driveway I figured I'd go for what I may actually be driving someday.

The interior is OK for as sparse as it actually is. This coupe is a bit small and no sunroof unless aftermarket is just something I can't live with. At my frame sise it was still a comfortable setup inside. The only downfall I can really find quality wise is the HVAC *****. Pontiac still has something to do with it and you can tell on those wobbly pieces. The surprise for me was the turn signal stalk which felt as good as any I have ever felt. Guages were fine and the digital computer readout was audi like and added some needed value.

The 4AT sucks did I mention that. But when you step on it, LSD works well and that thing MOVES. The sound is chronically addictive when you hear it spilling from the exhaust. Redline comes fast and the tranny moves it into the next gear quickly for uninteruppted thrust to whatever speed you think you can get away with.

Not floaty but still not G35 taut or precise. The car feels very american. Reminds one of a muscle car for sure and GM certainly invokes the era. The motor is the thing that had the customers talking.

Not a bad piece for $33,600 sticker with 1000 in "hot button" incentives but I think I'll keep the G for another 6 months.

The Solstice is the platform that may actually make their brand valuable and my inlaws already put money on one rather than a BMW Z4 which is something that I would have thouht I'd never say. Let's see what you got Lutz? You got my attention...

 

Thanks for the review. I have just a few nits :

Every car has some faults (in other words no car is perfect). It doesn't take me long to find faults in any car. The issue is whether those faults you can live with, or if they bother you too much.

Yes, you mentioned it several time. But you didn't mentioned WHY you think it sucks, other than it doesn't have a manumatic mode. Could you please elaborate what sucks about it?

 

Z06, it actually wasn't bad, like I said, at moving you through the power band; but I expect a 5 or 6 speed, or in year or two, 7 speeds in my AT and shift control. It actually may be as strong as an Allison tranny but the suck part of my comment refers to the lack of one or two gears and control over which one you are driving in. No bad comment can be made about the performance of the 4at - at least from a 20 minute test drive.

I actually found the motor to be a bit not so "available" unless I kicked it in the ***. The tranny may or may not be to blame. I am not all that familiar with the LS series so I wasn't sure what to expect but I can say with out a doubt, when you put the pedal on the floor - you get pure, unadelterated and thrusting torque that you couldn't get for a 75k just 15 years ago. I like the direction of the brand right now and look forward to Lutz' impact on the entire lineup.

My analysis ends up like this for now in context of the entire GM brand lineup: After driving the Pontiac I can't pay the extra 10 or 12k for the CTS-V and still sleep at night. At 44k I may as well get the M-45 or consider the Pontiac. If I could drive a six speed GTO - that is get - permission from the wifee, I would probably do it - hows that!

 

You know the 6 speed stickers at $33,600 and the incentives bring that down to $32,600. If the LS-6 version isn't selling well for 2005 you can only go down from there. That thing still has me thinking but too bad they didn't use the CTS platform on the pontiac - or maybe I just need to be willing to buck up and pay the $44 for a CTS-V. It's a great time to be a buyer.

 

I tend to look at the bottom line performance - I don't care how it does it, as long as it does it, if you know what I mean. If a 4 speed automatic performs well, gets good fuel economy, and is a good match for a particular engine, then I don't care if its only a 4 speed.

I'll admit that the 4L60E tranny is a bit outdated compared to the new 6 speeds with manual shift modes, but it still works well with the LS V-8's because of the engine's wide powerband and fat torque curve.

A lot of people don't understand why its sometimes better to have a 6 speed automatic instead of a 4 speed. It's become more of a marketing game more than anything lately, as all people know is more is better. The reality is all a 6 speed automatic can do is offer slightly better fuel economy with a taller overdrive, and it helps keep engines that have narrow peak power bands in their power bands, so for those engines it can help acceleration a bit. But I think the improvement with the LS series V-8's would be minimal, because of its broad powerband.

We'll soon find out, because the 4L60E and 4L80E trannies are being replaced with new 6 speed 6L60E's and 6L80E's over the next few years in most GM cars and trucks, which also have manual shift modes. They are testing the new tranny now in the Corvette with steering wheel mounted paddle shift, and it should be available for the 2006 model year.

I wouldn't judge the CTS-V based on your GTO driving experience. While they share similar drivetrains, they are completely different animals. For one thing, the CTS-V can really handle and brake well. It's also got a much higher trim and feature level. It'll run circles around an M45 from a performance standpoint. The M45 is the better car if you're concerned more about luxury and features than performance, but the CTS-V is the better performance sedan. Depends what you're priorities are. Just remember though with the CTS-V, you must get the 6 speed manual tranny - it's not available with an automatic.

 

I appreciate what the 4 speed does as it does move through the power band well when you stomp on it but I didn't have the control I am used to for around town after driving after owning a stick for 10 years and then having my 5AT.

The 4 speed AT concept is old in contxt of what I know and am used to and marketing isn't the only reason people want something. Control and driveablity mean alot to me and the GTO has some tradeoffs. The CTS-V is probably more up my alley but I can't pay that for the interior, not to mention get a divorce for bringing home a 6MT.

Can you still get the Solstice at sticker if you pre-order. I'm thinking that will be worth more than sticker and I may buy one and re-sell it to someone who has to have it now - in November or so.

 

avs007, I truly agree with you! I love the GTO and really would like to buy one, but without a sunroof, navi, heated seats, and other nice features, I just have a hard time pulling the trigger on one. The engine and seats are VERY nice, the interior is great for a GM, the GTO just lacks options.

 

i just have to say that we should all be in praise of the current times. with gas prices rising, horsepower ratings are going up as well. all cars are marketed for someone, but not everyone. least we forget, the early 90s and the late 70s where gas prices were high and horsepower was going by the wayside. IMO, this is a great opportunity for us to see what our Gs can do in a control test where the test are as close to equal as they can get. same drivers driving all the cars for example. they debate here should be that we can only hope that the #1 car manufactuer should keep making 400+hp cars, it then in turn drives the imports to up the anty, ie: 2007 GTR coming to shore. I have no doubt that this will up the anty for the corvette as well. after all, it could be worse, we all could be in a G20 forum (160hp?) or a firebird forum( remember the 6.6 ltr with 160hp, think smokie and the bandit and you'll know what im talking about). all I am saying is that we should be praising the times since most manufactuers are racing to get a high horsepower sports car out. Think back to how dissapointed we all were when the VR4, RX7TT, 300ZX TT, and Supra T left our shores in '96( those of you that can remember that far back), i pray that that never happens again! we need the likes of the GTO to keep our cars going strong here( the market for them).
for those of you that dont know, i am a converted muscle car enthusiast, but since have grown up like the rest of you and moved from raw HP to refined HP. its like going from burgers to steak! i have owned a 67 camaro rs, 1990 z24, 85 el camino( still have, 325hp v8), 2000 accord coupe v6, and now my 6MT G. I dont just love my G, I can enjoy the fact that there are cars for everyone, and everyone of them aren't for me. We G owners are an elite group of car owners. we shouldnt drag ourselved down to the 16yr old mentallity that my engine is bigger. i just got to thinking, if pontiac is ever to go under( and i read that it may, may or june car and driver), that could start the snowball effect for all high hp rwd cars. and we all know that we are dying for the gtr to arrive, and like any military deployment, you dont celebrate on the plane ride home, you celebrate on the car ride home from the airport. 'nuff said, sorry, im off my soapbox! j

 

Anyone know about a new road runner coming from Diamler? There was a guy asking me about the GTO and he mentioned it in passing.

 

I do not know how Diamler would brand a Road Runner seeing that the Plymouth Brand is dead. The Charger is a Dodge and was the counter part of the Road Runner......maybe that is what the person meant. There is a Charger coming out but it will be a 4-door product.

 

Check it out, I also have























I have Comcast and repuested the Speed channel, no problem. Sometimes
you just have to ask!
It's to bad when they compare the three cars the don't include quality.
I looked long and hard at the GTO and the quality sucks! GM can't put a car
on the street that you don't have to take it in all the time for some damn thing
unlike Nissan that puts out a quality product. My garage is loaded with a G35
and a Vette, I would rather drive the G35.













[B]

 

If you didnt like the 4-speed automatic GTO, I hope you know that that Automatic GTO runs both faster 0-60 and 1/4 mile times than the 6-Speed Manual.

Thats not to say its a good, refined automatic transmission, but it is set up for very fast gear changes, fast enough to knock 0.2 seconds off the 0-60 time when compared to the manual.

Having only the 4 speed would kinda suck, and the lack of a manual shift mode would too. I love my 5 speed automatic in my G35. Downshifts and upshifts at perfect times. Hell, Im in love with my 7 speed auto in my E55 AMG. Now theres a transmission.

 

Thats all advertising BS. The 6-speeds are turning A LOT better times than the autos are. The M6s are trapping about 4-5 mph better also. GM is just wanting to sell some A4s.

 

2 Jtrain

lmao

 

Are you sure? Because, the only AMG car available with a 7 speed tranny is the new SLK55. Every other AMG model has a 5 speed tranny.