stock '05 G vs. stock '05 STI
Originally Posted by DP03
G35 TX, just opened up a mag to see if you were even close. Nope.
AWD auto is within 1/10 in ET, and within 6/10 of 1 mph in trap speeds of the RWD auto. That, my friend, is as close to a tie as they come. And of course, with the right driver (very important) I would expect the 6MT to do better than both. But the fact is, 6MT cars performance rely a lot on driver abilities, whereas the auto do not. In the real world, many a MT driver gets surprised. If you've been racing that long, you also know autos are king at the dragstrip. Why, because they are easier to launch and get better 60' times. Same applies on the street.
AWD auto is within 1/10 in ET, and within 6/10 of 1 mph in trap speeds of the RWD auto. That, my friend, is as close to a tie as they come. And of course, with the right driver (very important) I would expect the 6MT to do better than both. But the fact is, 6MT cars performance rely a lot on driver abilities, whereas the auto do not. In the real world, many a MT driver gets surprised. If you've been racing that long, you also know autos are king at the dragstrip. Why, because they are easier to launch and get better 60' times. Same applies on the street.
I don't mag race sir. I go by what has been proven on this site for times.
And FYI, the STI does 13.3~ at 100 mph.
The G35 does 14.1~ at 99-101 mph
So again how is the STI faster? TRAP SPEED MEANS EVERYTHING IN A DRAG RACE. IT shows which one is the faster car not the actual 1/4 time.
Autos are only good because you usually can get the same times over and over again and they don't require as much skill. 6mts will always be the faster car if the driver is good.
One question, HAVE you taken your G35 to the track? If not, then please EOD right now.
G35X times.....Quick search on this site...
05 G35x 14.8" 94 mph
14.50 @95.77 - 60': 2.11
FYI, The G35X is slower than the G35 6mt/5AT RWD. It is almost 5 mph slower in most cases period.
5 MPH slower in a drag race is about 4-5 car lengths.
AWD only has good launches. That is where its best at. But after 0-30 its all over for most AWD cars.
05 G35x 14.8" 94 mph
14.50 @95.77 - 60': 2.11
FYI, The G35X is slower than the G35 6mt/5AT RWD. It is almost 5 mph slower in most cases period.
5 MPH slower in a drag race is about 4-5 car lengths.
AWD only has good launches. That is where its best at. But after 0-30 its all over for most AWD cars.
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Originally Posted by G35_TX
I don't mag race sir. I go by what has been proven on this site for times.
And FYI, the STI does 13.3~ at 100 mph.
The G35 does 14.1~ at 99-101 mph
So again how is the STI faster? TRAP SPEED MEANS EVERYTHING IN A DRAG RACE. IT shows which one is the faster car not the actual 1/4 time.
Autos are only good because you usually can get the same times over and over again and they don't require as much skill. 6mts will always be the faster car if the driver is good.
One question, HAVE you taken your G35 to the track? If not, then please EOD right now.
And FYI, the STI does 13.3~ at 100 mph.
The G35 does 14.1~ at 99-101 mph
So again how is the STI faster? TRAP SPEED MEANS EVERYTHING IN A DRAG RACE. IT shows which one is the faster car not the actual 1/4 time.
Autos are only good because you usually can get the same times over and over again and they don't require as much skill. 6mts will always be the faster car if the driver is good.
One question, HAVE you taken your G35 to the track? If not, then please EOD right now.
http://mywebpages.comcast.net/dbeofam/Dave3.JPG
And too bad you're not closer. Cause I'd bet you a weeks pay that you would not beat me by 5 car lengths in a race of say, 1/8 mile or less on the street. In fact, depending on how well you launch, you could well lose that race. Remember, no sticky launch pad on the street. Lots of spin for you......
Last edited by DP03; Oct 22, 2005 at 02:37 PM.
OMG and you been drag racing? Dude don't even reply to me again because its obvious you have no clue what your talking about.
Autos are consistetly better because they are consistent in there times PERIOD. A 6mt can get a better 60 ft over a auto if done right. A auto will get better 60 foots MOST of the time but that isn't the reason why people use autos for drag racing. For a high powered car a auto is easier period to drive. But most drag racers don't use autos that have over 1000 hp cars. They usually have a 3 speed gear box.
Excuse me? Every test you see 6mts are always FASTER PERIOD. EOD on this.
I use to own a LS1. A 99 TransAM 6mt to be exact. It was faster than most autos I ran even wtih mods.
That's funny. Wonder why I know a few LS1 powered cars pulling 1.3x 60 fts with slicks and a 6mt. Of course they broke the trannys doing that, and rear ends, but they did.
Btw, let me have what your smoking if you think autos are faster than the 6mt.
PS, you were also the one that said AWD COULD NOT LAUNCH as fast as a RWD car. And now your saying its better. MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
Autos are consistetly better because they are consistent in there times PERIOD. A 6mt can get a better 60 ft over a auto if done right. A auto will get better 60 foots MOST of the time but that isn't the reason why people use autos for drag racing. For a high powered car a auto is easier period to drive. But most drag racers don't use autos that have over 1000 hp cars. They usually have a 3 speed gear box.
Excuse me? Every test you see 6mts are always FASTER PERIOD. EOD on this.
I use to own a LS1. A 99 TransAM 6mt to be exact. It was faster than most autos I ran even wtih mods.
That's funny. Wonder why I know a few LS1 powered cars pulling 1.3x 60 fts with slicks and a 6mt. Of course they broke the trannys doing that, and rear ends, but they did.
Btw, let me have what your smoking if you think autos are faster than the 6mt.
PS, you were also the one that said AWD COULD NOT LAUNCH as fast as a RWD car. And now your saying its better. MAKE UP YOUR MIND.
Originally Posted by DP03
Wrong again, wise one. Autos consistently do better at the track for one reason. Better 60'. Period. Most auto's can finish first with less power due to their 60' times. Yes, they are also more consistent, which can win bracket races, but they also are better at crossing the finish line first, which is what it's all about. Your comment about MT's always being faster with a good driver is wrong, and shows you really haven't done as much racing as you would like us to think. In my LS1 club, MT cars with 50 hp more than my car, and with the very best drivers we had, could rarely pull 1.4x or 1.5x 60' times like the auto could. So, while they trapped higher (more power) they could never match the ET's. So I would in fact make the opposite statement that you did. Autos are faster at the strip. MT's are faster at autocross. That's just the way it is. My Camaro only had 400 RWHP, quite a bit less that some of the 6MT LS'1s in our club. But I could launch like this, and they couldn't:
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We can agree to disagree here. I don't want to argue all day. I used to be very active on LS1tech.com and my car is still featured on the front page of the easternfbody.com website (same pic as I posted above). LS1tech has a database of it's fastest cars, which I'm in. If you look at that list, the vast majority of 10 sec cars or better are autos. Just as the vast majority of fast cars at the dragstrip are autos.
I haven't got specific with you here, but autos are faster at the track due to 60' advantages which are in turn due to aftermarket torque converters. Yes, auto are also more consistent, and therefore win most brackets as well. The mag results you are referring to are correct, for stock cars. But the first thing that any serious racer does to an auto is torque converter, and the MT's can't compete against that.
I'm not talking smack. Slow down and read. My challenge to you was on the street, where the launch would help me considerably. Now if you're a very good driver, and get a perfect launch (not likely on the street), then I'd expect you to win.
I haven't got specific with you here, but autos are faster at the track due to 60' advantages which are in turn due to aftermarket torque converters. Yes, auto are also more consistent, and therefore win most brackets as well. The mag results you are referring to are correct, for stock cars. But the first thing that any serious racer does to an auto is torque converter, and the MT's can't compete against that.
I'm not talking smack. Slow down and read. My challenge to you was on the street, where the launch would help me considerably. Now if you're a very good driver, and get a perfect launch (not likely on the street), then I'd expect you to win.
Last edited by DP03; Oct 22, 2005 at 02:47 PM.
A TQ converter will bridge the gap between the 6mt and auto G35 to basically nothing. But stock there is a huge difference. And trap times speak for themselves. The higher the trap speed the faster the car is. Like I said, one G35 gets 100-101 mph, and a G35X gets 94 mph. The G35X will not win but will loose by 2-4 car lengths. The G35 will past it and beat it to the line.
Originally Posted by DP03
We can agree to disagree here. I don't want to argue all day. I used to be very active on LS1tech.com and my car is still featured on the front page of the easternfbody.com website (same pic as I posted above). LS1tech has a database of it's fastest cars, which I'm in. If you look at that list, the vast majority of 10 sec cars or better are autos. Just as the vast majority of fast cars at the dragstrip are autos.
I haven't got specific with you here, but autos are faster at the track due to 60' advantages which are in turn due to aftermarket torque converters. Yes, auto are also more consistent, and therefore win most brackets as well. The mag results you are referring to are correct, for stock cars. But the first thing that any serious racer does to an auto is torque converter, and the MT's can't compete against that.
I'm not talking smack. Slow down and read. My challenge to you was on the street, where the launch would help me considerably. Now if you're a very good driver, and get a perfect launch (not likely on the street), then I'd expect you to win.
I haven't got specific with you here, but autos are faster at the track due to 60' advantages which are in turn due to aftermarket torque converters. Yes, auto are also more consistent, and therefore win most brackets as well. The mag results you are referring to are correct, for stock cars. But the first thing that any serious racer does to an auto is torque converter, and the MT's can't compete against that.
I'm not talking smack. Slow down and read. My challenge to you was on the street, where the launch would help me considerably. Now if you're a very good driver, and get a perfect launch (not likely on the street), then I'd expect you to win.
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Originally Posted by G35_TX
A TQ converter will bridge the gap between the 6mt and auto G35 to basically nothing. But stock there is a huge difference. And trap times speak for themselves. The higher the trap speed the faster the car is. Like I said, one G35 gets 100-101 mph, and a G35X gets 94 mph. The G35X will not win but will loose by 2-4 car lengths. The G35 will past it and beat it to the line.
. I agree that stock for stock the RWD MT has more power, and would win a "perfect race". Most of my points have been differentiating between that perfect race and a street race.Big difference. The STi would put a big hurting in a perfect race, but you can see that some have different outcomes on the street. As far as converters go, I know (from experimenting with four different ones in my SS) what I'm saying is right. A good converter does MUCH more than just even things out with an MT car. It becomes a downright unfair advantage.
Gotta go dude. Hope our next conversation is better. Oh, and the only reason I haven't taken the G to the track is because I just turned 1,000 miles (third car). Plus I really want to add some power before going. I really wouldn't be too proud of running 14's. Problem is, right now it looks like FI or nitrous is the only way to really help things much without going inside the motor.
I'll just butt in and say if you want to be the quickest F-Body, you'll want to run an auto. All of the quickest F-bodies are autos. A stall converter gives the auto an immense torque multiplication advantage. The 6MT can neither take the shock nor power. Dollar for dollar, the auto F-body will always reign supreme in the 1/4 mile. When you're running 11s and lower, you simply can't shift fast enough or consistently. With a motor that displaces so much torque, the overall gearing of a manual isn't needed at all.
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DaveB, the autos can't take the shock of a good converter either. Take it from someone who roasted the stock rear and snapped the rear axle at the same time, right at launch. I prided myself on driving my car to and from the track (no trailer here), but that's one time my baby left on a flatbed....
After that it was a Strange 12 bolt and no problems thereafter......the stock Fbody tranny (4L60E) was a weak link for the racing crowd, too. I had mine built, but I was still really pushing that unit to the limit. The right answer was a TH350 or 400, if you were willing to lose overdrive and lockup, which I wasn't as a daily driver.
After that it was a Strange 12 bolt and no problems thereafter......the stock Fbody tranny (4L60E) was a weak link for the racing crowd, too. I had mine built, but I was still really pushing that unit to the limit. The right answer was a TH350 or 400, if you were willing to lose overdrive and lockup, which I wasn't as a daily driver.
Originally Posted by DaveB
I'll just butt in and say if you want to be the quickest F-Body, you'll want to run an auto. All of the quickest F-bodies are autos. A stall converter gives the auto an immense torque multiplication advantage. The 6MT can neither take the shock nor power. Dollar for dollar, the auto F-body will always reign supreme in the 1/4 mile. When you're running 11s and lower, you simply can't shift fast enough or consistently. With a motor that displaces so much torque, the overall gearing of a manual isn't needed at all.
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G35 TX, not going to start the pissing match over again, but what kind of mods do these 9-10 sec MT's have? I'm assuming FI or nitrous, because in all my experience with the "street crowd", 10 sec MT's are out there, but far fewer than the autos. 9's? And 1.3x MT cars? Perhaps you're talking about VERY modified, gutted cars? Point me to a link or something. I'm very interested in seeing them. Thanks.
LS1's can go 10's with a good heads/cam package and supporting drivetrain mods. 9's require more, for sure.
LS1's can go 10's with a good heads/cam package and supporting drivetrain mods. 9's require more, for sure.
Originally Posted by DP03
G35 TX, not going to start the pissing match over again, but what kind of mods do these 9-10 sec MT's have? I'm assuming FI or nitrous, because in all my experience with the "street crowd", 10 sec MT's are out there, but far fewer than the autos. 9's? And 1.3x MT cars? Perhaps you're talking about VERY modified, gutted cars? Point me to a link or something. I'm very interested in seeing them. Thanks.
LS1's can go 10's with a good heads/cam package and supporting drivetrain mods. 9's require more, for sure.
LS1's can go 10's with a good heads/cam package and supporting drivetrain mods. 9's require more, for sure.
Daily driven cars
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OK, I can see that, then. MTI is an excellent shop that turns out top notch packages. Some of the faster cars on LS1tech came from MTI.
I'd still like to see the 1.3x MT cars. I doubt there's many out there. If so, they must be using multiple stage NOS. I still think 1.3x would be a serious challenge, because all the power in the world is hard to put down while shifting.
I'd still like to see the 1.3x MT cars. I doubt there's many out there. If so, they must be using multiple stage NOS. I still think 1.3x would be a serious challenge, because all the power in the world is hard to put down while shifting.
Originally Posted by DP03
OK, I can see that, then. MTI is an excellent shop that turns out top notch packages. Some of the faster cars on LS1tech came from MTI.
I'd still like to see the 1.3x MT cars. I doubt there's many out there. If so, they must be using multiple stage NOS. I still think 1.3x would be a serious challenge, because all the power in the world is hard to put down while shifting.
I'd still like to see the 1.3x MT cars. I doubt there's many out there. If so, they must be using multiple stage NOS. I still think 1.3x would be a serious challenge, because all the power in the world is hard to put down while shifting.