Low fuel light-How far have you gone when its on?
#16
Re: Low fuel light-How far have you gone when its on?
Why would you think your Honda experience has anything to do with a newly radically redesigned Nissan fuel pump system.
Study your G35 factory service manual.
Just pointing out historical data, I lose money if your fuel pump lasts. Engineers lose their jobs or at least don't get raises if their designs last too long.
Current thinking in Auto manufacturing [especially Nissan] is major profit center is replacement parts..........make the car to sell the parts like a color ink jet printer cartridge.
Study your G35 factory service manual.
Just pointing out historical data, I lose money if your fuel pump lasts. Engineers lose their jobs or at least don't get raises if their designs last too long.
Current thinking in Auto manufacturing [especially Nissan] is major profit center is replacement parts..........make the car to sell the parts like a color ink jet printer cartridge.
#18
Re: Low fuel light-How far have you gone when its on?
"Although these systems are called "returnless," the truth of the matter is that the fuel pressure regulator has simply been relocated, either close to, or inside the fuel tank. Fuel pressure is typically higher than on a return type system, and is not controlled by engine vacuum. Instead, the PCM has greater authority to widen the pulse width under heavy load to compensate for the rise in manifold pressure. Also, at least one manufacturer (Ford) has resorted to a rather complicated PCM-controlled fuel pump driver module that increases duty cycle to the pump under heavy load. It uses a fuel pressure sensor that looks like a fuel pressure regulator mounted on the fuel rail to assist the PCM in deciding when to crank up voltage to the pump. Chrysler started the returnless trend on its V6 and V8 truck applications around 1993 and extended it to more of their applications as the years progressed.
For reasons unfathomable to me, at the same time it was decided that fuel filter service was pretty much unnecessary and the filters were mounted in such wonderful locations as the top of the gas tank (on Neons, the pressure regulator is part of the filter). The excuse for this step is that since the returnless system only pumps through the filter the fuel that is used by the engine, and not ten times that amount like the continuous return systems, the service life of the filter is greatly lengthened.
Personally, I think that's nonsense. Nothing has changed to reduce the amount of dirt that is introduced into the fuel system. I have no reason to believe that gas is any cleaner now than it ever was. Though the fuel is not being filtered multiple times, the same amount of fuel and the same amount of dirt has to be filtered. In researching the iATN technical discussion forum archives for this article, I believe I have confirmed my suspicion. Though I haven't yet had these problems myself, I saw a good number of references to Chrysler vehicles developing misfires on cylinders #1 and #2 under load. The problem has been traced to restricted fuel filters that cause fuel pump cavitation under heavy fuel demands. Because there is no return line at the fuel rail, air that is introduced into the system has only one place to exit: through the injectors. Because cylinders #1 and #2 are the farthest away from the point of fuel entry, they get most of the offending air. As we all know, engines run poorly on air! Techs fr om dusty parts of the country also report that due to the lack of fuel circulation, fine dust that gets past the fuel filter loads up at the ends of the fuel rails and causes fuel starvation, particularly on the Chrysler V10 engine. On-car cleaning equipment would flush the fuel rail on continuous-return systems. It's also possible to do it on returnless systems by using the fuel inlet and the test port (Schrader valve) as an outlet, but it takes a little more fiddling around. Remember too, that "dead-heading" the fuel line on returnless systems doesn't have the same effect it did in return systems. Because the fuel pressure regulator is back near or in the tank, you can safely stop up the fuel flow without worrying about damaging the pump.
Troubles I assumed would be associated with returnless systems have not materialized. Hard hot restarts have not been a problem, perhaps due to higher fuel pump pressures and wider cranking pulse widths. Injectors, other than the GM poppets, which are a continuous return system anyway, have not been plugging at a rate greater than before, and though on-car cleaning is somewhat more difficult, it's still possible.
As the EPA cranks down the specs for allowable evaporative emissions, we can expect more and more returnless systems. I've been told that Honda adopted its first returnless system for 2001, and concurrently discontinued its recommendation for fuel filter replacement! Use your own judgment as far as what you feel is fair to recommend to your customers, but for my money, I'm betting that fuel filter change intervals will be back with us before long."
COPYRIGHT 2001 Adams Business Media
For reasons unfathomable to me, at the same time it was decided that fuel filter service was pretty much unnecessary and the filters were mounted in such wonderful locations as the top of the gas tank (on Neons, the pressure regulator is part of the filter). The excuse for this step is that since the returnless system only pumps through the filter the fuel that is used by the engine, and not ten times that amount like the continuous return systems, the service life of the filter is greatly lengthened.
Personally, I think that's nonsense. Nothing has changed to reduce the amount of dirt that is introduced into the fuel system. I have no reason to believe that gas is any cleaner now than it ever was. Though the fuel is not being filtered multiple times, the same amount of fuel and the same amount of dirt has to be filtered. In researching the iATN technical discussion forum archives for this article, I believe I have confirmed my suspicion. Though I haven't yet had these problems myself, I saw a good number of references to Chrysler vehicles developing misfires on cylinders #1 and #2 under load. The problem has been traced to restricted fuel filters that cause fuel pump cavitation under heavy fuel demands. Because there is no return line at the fuel rail, air that is introduced into the system has only one place to exit: through the injectors. Because cylinders #1 and #2 are the farthest away from the point of fuel entry, they get most of the offending air. As we all know, engines run poorly on air! Techs fr om dusty parts of the country also report that due to the lack of fuel circulation, fine dust that gets past the fuel filter loads up at the ends of the fuel rails and causes fuel starvation, particularly on the Chrysler V10 engine. On-car cleaning equipment would flush the fuel rail on continuous-return systems. It's also possible to do it on returnless systems by using the fuel inlet and the test port (Schrader valve) as an outlet, but it takes a little more fiddling around. Remember too, that "dead-heading" the fuel line on returnless systems doesn't have the same effect it did in return systems. Because the fuel pressure regulator is back near or in the tank, you can safely stop up the fuel flow without worrying about damaging the pump.
Troubles I assumed would be associated with returnless systems have not materialized. Hard hot restarts have not been a problem, perhaps due to higher fuel pump pressures and wider cranking pulse widths. Injectors, other than the GM poppets, which are a continuous return system anyway, have not been plugging at a rate greater than before, and though on-car cleaning is somewhat more difficult, it's still possible.
As the EPA cranks down the specs for allowable evaporative emissions, we can expect more and more returnless systems. I've been told that Honda adopted its first returnless system for 2001, and concurrently discontinued its recommendation for fuel filter replacement! Use your own judgment as far as what you feel is fair to recommend to your customers, but for my money, I'm betting that fuel filter change intervals will be back with us before long."
COPYRIGHT 2001 Adams Business Media
#19
Re: Low fuel light-How far have you gone when its on?
My factory service manual? Uh, I own the car, I don't repair them.
Regarding your comments about current business practices, I suppose you're referring to "planned obsolescence". That's a common misconception. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Engineers who want to keep their jobs don't engineer parts that fail quickly because automobile manufacturers want desperately to be known as a reliable brand where part failure is not part of the ownership experience. This reputation is what builds brand loyalty and ensures increased sales of automobiles in the future.
You're right that Nissan wants replacement parts to be a profit center. They want all their operations to be profitable. It sure beats losing money!
Gasoline is the ink in your ink jet printer analogy.
04 G35X
Regarding your comments about current business practices, I suppose you're referring to "planned obsolescence". That's a common misconception. In fact, quite the opposite is true. Engineers who want to keep their jobs don't engineer parts that fail quickly because automobile manufacturers want desperately to be known as a reliable brand where part failure is not part of the ownership experience. This reputation is what builds brand loyalty and ensures increased sales of automobiles in the future.
You're right that Nissan wants replacement parts to be a profit center. They want all their operations to be profitable. It sure beats losing money!
Gasoline is the ink in your ink jet printer analogy.
04 G35X
#21
#22
#23
Re: Low fuel light-How far have you gone when its on?
BOY did I start something! I filled up last night $46.00, 19.2 gallons of gas at $2.39 a gallon. Thats the most I have put in my tank and the most money I have spent on gas for my G. According to my tripmeter I traveled approximately 68 miles. But I am not sure if I reset it exactly when the light came on.
I will take the advice posted and keep it in mind. Many thanks the informative responses.
DKnibb
I will take the advice posted and keep it in mind. Many thanks the informative responses.
DKnibb
#24
Re: Low fuel light-How far have you gone when its on?
When some one explains it better than I can, I give credit.
Read Nissan financial statements and examine the profit centers. Dealers make little on new car sales, the profit and volume is triple on used sales but parts is also double REVENUE [dealer cost vs retail markup]. Parts usually represent 55 - 60% of the average repair bill.
You are confusing IN warranty reliability with after warranty reliability and the grace period to 100,000 miles [legal life of a vehicle]. Does a new car buyer consider resale [long term reliability after 6 years] when buying, somewhat but less than one would imagine.
93% of our 5,300 customers [computer data base at 2 independent specialty shops] [Lexus and Infiniti] are older after warranty second [third or 4th] owners.
My comments apply to them or those that want to keep their cars after 70k..........prior to G35 [no data yet] more owners traded just at warranty expiration.
With the mileage some drive annually, the warranty may be over in 3-4 years.
Read Nissan financial statements and examine the profit centers. Dealers make little on new car sales, the profit and volume is triple on used sales but parts is also double REVENUE [dealer cost vs retail markup]. Parts usually represent 55 - 60% of the average repair bill.
You are confusing IN warranty reliability with after warranty reliability and the grace period to 100,000 miles [legal life of a vehicle]. Does a new car buyer consider resale [long term reliability after 6 years] when buying, somewhat but less than one would imagine.
93% of our 5,300 customers [computer data base at 2 independent specialty shops] [Lexus and Infiniti] are older after warranty second [third or 4th] owners.
My comments apply to them or those that want to keep their cars after 70k..........prior to G35 [no data yet] more owners traded just at warranty expiration.
With the mileage some drive annually, the warranty may be over in 3-4 years.
#25
hey..such a high reserve ehh
Originally Posted by DKnibb
Maybe I'm adventurous or but I always like to see how far I can go when the low fuel light comes on then I reset my tripmeter to track my mileage. I have never run out of fuel in my G. It happened once in my Sentra, 40 feet from the pump as I was entering the Gasstation.
Well I really want to know how much fuel is left in the tank when the light comes on. Does anyone know. The farthest I have driven is 42.7 miles and that was city and highway.
Thanks
DKnibb -still loving my G!
Well I really want to know how much fuel is left in the tank when the light comes on. Does anyone know. The farthest I have driven is 42.7 miles and that was city and highway.
Thanks
DKnibb -still loving my G!
Yeah, I noticed that several times now after the low fuel light comes on I have easily been able to drive at least another 25kms before getting to the gas station to fill up. What kind of a large reserve have they set on this car? Its insane, Iguess its a good thing of course, however they might as well have the light to come on after using up 5 kms in to a full tank. lol.
#26
hey..such a large reserve ehh
Originally Posted by DKnibb
Maybe I'm adventurous or but I always like to see how far I can go when the low fuel light comes on then I reset my tripmeter to track my mileage. I have never run out of fuel in my G. It happened once in my Sentra, 40 feet from the pump as I was entering the Gasstation.
Well I really want to know how much fuel is left in the tank when the light comes on. Does anyone know. The farthest I have driven is 42.7 miles and that was city and highway.
Thanks
DKnibb -still loving my G!
Well I really want to know how much fuel is left in the tank when the light comes on. Does anyone know. The farthest I have driven is 42.7 miles and that was city and highway.
Thanks
DKnibb -still loving my G!
Yeah, I noticed that several times now after the low fuel light comes on I have easily been able to drive at least another 25kms before getting to the gas station to fill up. What kind of a large reserve have they set on this car? Its insane, Iguess its a good thing of course, however they might as well have the light to come on after using up 5 kms in to a full tank. lol.
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