Fixed my roaring (feathering) tire issue on my sedan, run the tires backwards
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,573
Likes: 72
From: Kansas City
Originally Posted by G35_TX
Still waiting to see this link where Michelin recommends running the tires backwards Dave. Please post it.
I am going to enjoy this thread. 
Dear Tom and Ray:
On a snowy morning this past winter, my work buddy crashed into a guardrail. When he took the car to the body shop, he was told that his tires were installed backward. Is this possible, and can improper tire installation reduce traction in snow? -- Frank
Ray: OK, Frank. We'll answer your question. But just between you and me, we know your buddy was just driving too fast in the snow, like a lot of people do. And now he's looking for someone to blame, right? The American way.
Tom: I guess suing the guardrail manufacturer didn't pan out, so he's moving on to the tire store.
Ray: Well, here's the story. It IS possible to put SOME tires on backward. Some higher-performance tires are "directional." That means they're optimized with a single rotational direction in mind. If the tire manufacturer knows in advance in which direction the tire will rotate, it can optimize each individual groove and tread block for that direction.
Tom: In other words, the manufacturer doesn't have to make any compromises just to make sure the tire is equally good in both directions. So, for instance, it can often improve the way water is channeled, or how the sipes (little cuts) in the tire are arranged.
Ray: So, does running a directional tire backward have any effect on its traction? Sure -- but not much. According to the tire engineers we spoke to, running a directional tire backward would not make it radically unsafe to drive on. In fact, you'd probably never even notice it. Come to think of it, your buddy never DID notice it! You just wouldn't be getting the optimal performance out of the tire.
Tom: It's possible that the water-channeling ability of a "backward" tire could be slightly diminished, and the same could be true for slush, I suppose. But the word we got is that "it's worse than removing the 'do not remove' tag from your mattress, but not a lot worse."
Ray: So tell your buddy to take his lumps for driving like a knucklehead, and slow down when it snows. And he can simply have his tires turned around so that they rotate in the right direction. No damage has been done to them by running them backward.
On a snowy morning this past winter, my work buddy crashed into a guardrail. When he took the car to the body shop, he was told that his tires were installed backward. Is this possible, and can improper tire installation reduce traction in snow? -- Frank
Ray: OK, Frank. We'll answer your question. But just between you and me, we know your buddy was just driving too fast in the snow, like a lot of people do. And now he's looking for someone to blame, right? The American way.
Tom: I guess suing the guardrail manufacturer didn't pan out, so he's moving on to the tire store.
Ray: Well, here's the story. It IS possible to put SOME tires on backward. Some higher-performance tires are "directional." That means they're optimized with a single rotational direction in mind. If the tire manufacturer knows in advance in which direction the tire will rotate, it can optimize each individual groove and tread block for that direction.
Tom: In other words, the manufacturer doesn't have to make any compromises just to make sure the tire is equally good in both directions. So, for instance, it can often improve the way water is channeled, or how the sipes (little cuts) in the tire are arranged.
Ray: So, does running a directional tire backward have any effect on its traction? Sure -- but not much. According to the tire engineers we spoke to, running a directional tire backward would not make it radically unsafe to drive on. In fact, you'd probably never even notice it. Come to think of it, your buddy never DID notice it! You just wouldn't be getting the optimal performance out of the tire.
Tom: It's possible that the water-channeling ability of a "backward" tire could be slightly diminished, and the same could be true for slush, I suppose. But the word we got is that "it's worse than removing the 'do not remove' tag from your mattress, but not a lot worse."
Ray: So tell your buddy to take his lumps for driving like a knucklehead, and slow down when it snows. And he can simply have his tires turned around so that they rotate in the right direction. No damage has been done to them by running them backward.
And the conversations he had with tire engineers are heresay.
I find no entertainment value at all in these kinds of threads, it's about as interesting at that squirrel you accidentally hit with your car and you catch a glimpse of it in your rear view mirror flopping about. Instead of behaving this way to get attention please go stand in your bathroom mirror and engage yourself in your own argument so you don't waste our time or the boards bandwidth. It’s sad that as a group that can afford these type’s of vehicle’s that we can behave this way.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,573
Likes: 72
From: Kansas City
Originally Posted by izmir41500
From reading the link you posted, I conclude that it is not completely safe to run your tires backward. Diminished performance is not for me. I guess if you drive like a granny it would be ok to fix the uneven tread wear.
And the conversations he had with tire engineers are heresay.
And the conversations he had with tire engineers are heresay.
As for dicussions with the tire experts, it could be heresay, but they stand a lot more to loose than myself.
When it's pouring rain and/or there is obvious standing water on the surfaces of the road, I'm driving at speeds below 55mph, usually 40 to 50mph. I pay very close attention to the steering feel of the car. If it's torrential, I may be going as slow as 5mph. I'm not that nimrod in the fast lane doing 60+mph in heavy rain. I'm not in that big of a hurry.
Last edited by DaveB; Aug 7, 2007 at 12:15 PM.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,573
Likes: 72
From: Kansas City
Originally Posted by Gsedan35
I find no entertainment value at all in these kinds of threads, it's about as interesting at that squirrel you accidentally hit with your car and you catch a glimpse of it in your rear view mirror flopping about. Instead of behaving this way to get attention please go stand in your bathroom mirror and engage yourself in your own argument so you don't waste our time or the boards bandwidth. It’s sad that as a group that can afford these type’s of vehicle’s that we can behave this way.
Originally Posted by Gsedan35
I find no entertainment value at all in these kinds of threads, it's about as interesting at that squirrel you accidentally hit with your car and you catch a glimpse of it in your rear view mirror flopping about. Instead of behaving this way to get attention please go stand in your bathroom mirror and engage yourself in your own argument so you don't waste our time or the boards bandwidth. It’s sad that as a group that can afford these type’s of vehicle’s that we can behave this way.
Originally Posted by DaveB
You never asked for any links (even though I did post one). I'm done doing your research plus I've already posted one link. You're an IT guy, therefore you should be able to manipulate the interweb far better than myself. As you always say to me and others, "search..it's out there".
So, you can provide us the proof where Michelin actually showed this? And you expect US to believe you? I guess you were lieing then right?
Waste of time as usual.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,573
Likes: 72
From: Kansas City
Originally Posted by G35_TX
Umm actually two of us asked you for it. lol!
So, you can provide us the proof where Michelin actually showed this? And you expect US to believe you? I guess you were lieing then right?
Waste of time as usual.
So, you can provide us the proof where Michelin actually showed this? And you expect US to believe you? I guess you were lieing then right?
Waste of time as usual.
We didn't RUIN your thread, all we did and we asked nicely to please show us where Michelin says this or Yoko (whatever the other brand name was you mentioned). But you refuse to give us this information. Another bad mark on your rep here.
dude - its not that your wet weather tracking "might" be compromised, it WILL be compromised and this is from personal experience it is DEF not cool to run these tires backwards.
once i had directional tires reversed on the left side of my car...i went through a puddle and my wheel pulled HARD to the left as if the brakes went on on the left wheels only
all the water is now being channeled into the center of your tires...where will the water go? oh yea, underneath it = hydroplane. not cool. if its raining, dont drive.
i already heard a fair share of stories from integras/honda hitting trees with reversed tires
once i had directional tires reversed on the left side of my car...i went through a puddle and my wheel pulled HARD to the left as if the brakes went on on the left wheels only
all the water is now being channeled into the center of your tires...where will the water go? oh yea, underneath it = hydroplane. not cool. if its raining, dont drive.
i already heard a fair share of stories from integras/honda hitting trees with reversed tires
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,573
Likes: 72
From: Kansas City
Originally Posted by Neal376
dude - its not that your wet weather tracking "might" be compromised, it WILL be compromised and this is from personal experience it is DEF not cool to run these tires backwards.
once i had directional tires reversed on the left side of my car...i went through a puddle and my wheel pulled HARD to the left as if the brakes went on on the left wheels only
all the water is now being channeled into the center of your tires...where will the water go? oh yea, underneath it = hydroplane. not cool. if its raining, dont drive.
i already heard a fair share of stories from integras/honda hitting trees with reversed tires
once i had directional tires reversed on the left side of my car...i went through a puddle and my wheel pulled HARD to the left as if the brakes went on on the left wheels only
all the water is now being channeled into the center of your tires...where will the water go? oh yea, underneath it = hydroplane. not cool. if its raining, dont drive.
i already heard a fair share of stories from integras/honda hitting trees with reversed tires
When I've had cars hydroplane the steering will do exactly what you described. It will pull in a direction especially when you first hit a deep puddle. The reason it does this is because the tire has no traction and the weight of the car is pushing it. It's basically like a ski with no real directional stability.
As for the Honda guys, they're idiots. They were driving too fast for the conditions. It wouldn't have mattered what kind of tire they had. Wet/snow weather traction is based primarily on four things:
1) Tread depth
2) Speed
3) Weight
4) Tire width
I'll keep you guys posted on whether or not a crash into a tree when I drive it in the rain. Unforunately, there's no rain in site for at least a week. Only sunny and 95-100 degrees.
Originally Posted by DaveB
It's not like the directional design channels out 100% of the water it's running through. No tire can do that. Even with the reversed tread, the water will get channeled out, but just not as effectively. Reversing the tread doesn't channel the water under the tire, instead it will push it a bit more forward which will cause slightly more water building in front of the tire which may make it more suceptable to hydroplaning.
When I've had cars hydroplane the steering will do exactly what you described. It will pull in a direction especially when you first hit a deep puddle. The reason it does this is because the tire has no traction and the weight of the car is pushing it. It's basically like a ski with no real directional stability.
As for the Honda guys, they're idiots. They were driving too fast for the conditions. It wouldn't have mattered what kind of tire they had. Wet/snow weather traction is based primarily on four things:
1) Tread depth
2) Speed
3) Weight
4) Tire width
I'll keep you guys posted on whether or not a crash into a tree when I drive it in the rain. Unforunately, there's no rain in site for at least a week. Only sunny and 95-100 degrees.
When I've had cars hydroplane the steering will do exactly what you described. It will pull in a direction especially when you first hit a deep puddle. The reason it does this is because the tire has no traction and the weight of the car is pushing it. It's basically like a ski with no real directional stability.
As for the Honda guys, they're idiots. They were driving too fast for the conditions. It wouldn't have mattered what kind of tire they had. Wet/snow weather traction is based primarily on four things:
1) Tread depth
2) Speed
3) Weight
4) Tire width
I'll keep you guys posted on whether or not a crash into a tree when I drive it in the rain. Unforunately, there's no rain in site for at least a week. Only sunny and 95-100 degrees.
Just buy some tires.
Joined: Aug 2003
Posts: 6,573
Likes: 72
From: Kansas City
Originally Posted by jclit
Risking your life and others for a measly $600, not cool.
Last edited by DaveB; Aug 7, 2007 at 08:39 PM.