I only header dyno I've seen was on the 350z board, with either the Alphawerks or DC headers (can't remember). It was about a 10 HP gain. Again, it was just one run plotted against another, so we don't know if the runs are representative of what the other runs were like.

I have not seen a pre post Crawford header dyno, although in theory, it should have good gains. Wasn't there supposed to be one done in Florida a few months ago? Were the results ever posted?

 

There's an Alphawerks dyno on this board, search and you'll find it. I know it was like an AVERAGE of 17.6 hp and 16.4 torque. And I'm pretty sure it was pre and post install of just the headers, not the headers and a bunch of other mods...although Neffster tried to dispute that with me awhile back. I just don't get all this obvious Crawford bias with NO PROOF. Some things never change, I guess.

 

Found it. Neffy was wrong. Per the post: 3 pulls, install, 3 more pulls. https://g35driver.com/forums/showthr...lphawerks+dyno

So, the Alphawerks yield 17 hp alone, but the whole Crawford package (supposedly 40 hp), ECU, Exhaust, and about 25-30 lbs. less of unsprung weight via the wheels--equivalent to at least 100 lbs of sprung weight--yields only 20? Maybe 25, tops? Until someone proves me wrong, I'm convinced my Motordyne plenum spacer and Alphawerks headers are better than anyone's overpriced Crawford "go-fast goodies". Feels good to support the "little guy" as well. Though I clearly had no choice with the cats...at least I bought them used off someone, so Crawford isn't getting my money.

 

Paranormal, you still selling your Alpha's for $400? If so, someone should ****** them up ASAP!!! I just noticed it on your sig...

 

Very classy. I'll reserve my negative comments about your character for a later post.

BTW, I wasn't wrong. You just are misinformed. The ORIGINAL Alphawerks/Nexus thread that the manufacturer sponsored showed a 14-17rwhp gain WITH HIGH FLOW CATS AND HEADERS. If you go back and re-read the gazillion page post on my350z.com you'll see that (again) I'm right.

When you get all of your facts straight you can come back and apologize.

 

Alphawerks (made in China) on the left. DC Sport (made in the USA) on the right. I wish I could find the old link where Alphawerks (user name) posted all of their information on their headers, and after about 9 pages of posts, the guy from South Florida who was doing their 'independent' dyno let the cat out of the bag about the dyno being with BOTH headers and h/f cats which were both made by Alphawerks only to disprove Alphawerks claims (BTW Alpha's are modified for US cars by Nexus Industries)... Arrrghhh, my350z.com serch engine SUCKS!

Also anyone can do a baseline dyno and then 6 hours later re-dyno with no mods added and gain 10rwhp w/o trying. Move the fan, different oil temps, first run vs. third run, etc...

I've done back to back to back pulls and had them vary by 6rwhp. Splain' dat?

 

Ok, I'll 'splain dat.

Did you not even read the thread to which I referred you (and to which I was referring when you mistakenly tried to correct me)? This was an AVERAGE of 3 runs pre and 3 runs post, all with variables as close as possible...or do I need to quote it for you:

"STATS ON MY CAR AND DYNO
----------------------------------------------------------
Automatic G35 w/ 20" Maya Multi-Piece wheels lowered w/ Tein Springs
Dynojet Dyno
89 degrees average temp for all runs
Humidity 24%
All runs at same engine coolant temp.
No fans allowed in front of the car.
Three baselines...install...then 3 pulls with headers (actually 4 pulls but one came out with an error)
SAE Corrected

Basically I wanted to make sure I was getting what I was supposed to for the money I paid for the headers. I wanted to make sure that there was no fan to force air in front and no playing with the engine temperatures so we made sure the car was run at the same engine coolant temperatures and all this done in one day to make sure the environmental factors were all constants."

The AVERAGE was still 17.64 hp with JUST THE HEADERS ALONE. Care to direct me to your independent Crawford dyno of HEADERS ALONE that shows you are right? And if you really want to attack my character, remember that your bias against me (and your continuing fanboy bias FOR Crawford) started when you couldn't take a joke and supposedly "ignored" me. I guess you realized there might have been a grain of truth to what I had to say, 'cause you sure aren't "ignoring" me now.

 

post the link to the my350z.com thread... If I could find it I would have done it already.

 

I don't really care what that thread says. The one I discussed had an average of 3 pulls, all with constant variables, and NO OTHER MODS CHANGED. What more proof do you want? Now just show me a similar Crawford dyno with better numbers and I will be happy. But you're right, I was mistaken about one thing. I said that the Crawford package is claimed to yield 40 peak hp. I was wrong. It's 20 peak hp, and 40 at redline. I actually believe their claims now. The problem is, the Alphawerks headers alone yield only 3 less peak hp than Crawford's whole package of plenum, headers, and cats!

Neffster, I'm not trying to attack you. But it is kind of annoying to see you tout someone else's product so heavily when you have no objective proof of it having "better gains than any other headers". I'm sure Crawfords are fine, and if you really like yours, good for you. But when I see Alphawerks from Paranormal for $400 and Crawfords for $1100+, not to mention HUNDREDS more in installation costs with the Crawfords...and then follow that with the above objective information about the benefits of the Alphawerks, I can't see your point other than fanboyism. Do you have stock in their company?

 

Too bad. It shows that the headers and cats gained as much as my Crawford Plenum and RT Cats. 17.4rwhp and I have dynos (before and after) of this.

Unfortunately right now I can't show you a Crawford dyno to back up my statement. Doug had all of his flowbench, dyno data on a hard drive and it crashed about 1-2 years ago. I do know this... BJ from 350evo's race team dynoed Nismo, Crawford and Xerd and they wouldn't share their results, but they called Doug and ordered 3 more sets of Crawford Headers from Doug for their race team. I also know that there WERE dynos showing Doug's claims were accurate (several independent dynos) but since the my350z.com switch to V-bulletin I can't find anything older than the switch.

Good. Also, the Alphawerks dyno shows 2 PEAK numbers. These headers are made in China and they have been touted by Nexus Industries to be "nearly" equal length. If you believe these claims, why wouldn't you believe Crawfords claims with true equal length, hand made headers?

I'd be suspicious of any dyno that shows the stock G35 at 220rwhp. Something's wrong there. I'd lean toward bad baseline dyno.

It must just come easy for you, not having to try and all...

I'm waiting for Crawford to go IPO, really I am... If you want the best, buy Crawford. If you want the headers in the photo above (the pics on the left) buy Alphawerks.

FYI, I should have the following dynos in a few weeks courtesy of Doug.

1. Stock 2005 350z (dyno done).
2. Same stock 2005 350z plus Crawford plenum (dyno done and it gains 10rwhp).
3. Same stock 350z with the Crawford Package (dyno run not done yet).

I also found out that the Crawford headers (dynoed by Crawford) have all been like this... Dyno #1, stock car. Dyno #2 Plenum and cats were added (gained 20rwhp at redline). I performed this test myself, posted the results and got just over 17rwhp. Dyno #3 add on the headers for another 20rwhp at redline... I don't think that even Crawford ever dynoed a stock car with just their headers and after reading their website, they never claimed that the headers alone gain 20rwhp. They claimed this:

 

Normally I don't pay attention to the absolute number on a dyno, given that we have widely different conditions across the county, but a stock G35 CAN dyno 220. Especially when you factor in that the guy had 20" rims.

My car dynoed 219 with a Z-tube.

If that guy really did 3 pulls before and 3 pulls after under the same conditions (or at least trying to do the same conditions), then that's about as good as proof as you can get short of pulling the engine and doing engine dynos.

But very few people do that. Usually the runs are done under different engine temps, the alignment may be off between the wheels and the rollers, etc.

There's a good example of this with the AFE intake thread on my350z. We are told only one number for the baseline, and even then it's unclear if the WHP was 238 or 228. The car was taken off the dyno, is now being driven all around for 100 miles, the car gets an oil change. Maybe it'll get dynoed today. I mean, there's no way you can make any conclusions about that mod with this testing method.

 

Hmm, maybe his heavy-a** 20's, as suggested in the thread if you would only take the time to read it? And it was an AVERAGE of three runs for the so-called "bad" baseline.

Here's the problem. You believe that Crawford's headers are the "premier" headers, that "nothing else comes close to the performance delivered". I say that's corporate drivel. Because to prove me otherwise, you have to prove that Crawford headers give you gains alone that don't "come close" to the 17 hp delivered by the Alpha's alone. So you apparently believe that Crawford headers give you 25-30 hp or more alone. My link proves my point, you (or Crawford, take your pick as you're becoming one and the same!) have nothing but empty promises and crashed hard drives.

 

THANK-YOU!!!!

 

Holy crap man, hey whats with the misinformation? The original poster of that pic stated that the headers on the left are Nismo headers, and he wasn't even too sure on that. Whatever they are, they are poorly done, but its not confirmed that was an actual Alphawerks header.

Here's the original post:

http://www.my350z.com/forum/showthre...3&page=3&pp=20

It's post #57 and #60 where he talks about the headers.

 

He is secretly employed by Crawford, that's what's with it. Allow me to quote him: "When you get all of your facts straight you can come back and apologize."