I apologize in advance about the long post...

My 2002 BMW 325i lease expires in early October. I've researched my cars and found that I really like the G35 sedan. I've done tons of research on the this car so I have a good idea about current money factor, residuals and that they're selling for about invoice (plus or minus $300). My BMW lease allows for 36,000 miles, but I'm only at 27,000 with 4 months to go. So, I figure I may be on the plus side of the equation because my payoff price is calculated assuming higher mileage.

I went to my local Southern California dealer once for a test drive and then again so they could look at my BMW to gauge trade-in value. I asked them to assume I had a high credit score (which I do), but didn't want them to run it in case I they couldn't give me a decent trade. (Don't want the "ding" on my credit report if I don't have to.) If they couldn't give me enough on the trade in, I'd just ride out my lease and come back in four months or so.

So, the salesman/internet manager/fleet manager confers with the GM and the used car manager and comes back and says, "You're not going to like these numbers because they don't think you're committed to doing this today." Well, no @#$&! I told the salesperson I was doing this on my lunch and had limited time. As a result of my "unwillingness" to make a deal that day, the first offer from them is $659 a freaking month for a 39 month lease with zero down. I about fell over.

After having some heated words with the salesperson in the middle of showroom, I walked out, with him tailing me the entire way. I told him his initial offer was insulting and was the wrong approach for fostering a committed customer. He went on and on about them needing the customer statement, that three more people needed to look at the BMW, etc, etc.

So my question is... am I out of line to be so heated about it? I mean, I HATE buying cars and this "tactic" just drives home the fact that it is a sleazy experience. Imagine if I did have all day, I would have started the negotiations at $659 a month! Secondly, it really bugged me that they needed my payoff amount on my BMW before the negotiations started. It's kinda like playing poker with your cards all facing up. You know that once they know what your payoff is, that it becomes a "negotiable" item. Should I be bothered about this? Any way to get around it, like telling them I owe about $xxxxx.xx, on the car, but refusing to give any further info.

Unless I want to do the song and dance, I'm thinking I'll just have to wait it out for 4 months until the BMW lease expires, which kinda blows. Or, should I give this dealer all my info and give them another shot at it? Anybody have any other negotiation hints for me?

 

I may be the wrong person to ask but I gave up on the "showroom" experience awhile back. Too much shuck and jive for me, I am just not willing to go through those motions. Luckily in the internet-autobytel-etc era I am unaware of any reason to go through the regular salespeople. I exempt the fleet sales people from my rant.

Showrooms are for deciding on what car to buy and what options to order what the colors look like etc, not the actual purchase.

I agree with your pissed off, stomping out, attitude.

 

I visited the Infiniti dealer here in Richmond, VA looking for a used G35. Next thing I know the sales guy wants to run numbers on a brand new loaded 2005. He says they are willing to deal and I'll be shocked at the monthly payment he can get me. Needless to say I was shocked...in a bad way. He even did the "let me talk to my manager" routine. I then went the email route w/ Passport Infiniti and they gave me the "out the door" price on a new 05 that was very competitive to buying used. No hidden costs, just upfront honest pricing. I had to drive an extra 1.5 hours, but it was worth it.

 

You guys are right. No way I'm going to award that kind of crap by giving them a second chance. There are about 6 dealers within 30 miles of me, and I'm sure one will be plenty happy to talk about a deal without the sleaze.

In fact, I did the Infiinity "request for quote" tonight on the car of my choice at the dealer closest to my house. Got a response back within a couple of hours... $260 below invoice. So, what is my next step? Do I approach this as two separate transactions, one a trade in and one a lease? I don't want to hardball them on lease numbers and then turn around and say, "Oh, by the way, I have this trade in we need to talk about." I want to be fair about, but I don't want the value of my old car to interfere with negotiating on the lease.

Maybe let them know up front that I have the trade in and will discuss it after the lease figures are finalized? Anybody been in this position before? How did you all handle it? Also, is if fair game to withhold my payoff info, or am I bound by "good faith" to reveal it?

Thanks again...

 

$260 below invoice sounds like a lowball to me but if not it's a great deal. I think you're right at this point to come clean with your intentions and get a scenario quoted on both perhaps from several dealers. It's not likely though you will have the absolute lowest price for the new lease to be based on and an incredible trade in value too.
Good luck.

 

Unless you want to kiss off 2-3K, you have to sell your old car yourself, there's no way around it.

 

Generally in car buying they suggest that it be approached as two deals if you are trading in. Consumer Reports recommends getting the best price you can on the purchase and then asking about the trade in. This also makes it much easier to compare different dealers and to figure out which options you can afford.

When getting a lease, you should focus on the cost of the car and the interest rates, not on the monthly payment, per se. The monthly payment will be determined by those factors, but if you go in saying I can afford XXX dollars, you may not get the best deal on the car. I'm not a big fan of leases for this and several other reasons, although for some people they make sense.

I don't know what the protocol with the lease is, but you could make your best deal on the new purchase/lease and then work on the trade-in/lease takeover. I imagine they need to know what they will have to pay off on your lease to know what they can give you for it, since your car's value is reduced by the amount owed on it. I had a good experience getting rid of a leased car (Audi A4) early when I bought my previous I30. Some dealers are better than others.

Good luck!

 

RBull... based on my research, $260 below invoice is about right on. Not sure about the rest of the country, but there is a huge surplus of sedans in Southern Cal. Lot of dealers are holding multiple sedans with same configuration. (In this case, the dealer who quoted it has 3 diamond graphite/graphite with premium C on his lot.) Also, Infiniti is finding great success with the new M, and they're trying to clear floor space to make way for them.

Andy, thanks for advice on approaching it as two transactions. I'm also intimately familiar with lease components (MF, residual and cap cost) and will not negotiate on a monthly payment basis. (I have a great software program. Lease Wizard, that plugs in all the numbers and options on every car. It makes the only variable the MF, which is somewhat negotiable at the dealer.)

And you're also right about giving up the lease payoff info. And yes, I probably will lose a grand (hopefully not two!) in the deal. However, I'll take that as the price of doing business and in not having to "beautify" my car prior to lease return. (Tire tread is marginal and I've got tint on all four windows... a no-no in Cal. BMW would probably ding me on those.)

 

I agree with Andy's advice. Negotiate the new car cost first and then talk about the tradein. Otherwise, you are either going to get a fair price on one and not the other. If the dealer is trying to play games and not give you want you are looking for then I would walk out too.

 

As far as I am concerned, how I pay for the car is none of the salesman's business. When they start talking about how much I want to pay per month, my current car or anything other than what they will sell me the car for, I politely refuse to discuss it. It is no more their business than how I make my money. None of this has any bearing on what the price for this car will be. Once we have agreed on a mutually agreeable price, I tell them whether I want to apply for their financing, get my own financing or pay cash.
If you determine what you are willing to take for your BMW, you can ask for that in a trade-in after they give you an acceptable price on the new G. If they won't give you that without reneging on the agreed G price, you leave. The process is the same whether you are trading in a car you own or one that you are leasing. They don't need to know a g--d--mn thing about it till you find out what the purchase price is. It is irrelevant to the sale price. At worst, you wait 4 months till your lease expires, and you get great prices for a 2005 G.
And don't get mad, don't storm out, just smile, and speak in a soft voice and refuse to do anything you don't want to do. It pisses them off more than anything else. And don't worry about them, they will never make a deal they lose on, will they?

 

You make my job an absolute joy mate...

 

scdgoofy it sounds like you've done your research. It shows what a huge discrepancy there is because of both competition and supply and demand. Where I live sedans are selling for less than $1000 off MSRP since there is no other dealer around and inventories aren't high.
Andy has given you some great advice on executing a good deal.

Best of luck.

 

Well, it looks like I'm still about 4 months away from my new G. I went to another So Cal dealership over the weekend and had an offer on the table for a G35 sedan with Premium C for $300 under invoice. Residual was 61%, money factor through Infiniti was .00194 and mileage was 12k a year. Monthly payment was $391 plus 8.25% tax ($423 total monthly payment). Couldn't have asked for a better deal!

However, the remaining 4 months on my BMW lease screwed it all up. They lowballed me on the trade-in by at least $1,100. They basically took the KBB.com trade-in price and subtracted $1,100. This made the difference between my payoff and their price about $2,900, which was just too much for me.

Then, they took another route and said "we'll pay your remaining 4 lease payments of $500 each". Obviously, no such thing as a free lunch because it meant that I was really paying the last 4 payments. They were going to increase the selling price by $1,000 and then add $1,000 to closing costs. So essentially, I would pay off the lease and then hand the car over to them four months early. No thanks. This route also wouldn't have freed me from the wear and tear charges that BMW loves to tack on because I would still be lessee, they would just turn it in on my behalf. At least with a payoff, I would walk away free and clear.

C'est la vie. I hope I can find a similar deal sometime in mid September, but the wait is going to kill me!

 

FYI: I believe they recently passed a law or something that makes it to that you can shop around for financing and not have your credit score lowered for all the inquiries.