Oh...and since QuadCam said he has a trade-in to deal with...and I quote, "such a hassle"...

Please keep in mind that to many people it IS such a hassle. And alot of people don't want to deal w/ any hassles. We're in America...everyone wants CONVENIENCE. And, as we all know...nothing is free. In this case, you may make a few more dollars if you sold your car youself...but such a hassle. The alternative? Trade it in & let the dealer worry about it...but, at a cost. That sounds pretty fair to me, no?

C'mon folks...lets be realistic here, a car dealership is just another business. I DO AGREE...there are lots of "bad, sleezy, greasy, lying, cheating" car dealers out there...BUT, lets not bash the entire industry k? PLEASE? ^-^

SMILE...your car purchase as a "car enthusiast" should be one of the happiest events...so enjoy it! Don't make it a "battle vs the bad guys"! ^-^

 

No....Dealers (Infiniti) don't pay invoice for a car. They pay invoice plus 4% a month floor plan fees (bank finance fees) after 60 days. Depending on quarterly sales, Infiniti may, or may not, give the dealer incentives to help overcome slow periods by stimulating the market place. Dealers also get a manufactures "hold back" allotment. This money is designated to help dealers pay the floor plan fees that the banks affix to older stock units. Most dealers in the NJ area will work with $500. over cost (tissue), minus incentives (incentives are made public knowledge via the dealer or Infiniti web site) on G's and FX's. I don't know why the manufactures even bother with posting Monroni stickers (MSRP window stickers)....NOBODY pays it, AND most everybody knows (to within a close degree) what the dealer paid for it.LOL ..I wish I could shop at Lowes that way. Imagine ......"hey buddy, I know what you guys paid for that Weber grill and I'm willing to go as much as $30.00 over your cost" lol ....I wish!!!! Take care guys and girls. JBX

 

JBX...

FINALLY, someone said something brilliant!!! Coincidence that your s/n is Just"Brilliant"X huh? LOL

What I'm referring to is the comment about going to Lowe's!!! Thank you, thank you!!!

^-^

 

And again, Lowes sells their grill to everyone for say $300. If you don't want to buy it there at that price, you can see what Home Depot will sell it to everyone for.

In the case of the sale of a home or a car and many other goods the buyer makes an offer and the seller deals with it as he or she sees fit. In fact, some pay full MSRP for a given car and some pay much less. There is nothing wrong with a buyer wanting to pay much less - and there is certainly nothing wrong with a purveyor trying to maximize their profit.

BTW, next time you are shopping for a grill and have determined what a good and fair price is for that grill, when you are at Lowes ask to speak to the Store Manager and tell him that you can get the grill from Ace Hardware for $X but would prefer to buy it at Lowes... you may be surprised.

 

And again... I was responding to your query re;"Are you suggesting that Invoice price is what the dealer paid for the car?"

 

The problems come from the history of the industry. Fortunately, it seems that the industry is on the up and up. Now that more is being revealed to the consumer, business practices are improving.

Most people cannot stand the car buying experience. I have a feeling that the majority of the problem comes from the "trade-in value." While there is negotiating room on the sales side of the new car, there is a huge amount of room for the dealer to take advantage of the buyer's trade-in.

Don't most buyer's have the "me against the dealership" attitude? Is that attitude unwarranted? I don't think so. Buyers have mental scars from their previous car buying experience. Hence, the buyer comes prepared to "try" to low-ball the dealer.

it is unfortunate.

Can you tell I'm really not looking forward to this pruchase? The car: yes. The deal: no.

 

Back in the dotcom boom, I helped develop a tablet computer designed for Used Car Managers. It was pretty slick: it had a bar-code reader to scan the vins of cars, a wireless modem ( 9600 baud ) with carfax integration, built-in support for one of three evaluation books ( Kelly, Black book, or NADA ), and an attached digital camera. The Used Car Manager could use this tool to either appraise a trade-in, or book in new stock ( trade, auction, etc ), and the inventory would automatically be uploaded to his site that night.

Anyway, one day I decided to take the tablet with me while looking at used 300M's. I went to a local dealer, that had 4 in stock, and when I told him that the one I was interested in was stickered $2500 over the average of KBB and NADA, he freaked, and asked me to leave.

I'm not a car saleman, nor have I ever been in sales. However, I worked with Used Car/Internet Managers very closely for almost three years, in various parts of the country. While it's true they are in the business of making money, they are actually in the business of making as much money as they think they can. If a guy with bad credit walks in, he's likely not eligible for that shiny new sports sedan; he may only be able to afford that Kia. He may be approved for as little as 15% interest, and as high as 24%. Out of all the car guys I ever worked with, I can say with confidence that 3 out of 5 would have started negotiations off at the 24% mark. Incredible.

Oh, and the "let me talk to my manager" thing. I've been there when they do that. Many times, they were just coming back to chat for a few minutes; few times did anything of substance ever pass between the manager and the salesperson.

With that, I fully expect to be flamed

 

With car prices being what they are, I fully expect to see laws protecting buyers in the future. It happened in the real estate industry in FLA. where schisters (sp?) sold swamp land to people back in the early 20th century. Now, all the laws are designed to protect the buyers and sellers. The agents have major responsiblities and liabilities. They can be sued for malpractice, just like attorneys and doctors.

I know of a former car sales manager who was just sentenced to 3 years of federal jail time because his sales associates were falsifying credit apps to get buyers approved. The FBI caught wind of it, forced a salesman to wear a wire, and took down 'em down. This happened in Gainesville, FL.

 

Nicely put QC..... it's a shame, but spot on.

 

My god ...where do I start?
JustBrilliantX - good and accurate infomation.
As for the others.. go back and read what he wrote again. If you have not been in upper mgmt or a principal at an auto dealership, then you do NOT know what they pay for the car! Stop trying to pass your opinion that is based on what he/she said as fact. Dealers pay invoice minus any applicable holdback and or rebates plus any applicable flooring costs.
*Holdback - do any of you (excluding JustBrilliantX, including Gthree5 6MT) know what it really is? I have posted it before, but again..it is $ that is given to a dealership to compensate them for:
1) advertising costs - the dealer spends hundreds of thousands of $ / year. The manufacturer certainly benefits from this, thus they chip in on a car by car basis.
2) Flooring costs - As JBX mentioned, and I will just elaborate, most dealers(except for the big ones like AutoNation aka Power that have their own financial institutions)do not buy the cars from the manufacturer initially. They, per say, rent them until they sell the cars themselves. This rent or flooring, is interest on the value of the car paid to a financial institution/ bank (ie. IFS). When the car is actually sold to a consumer and the deal is funded, the dealer then pays the manufacturer for the car.
I, as a consumer, do not expect any dealer to give up any of the holdback to me in the negotiation process.
I do go after dealer rebates/dealer cash. These are rebates just like the ones that we see manufacturers give to consumers except they are not often common knowledge. They are published in the back of Automotive News.
*Others pay more- you get a paycheck for working don't you? Then don't object to having to work a little to get a better discount.
*Trade-ins - Unless your trade-in is < 4 yrs old and w/ < ~75K miles then the dealer will likely sell your car to a wholesaler or take it to the auction. Wholesalers then hit the dealers very low for your trade-in. They now have to sell it and get what they can for with your car. In short, either sell it yourself and get more money, or in essence, pay the dealer to rid you of the hassle.
*Honesty - many salesman take the easy route to increase the gross profit by telling the consumer whatever it takes to sell them, often resulting in lies. Many consumers trade in their cars ridden with problems, yet don't inform the dealers. It is what it is..
The auto industry has had a terrible, yet deserved reputation. Years ago, > 20 it was horrific. Fortunately, progressive changes have favored the consumer.
*Other retailing - Let's think about furniture, electronics (specifically big screen TVs) Do we know how much they pay for their products? The same price fluctuation exists there too, it is just not as publicized.
In conclusion, if you want a great deal on your next car...work for it. Research and negotiate.
From my experience, $500 over invoice is fair, $750 for a 6MT, barring rebates. Any higher and the dealer/salesman will have to work you for it. Any less and you will have to work the dealer/salesman for it.

I hope that this post is found to be informative and will cut down on the whining.

 

Thanks so much Poker. Great job and VERY frigg'n informative to those out there who may not have had "the opportunity?" to serve in the legions of "car sales hell". It is most definately a two way street paved with the good , mediocre, and down right corrupt.