why do I find myself wanting a A4?
#47
03-30-2011, 12:26 AM
The GTI as a car isn't all that bad reliability wise. No power seats in most, ****poor stereo, simple AC, canbus that you don't really interact with. The 2.0T has 3 major things that can go wrong if I remember correctly, The diverter valve, which is cheap, some other valve that is roughly the same price, and the Turbo and anything that goes with it.
The car itself is reliable, the engine may not be tops, but it's better than most. The 2.3l turbo is the Mazdaspeed3 (and 6) are like ticking time bombs, BMW's N54 (and N55 I think) have fuel pumps that are more temperamental than cats on LSD.
Fact is, you take a risk owning a turbo car. Usually that risk is almost zero is properly taken care of, but things like seals and rubber valves don't last forever. Eventually that turbo is gonna need a rebuild, just like a Fat cam in and LSx motor is gonna need some help a few hundred thousand miles down the road.
If you're planning on buying a 2.0T A4 and keeping it for 4-6 years...don't expect too many issues. Most german manufacturers go through at least one "ZOMG TEH ELECTRONICS ARE ON FIRE!!!" phase. Mercedes did until just a few years ago. BMW is having fuel pumps explode. Volkwagen built some truly truly ****ty cars from the mid 90's until the MKV came out, and Porsche let their designers spend too much time designing hard drives and shoes and they ended up selling the Cheyenne.
Buy the audi. It won't disappoint you.
Edit: Ohh, and don't forget. Renault has a pretty big stake in Nissan. If I remember correctly the VQ is a french engine, or was designed by them or something. VQ = Reliable French cars = Held together with hopes and dreams.
The car itself is reliable, the engine may not be tops, but it's better than most. The 2.3l turbo is the Mazdaspeed3 (and 6) are like ticking time bombs, BMW's N54 (and N55 I think) have fuel pumps that are more temperamental than cats on LSD.
Fact is, you take a risk owning a turbo car. Usually that risk is almost zero is properly taken care of, but things like seals and rubber valves don't last forever. Eventually that turbo is gonna need a rebuild, just like a Fat cam in and LSx motor is gonna need some help a few hundred thousand miles down the road.
If you're planning on buying a 2.0T A4 and keeping it for 4-6 years...don't expect too many issues. Most german manufacturers go through at least one "ZOMG TEH ELECTRONICS ARE ON FIRE!!!" phase. Mercedes did until just a few years ago. BMW is having fuel pumps explode. Volkwagen built some truly truly ****ty cars from the mid 90's until the MKV came out, and Porsche let their designers spend too much time designing hard drives and shoes and they ended up selling the Cheyenne.
Buy the audi. It won't disappoint you.
Edit: Ohh, and don't forget. Renault has a pretty big stake in Nissan. If I remember correctly the VQ is a french engine, or was designed by them or something. VQ = Reliable French cars = Held together with hopes and dreams.
#48
03-30-2011, 10:56 AM
The GTI as a car isn't all that bad reliability wise. No power seats in most, ****poor stereo, simple AC, canbus that you don't really interact with. The 2.0T has 3 major things that can go wrong if I remember correctly, The diverter valve, which is cheap, some other valve that is roughly the same price, and the Turbo and anything that goes with it.
The car itself is reliable, the engine may not be tops, but it's better than most. The 2.3l turbo is the Mazdaspeed3 (and 6) are like ticking time bombs, BMW's N54 (and N55 I think) have fuel pumps that are more temperamental than cats on LSD.
Fact is, you take a risk owning a turbo car. Usually that risk is almost zero is properly taken care of, but things like seals and rubber valves don't last forever. Eventually that turbo is gonna need a rebuild, just like a Fat cam in and LSx motor is gonna need some help a few hundred thousand miles down the road.
If you're planning on buying a 2.0T A4 and keeping it for 4-6 years...don't expect too many issues. Most german manufacturers go through at least one "ZOMG TEH ELECTRONICS ARE ON FIRE!!!" phase. Mercedes did until just a few years ago. BMW is having fuel pumps explode. Volkwagen built some truly truly ****ty cars from the mid 90's until the MKV came out, and Porsche let their designers spend too much time designing hard drives and shoes and they ended up selling the Cheyenne.
Buy the audi. It won't disappoint you.
Edit: Ohh, and don't forget. Renault has a pretty big stake in Nissan. If I remember correctly the VQ is a french engine, or was designed by them or something. VQ = Reliable French cars = Held together with hopes and dreams.
The car itself is reliable, the engine may not be tops, but it's better than most. The 2.3l turbo is the Mazdaspeed3 (and 6) are like ticking time bombs, BMW's N54 (and N55 I think) have fuel pumps that are more temperamental than cats on LSD.
Fact is, you take a risk owning a turbo car. Usually that risk is almost zero is properly taken care of, but things like seals and rubber valves don't last forever. Eventually that turbo is gonna need a rebuild, just like a Fat cam in and LSx motor is gonna need some help a few hundred thousand miles down the road.
If you're planning on buying a 2.0T A4 and keeping it for 4-6 years...don't expect too many issues. Most german manufacturers go through at least one "ZOMG TEH ELECTRONICS ARE ON FIRE!!!" phase. Mercedes did until just a few years ago. BMW is having fuel pumps explode. Volkwagen built some truly truly ****ty cars from the mid 90's until the MKV came out, and Porsche let their designers spend too much time designing hard drives and shoes and they ended up selling the Cheyenne.
Buy the audi. It won't disappoint you.
Edit: Ohh, and don't forget. Renault has a pretty big stake in Nissan. If I remember correctly the VQ is a french engine, or was designed by them or something. VQ = Reliable French cars = Held together with hopes and dreams.
Your knock on turbos isn't fair. I owned a 2002 Saab 9-5 Aero (HOT, in Europe), and put 180,000+ miles on it before it was totaled in an accident. Owned it from start to finish. You know how many problems the engine had? Zero. The turbo? Zero.
The interesting thing about the HOT (high output turbo) in the 9-5 was that it was produced by Mitsubishi. That 2.3 liter HOT turbo was the single best engine I've ever driven - great acceleration, and gas mileage in the thirties easy when on the highway. It was faster than my G35, and destroyed it on MPGs.
The gas mileage wasn't quite as good as my Passat. But then, my Saab was pretty much trouble free (as has been my G35). Turbo engines aren't the culprit. The problem is the German's are always pushing the newest technologies, and they don't often take the time to perfect anything tech wise before moving on to the next latest, greatest thing. It produces some very fun to drive cars, but with their engineering mentality, those cars won't ever be on par with Japanese built cars in terms of reliability
Now, in my opinion, nobody does ergonomics or "fun to drive" as well as the Europeans. I give total credit to them there. But reliability is a joke, if you're rating it on a global scale - which you have to do given all the options out there for car buyers today.
#49
03-31-2011, 01:19 AM
Like I said, things like seals and gaskets are wear parts. It all depends on how fast they wear out. If you made it 180k in a turbo Saab more power to you. I don't doubt it. It's a Saab.
My point is, turbos are prone to failure just like big trees are prone to fall during hurricanes. If you have an issue with the turbo it doesn't make the car unreliable, it makes the turbo unreliable, but that doesn't inherently mean that a turbo is unreliable.
If Ford thinks enough of their turbos to stick them in the new Taurus SHO and F-150 (especially after the insane stress they put their F-150 under to prove the turbos) then the idea that a properly engineered factory turbo car will be just as reliable as an NA car provided it's taken car of, and you don't, say, crank the boost.
Back to the OP and the B8: Reliable: More than most. Fun: Raw power it lacks. Rails it rides. Comfort: It's slightly smaller than the G sedan, but not too much so, it's quiet, and the B&O stereo sounds amazing for what you pay for it. Looks: Dead sexy, especially with the Xenon lights and the LEDs. Fuel Economy: Mid 30's highway, higher if you're trying.
My point is, turbos are prone to failure just like big trees are prone to fall during hurricanes. If you have an issue with the turbo it doesn't make the car unreliable, it makes the turbo unreliable, but that doesn't inherently mean that a turbo is unreliable.
If Ford thinks enough of their turbos to stick them in the new Taurus SHO and F-150 (especially after the insane stress they put their F-150 under to prove the turbos) then the idea that a properly engineered factory turbo car will be just as reliable as an NA car provided it's taken car of, and you don't, say, crank the boost.
Back to the OP and the B8: Reliable: More than most. Fun: Raw power it lacks. Rails it rides. Comfort: It's slightly smaller than the G sedan, but not too much so, it's quiet, and the B&O stereo sounds amazing for what you pay for it. Looks: Dead sexy, especially with the Xenon lights and the LEDs. Fuel Economy: Mid 30's highway, higher if you're trying.
#50
03-31-2011, 02:14 PM
Gotta disagree. I owned a 2004 VW Passat (4 cyl, turbo) that I treated like cherry - how I treat all my cars - and did everything as it was scheduled. All premium fluids, all full synthetic, everything. It was a great car to drive for the first 27,000 miles. Between 27,000 and 40,000, I had TWENTY SEVEN things go wrong with it. Despite the meticulous maintenance done at the dealer.
Lost three ignition coils, the trip computer, the radio, the locking mechanism (also three times), water flooded the cabin all the time, and that's just starting out. My girlfriend, who had a 2003 Passat with the V6, had even more things go wrong with her car. My sister got a 2006 with the 4 cylinder, and after 24,000 miles the thing cycled through it's oil every week. My uncle got a fully loaded 2005 Passat (V6, all that), and it was just as bad. He had to replace his catalytic converter 10,000 miles in.
None of them were as meticulous with maintenance as I was. And none of them had as many problems. But all our cars were disasters to own. Which is a shame, because when they were actually running, they were a pleasure to drive. But the reliability is so far beyond unacceptable it should be criminal for VW not to warn prospective customers about what they're getting into.
The funny thing, though, is you're right about these same cars being totally reliable in Europe. I've been told the VW Golf is bullet proof over there. I don't know how to explain it. But there is definitely a disconnect between the VWs made for the Europe and the garbage that makes it way over here. But that disconnect isn't that Europeans treat their cars better than Americans - that much I can tell you.
Lost three ignition coils, the trip computer, the radio, the locking mechanism (also three times), water flooded the cabin all the time, and that's just starting out. My girlfriend, who had a 2003 Passat with the V6, had even more things go wrong with her car. My sister got a 2006 with the 4 cylinder, and after 24,000 miles the thing cycled through it's oil every week. My uncle got a fully loaded 2005 Passat (V6, all that), and it was just as bad. He had to replace his catalytic converter 10,000 miles in.
None of them were as meticulous with maintenance as I was. And none of them had as many problems. But all our cars were disasters to own. Which is a shame, because when they were actually running, they were a pleasure to drive. But the reliability is so far beyond unacceptable it should be criminal for VW not to warn prospective customers about what they're getting into.
The funny thing, though, is you're right about these same cars being totally reliable in Europe. I've been told the VW Golf is bullet proof over there. I don't know how to explain it. But there is definitely a disconnect between the VWs made for the Europe and the garbage that makes it way over here. But that disconnect isn't that Europeans treat their cars better than Americans - that much I can tell you.
water flooded cabin... did they say it was due to a bad/clog water drain from your sunroof? most likely yes, i found many clogged up with random tree crap/branches and etc. You can blame VW but really its just environment. Obviously water gets into car, your TCM is located under the pass seat. When flooded your trans will shift crazy and go into limp mode. The cat being bad again happens on all cars. Now the locking mech, yea VW ****ed that up. WIndow regulators another **** poor idea by VW. Your trip computer i guess thats crazy at such low miles. Lexus clusters always go out on older models at about 125k.
Its not that i defend VW or anything for that matter. But you have to rule out common car problems regardless of mines. No 2 cars are driven the same or go thru the same issues. Our G's have issues with compression rods, radios and AC control not working, oil in valve covers. I deem that all common. I would say if the cat rattles, MAF goes, coilpack goes, all of them would be common problems.
I dont know how the GOLF in euro is the way they are but they are the civics of the US. They are cheap the fix but more importantly rarely go wrong. Maybe the just replace things known to be wrong. Like for our G, you go in for oil change at 50k and they replace your compression rods. This way you never really deal with an issue but you pay more upfront for less incoinvence down the road. So when you go to rate your car, you would say no issues. I never been in euro countries to know much, but i know most my euro guys who i know in america, work on their own cars.
#51
03-31-2011, 05:57 PM
Though I dont have a lot of great things to say about my G35x outside of when it is working it works great. I can share a story with you. When I was shopping for my g35x I was also shopping for an A4. When I went to test drive an A4, it wouldnt start. The sales rep got a service tech to jump it. It wouldnt jump. It turns out the engine heating coils were shot (it was in the single digits outside). I was turned off, but still wanted to give it a shot. I went to test drive a second A4. Guess what! Same thing. That pretty much was a no thanks for me. Could have just been a freak accident, who knows!
#52
03-31-2011, 07:06 PM
I can somewhat speak on your issues. As i was with VW around those years. All radios are prone to internal shorts. VW doesn't make radios, blame clardeon. Its the same for our G35's same maker and same issue. Some never short and so short in 15k miles. ing coils are common failures. There was recall on these, they replace all 4 per recall. Bad design or a design flaw, all turbo VW had this issue.
water flooded cabin... did they say it was due to a bad/clog water drain from your sunroof? most likely yes, i found many clogged up with random tree crap/branches and etc. You can blame VW but really its just environment. Obviously water gets into car, your TCM is located under the pass seat. When flooded your trans will shift crazy and go into limp mode. The cat being bad again happens on all cars. Now the locking mech, yea VW ****ed that up. WIndow regulators another **** poor idea by VW. Your trip computer i guess thats crazy at such low miles. Lexus clusters always go out on older models at about 125k.
Its not that i defend VW or anything for that matter. But you have to rule out common car problems regardless of mines. No 2 cars are driven the same or go thru the same issues. Our G's have issues with compression rods, radios and AC control not working, oil in valve covers. I deem that all common. I would say if the cat rattles, MAF goes, coilpack goes, all of them would be common problems.
I dont know how the GOLF in euro is the way they are but they are the civics of the US. They are cheap the fix but more importantly rarely go wrong. Maybe the just replace things known to be wrong. Like for our G, you go in for oil change at 50k and they replace your compression rods. This way you never really deal with an issue but you pay more upfront for less incoinvence down the road. So when you go to rate your car, you would say no issues. I never been in euro countries to know much, but i know most my euro guys who i know in america, work on their own cars.
water flooded cabin... did they say it was due to a bad/clog water drain from your sunroof? most likely yes, i found many clogged up with random tree crap/branches and etc. You can blame VW but really its just environment. Obviously water gets into car, your TCM is located under the pass seat. When flooded your trans will shift crazy and go into limp mode. The cat being bad again happens on all cars. Now the locking mech, yea VW ****ed that up. WIndow regulators another **** poor idea by VW. Your trip computer i guess thats crazy at such low miles. Lexus clusters always go out on older models at about 125k.
Its not that i defend VW or anything for that matter. But you have to rule out common car problems regardless of mines. No 2 cars are driven the same or go thru the same issues. Our G's have issues with compression rods, radios and AC control not working, oil in valve covers. I deem that all common. I would say if the cat rattles, MAF goes, coilpack goes, all of them would be common problems.
I dont know how the GOLF in euro is the way they are but they are the civics of the US. They are cheap the fix but more importantly rarely go wrong. Maybe the just replace things known to be wrong. Like for our G, you go in for oil change at 50k and they replace your compression rods. This way you never really deal with an issue but you pay more upfront for less incoinvence down the road. So when you go to rate your car, you would say no issues. I never been in euro countries to know much, but i know most my euro guys who i know in america, work on their own cars.
Funny you ask that about the water flooding - they did say it was due to the sunroof. I've owned five cars with sunroofs, and the only one that has ever led to flooding in my car is the VW. You say "environmental factors", I say it was a poor design. The car was a stick shift, so no problems with the transmission. And I will say this: it was a wonderful transmission.
The locking mechanisms failed three times. Here's the thing - I didn't REALIZE it had failed. I spent an untold amount of time thinking my car was locked whenever I hit the button on my keychain, because the car chirped - but it wasn't locking! I'm amazed nothing was ever stolen out of that car.
I actually made a list of everything that went wrong with the car before I turned it in. I'll post it on here if I ever find it, but remember clearly it was 27 problems. I turned the car in at just over 40,000 miles. I'm at around 64,000 miles with my G35x, and zero problems. And never bring it to the dealer anymore. It's been serviced far less than the Passat was, but runs infinitely better.
#54
04-01-2011, 07:50 AM
Thank you for the detailed response. The interesting thing about the radio dying was that it didn't die until I had the trip computer fixed. I brought it in, the trip computer was fixed, but it came out and the radio didn't work. It didn't have to be reprogrammed - it was full on broken. Something tells me it wouldn't have broken if the techs weren't in there replacing another part, but who knows. Funny side note: when I got the car back with the new trip computer, the techs had knocked about 4,500 miles off the odometer. And the annoying seat belt alarm was gone. So that was actually an awesome failure since the car was leased and that alarm drove me crazy.
Funny you ask that about the water flooding - they did say it was due to the sunroof. I've owned five cars with sunroofs, and the only one that has ever led to flooding in my car is the VW. You say "environmental factors", I say it was a poor design. The car was a stick shift, so no problems with the transmission. And I will say this: it was a wonderful transmission.
The locking mechanisms failed three times. Here's the thing - I didn't REALIZE it had failed. I spent an untold amount of time thinking my car was locked whenever I hit the button on my keychain, because the car chirped - but it wasn't locking! I'm amazed nothing was ever stolen out of that car.
I actually made a list of everything that went wrong with the car before I turned it in. I'll post it on here if I ever find it, but remember clearly it was 27 problems. I turned the car in at just over 40,000 miles. I'm at around 64,000 miles with my G35x, and zero problems. And never bring it to the dealer anymore. It's been serviced far less than the Passat was, but runs infinitely better.
Funny you ask that about the water flooding - they did say it was due to the sunroof. I've owned five cars with sunroofs, and the only one that has ever led to flooding in my car is the VW. You say "environmental factors", I say it was a poor design. The car was a stick shift, so no problems with the transmission. And I will say this: it was a wonderful transmission.
The locking mechanisms failed three times. Here's the thing - I didn't REALIZE it had failed. I spent an untold amount of time thinking my car was locked whenever I hit the button on my keychain, because the car chirped - but it wasn't locking! I'm amazed nothing was ever stolen out of that car.
I actually made a list of everything that went wrong with the car before I turned it in. I'll post it on here if I ever find it, but remember clearly it was 27 problems. I turned the car in at just over 40,000 miles. I'm at around 64,000 miles with my G35x, and zero problems. And never bring it to the dealer anymore. It's been serviced far less than the Passat was, but runs infinitely better.
The sunroof thing is both a design flaw and environmental related. openings were too large so little twigs can get stuck in and clogg up causing a overflow in the cabin. See and repaired mainly. For your cluster, you cant get it dead on the mileage, but normally its +/- 10 miles, not 4500. I think you had a dumb tech, who shorted your radio and forgot to code the cluster so it didn't have the seat belt chime. Which seems to be a plus for you. Another thought would be maybe the techs are better in europe then US. They fix it right the first time.
Yea my g35x only needs compression rods and a idler pulley at 55k.
I still think the new audi's are a good buy. I'm not in the auto world anymore so i cant give you first hand knowledge on them. But the 2.0T FSI motors did have some issues with cam followers. VW rolled with a 2.0T TSI motor, chain driven and supposedly fixed a few issues here and there. I've been in a 06 A4 stage 1 flash, which is suppose to be like 241hp/291 tq and i can say it should take out the G35x. It made great power and i liked the trans on that. If only $500 can get us 1/2 those gains.
http://www.goapr.com/products/ecu_up...tfsi_long.html
#55
04-02-2011, 11:52 AM
Join Date: May 2008
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Same thing happened to me, when I was shopping the G against the A4.. I went to test drive the A4 with only 31k for miles and I started it and got a "check engine" light... kinda like "wtf this car is an 07??" **on a side note, I like how some people in this post aren't bias towards the G and give solid points for both**
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