07 G35 Motor Trend Article Scanned
For what its worth, my observation has been that BMW problems, when they do occur, are significantly more costly than those for Infiniti. Why do you think they had to start including all scheduled maintenance for the term of the warranty? I had a friend who had one and it typically cost her the better part of $600-700 at each scheduled maintenance.
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Well regardless of whether infiniti or bmw is more reliable, it doesn't really matter. I guess all im trying to say is when ppl knock on bmw its becoming increasing common that they talk about bmw's reliability issues. And i guess to be fair, im just trying to defend something that is just absolutely untrue. Bmw's reliability is not as bad as what ppl say it is, alot of other brands has much worse reliability and even when there are problems with bmw its mostly 7 series and 5 series. The 3 series is a pretty reliable car, thats why they always get such rave reviews, its still the benchmark and its not without reason. And since we are only comparing the g35 to the 3 series, i can honestly say after having experience with both cars that i dont think the 3 series is any less reliable than the g35, i wouldn't say its more reliable but its definitely not less reliable. Im just trying to give a honest opinion.
Last edited by Gaaaar; Aug 24, 2006 at 09:26 PM.
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Originally Posted by vt_maverick
For what its worth, my observation has been that BMW problems, when they do occur, are significantly more costly than those for Infiniti. Why do you think they had to start including all scheduled maintenance for the term of the warranty? I had a friend who had one and it typically cost her the better part of $600-700 at each scheduled maintenance.
Completely different experience. My friend bought a 330 around the same time as my g35 coupe...he brought his car to the dealership for numerous problems (such as temp sensor going out, power windows, etc..) while mine has been absolutely trouble free. I have several other friends with BMW and most have waaaaay more problems than my friends that own the Lexus IS300 and other Japanese makes (except the rx7...that thing is a pain to deal with).
BTW, consumer reports (a much better source of reliability information) gives the 3 series an average mark while the G35 gets the "above average" mark. G35 >>>3 series in reliability in most publications.
BTW, consumer reports (a much better source of reliability information) gives the 3 series an average mark while the G35 gets the "above average" mark. G35 >>>3 series in reliability in most publications.
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Originally Posted by Gaaaar
Actually BMW has free maintenance, during warranty. Come to think of it, infiniti is actually more expensive since bmw is free.
If you look closer at the manual...BMWs recommended oil change don't come until about 11,000 mile, the computer will let you know when to bring it in. You cannot bring it in every 3000 mile just cuz the oil change is free. If you leased a BMW, you're limited to roughly 15K mile a year. That means in 3 yrs time, you're only getting 3-4 oil changed plus a coolant and maybe tranny fluid change depending on your mileage. Spark plugs are at least 60-100K, so they don't even need changing during the waranty period. The most it'll cost BMW in 3 yrs is probably $200 or less. But what they gain in consumer confidence into buying their vehicle amounts to millions.
I use to use that tactics when my family use to own a used car dealership. We give free oil changed to anyone who bought a car for a full year or 15K(whichever comes first). Sales increased 5 folds. What the customer don't know is we use the cheapest oil/filter and we already added the cost of a 3-4 oil changed into the price of the vehicle. So there was no profit lost. Since the oil and filters are dirt cheap at dealers cost, we actually made more money. When our customers bring our vehicles back for free oil changes, we make the mechanics point out things that may need repairing since the time they bought the vehilce from us. Being able to service the vehicles we sell instead of customers taking them somewhere else amounts to thousands.
But to BMWs credit..they do give you Mobil1 synthetic oil, but any real car enthusiasts know that wether you use synthetic or not...you should still change your oil often because gets dirty just like conventional oil. Sythetic may protect an engine better during hard driving, but it is no cleaner than regular mineral oil. 98% of BMW drivers never abuse their vehicles hard enough to need synthetic. Plus up until now...all BMW are normally aspirated and all non M models never redlines anywhere near 7000rpm like most Hondas or other japanese makes. So synthetic is just a marketing tool...a very powerful one.
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Originally Posted by Gaaaar
Well regardless of whether infiniti or bmw is more reliable, it doesn't really matter. I guess all im trying to say is when ppl knock on bmw its becoming increasing common that they talk about bmw's reliability issues. And i guess to be fair, im just trying to defend something that is just absolutely untrue. Bmw's reliability is not as bad as what ppl say it is, alot of other brands has much worse reliability and even when there are problems with bmw its mostly 7 series and 5 series. The 3 series is a pretty reliable car, thats why they always get such rave reviews, its still the benchmark and its not without reason. And since we are only comparing the g35 to the 3 series, i can honestly say after having experience with both cars that i dont think the 3 series is any less reliable than the g35, i wouldn't say its more reliable but its definitely not less reliable. Im just trying to give a honest opinion.
Nowadays, just about any manufacturor is reliable. You never hear of engine or tranny blowing up anymore. But you hear alot of electronics woes and other non mechanical problems.
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Shane, Thank you for scanning the article. I actually picked up the magazine yesterday, and while reading it realized that the G they tested has the exact same plates as the car I saw at the Wheatleigh (which makes sense since the car they tested only had 200 miles on the odometer). The Infiniti rep I spoke with there said all the cars were pre-production. I'm no journalist, but shouldn't that type of information be disclosed in the article. In the end I don't know if it makes a bit of difference, but I did find it odd. The other thing the article mentioned was the car was a G35S. Another inconsistency, as the badge on the tested car did not have an "S". Anyways - just my 2 cents...
Originally Posted by Gaaaar
Actually BMW has free maintenance, during warranty. Come to think of it, infiniti is actually more expensive since bmw is free.
Originally Posted by vt_maverick
For what its worth, my observation has been that BMW problems, when they do occur, are significantly more costly than those for Infiniti. Why do you think they had to start including all scheduled maintenance for the term of the warranty? I had a friend who had one and it typically cost her the better part of $600-700 at each scheduled maintenance.
Last edited by vt_maverick; Aug 25, 2006 at 08:03 AM.
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Originally Posted by THE RICE MASTER
Didn't CAR and Drivers 330 developed major reliability issues during their shootout where the 330 was victorious over the IS350 and all othe vehicles in the test? C/D had to use performance numbers from another they 330 tested many months before since the one BMW sent them for the shootout died early on and couldn't produce any test results. No other vehicle in the shootout had problems...only the BMW. But it won the test anyway despite being pretty much the worse or most mediocre performer.
Nowadays, just about any manufacturor is reliable. You never hear of engine or tranny blowing up anymore. But you hear alot of electronics woes and other non mechanical problems.
Nowadays, just about any manufacturor is reliable. You never hear of engine or tranny blowing up anymore. But you hear alot of electronics woes and other non mechanical problems.
http://www.caranddriver.com/comparis...-bmw-330i.html
Excerpt from said link:
BMWs win many of our comparison tests for the same reason marathoners prefer running shoes to mukluks. They just work better for the task at hand.
Our 330i labored hard to lose. The electrical ticks began shortly after it was delivered. The new 3-series has a push-button start. Ours would work only after several exasperated pushes and fiddling with the key. Why, we wondered in the free moments this created, must you even insert the "key" into the dash when many push-button systems, including the IS350's, allow the radio-transmitting key fob to roam free?
Then the ABS lamp lit. We tried to execute one stop on our high-desert test road and nearly executed a 360 spin at 70 mph instead (thus, our braking number is from a previous test). Shortly thereafter several airbag-malfunction warnings lit up. Maybe it was just a coincidence.
Even with its dash ablaze in emergency alerts, the 330i wormed its way into our hearts. The 3-series is the BMW franchise, accounting for 60 percent of the company's sales. No wonder it feels the least altered, the least Bangle-ized, by its model changeover. The core BMW traits are all there: slot-car steering response, implacable structural rigidity, sublime balance. See your path through a corner, and the BMW nails it with a wrist flick. It doesn't clomp, it doesn't float, its throttle doesn't surge or cause the driveline to buck. It doesn't force you to wrestle with mushy controls or negotiate with bionic brains. It just makes every road your personal pavement playpen.
It helps that this 330i was ordered just right, meaning with a six-speed manual and without the wonky active steering and the atrocious iDrive. Both are warts on the options sheet to be avoided at all costs. Buy an aftermarket navigation system if such things matter to you. The new 3's interior, although beautifully tailored with wood accents and leather sport seats, didn't satisfy all. The radio display is hard to read and harder to operate, the A/C struggled in the heat, and the dash is a meniscus that curves coldly away from you. It's easy to feel like just a cog in the machine.
But, oh, what a machine!
Our 330i labored hard to lose. The electrical ticks began shortly after it was delivered. The new 3-series has a push-button start. Ours would work only after several exasperated pushes and fiddling with the key. Why, we wondered in the free moments this created, must you even insert the "key" into the dash when many push-button systems, including the IS350's, allow the radio-transmitting key fob to roam free?
Then the ABS lamp lit. We tried to execute one stop on our high-desert test road and nearly executed a 360 spin at 70 mph instead (thus, our braking number is from a previous test). Shortly thereafter several airbag-malfunction warnings lit up. Maybe it was just a coincidence.
Even with its dash ablaze in emergency alerts, the 330i wormed its way into our hearts. The 3-series is the BMW franchise, accounting for 60 percent of the company's sales. No wonder it feels the least altered, the least Bangle-ized, by its model changeover. The core BMW traits are all there: slot-car steering response, implacable structural rigidity, sublime balance. See your path through a corner, and the BMW nails it with a wrist flick. It doesn't clomp, it doesn't float, its throttle doesn't surge or cause the driveline to buck. It doesn't force you to wrestle with mushy controls or negotiate with bionic brains. It just makes every road your personal pavement playpen.
It helps that this 330i was ordered just right, meaning with a six-speed manual and without the wonky active steering and the atrocious iDrive. Both are warts on the options sheet to be avoided at all costs. Buy an aftermarket navigation system if such things matter to you. The new 3's interior, although beautifully tailored with wood accents and leather sport seats, didn't satisfy all. The radio display is hard to read and harder to operate, the A/C struggled in the heat, and the dash is a meniscus that curves coldly away from you. It's easy to feel like just a cog in the machine.
But, oh, what a machine!
^ Other than massive electrical problems, a less than desirable interior, two options that should be "avoided at all costs," and an inadequate A/C, the BMW just can't be beat. Can't wait until my subscription runs out...
Other than massive electrical problems, a less than desirable interior, two options that should be "avoided at all costs," and an inadequate A/C, the BMW just can't be beat. Can't wait until my subscription runs out...
Normally I don't do this, but jesus....
Oh ya? A Ferrari or Porsche, huh? Well I guess I'll go grab an F430 then. They're priced right around what a 330i costs, right? Maybe I'll grab a GT3 while I'm at it, I hear those are fun. Even reliastically in those lines you might get a boxster or a cayman (non s) for the same price as a loaded 335i (not 330i). I don't think Porsche or Ferrari really enter into the equation here. If you're talking about M's and such...well that's a different story all together. This thread is about the 3-series versus the G.
That's because you don't *need* to bring a car in every 3k. Clearly you know something about oil changes, so I assume you know that it's virtually contaminant free at 3k in modern engines, even non-synthetic. I own both a BMW and an Infiniti; in that time I've had 61k km worth of oil changes in the G (12), I've had 4 in 41k km on the BMW. The G cost me $560 up front for lifetime changes (it's $101 otherwise) (and yes they use synthetic), the BMW obviously cost me nothing. I also did the 45, 60, 75. 90k service on the G ($189 I think ) as well as the major service @ 75k (~$480 total?) and have replaced my pads and rotors to aftermarket (they needed replacing at 80k) ~$800. All in all I've spent about $2500 in two years or 61k km on the G and I've spend $0 on the BMW. Not trying to defend the bimmer here, just pointing out that free maintenance actually saves you some money. I will admit I have to replace the brakes on my BMW and it will cost ~$800. Still, $2500 vs $800.
To expound on the "Infiniti's are thousands cheaper" another thing I rarely see mentioned here is the fact that BMW's have superior resale by at least a few percent (more like 5%) and have a significantly higher residual on leases. They also tend to have similar money factors. In fact if you price out the *current* G coupe versus an '07 335i coupe you'll see the 335i msrps less than 2k more, loaded it's about 6k more. If you keep the car over a 3 or 4 year lease you more than make that money up in residual value and maintenance.
I love my G, I will likely own more Infiniti's (two already now), but some of the stuff on this board is worse than e90 post.
Originally Posted by THE RICE MASTER
NO homey...INFINITI cost thousands less. But more importantly, BMW already included the cost of the free maintaninance into the price of the vehicle. They just know how to fool people into thinking folks are getting their basic maintainnance for free. They've already successfully fooled a ton of people into thinking they built the ultimate driving machine when we all know a Ferrari or Porsche and a bunch of other make makes more enjoyable vehicle to drive than any BMW.
If you look closer at the manual...BMWs recommended oil change don't come until about 11,000 mile, the computer will let you know when to bring it in. You cannot bring it in every 3000 mile just cuz the oil change is free. If you leased a BMW, you're limited to roughly 15K mile a year. That means in 3 yrs time, you're only getting 3-4 oil changed plus a coolant and maybe tranny fluid change depending on your mileage. Spark plugs are at least 60-100K, so they don't even need changing during the waranty period. The most it'll cost BMW in 3 yrs is probably $200 or less. But what they gain in consumer confidence into buying their vehicle amounts to millions.
To expound on the "Infiniti's are thousands cheaper" another thing I rarely see mentioned here is the fact that BMW's have superior resale by at least a few percent (more like 5%) and have a significantly higher residual on leases. They also tend to have similar money factors. In fact if you price out the *current* G coupe versus an '07 335i coupe you'll see the 335i msrps less than 2k more, loaded it's about 6k more. If you keep the car over a 3 or 4 year lease you more than make that money up in residual value and maintenance.
I love my G, I will likely own more Infiniti's (two already now), but some of the stuff on this board is worse than e90 post.
Last edited by Picus; Aug 25, 2006 at 11:46 AM.
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In the U.S., the BMW maintenance is for the first 50,000 miles. For the G35, this is my estimate of maintenance costs the first 50,000 miles:
7,500: $100
15,000: $200
22,500: $100
30,000: $300
37,500: $100
45,000: $300
Total: $1100
If you change oil every 3,750 miles, you'd have to add about $360 to the above. Of course, service costs are variable depending on your area and dealer competition.
7,500: $100
15,000: $200
22,500: $100
30,000: $300
37,500: $100
45,000: $300
Total: $1100
If you change oil every 3,750 miles, you'd have to add about $360 to the above. Of course, service costs are variable depending on your area and dealer competition.
Last edited by jrock65; Aug 25, 2006 at 12:43 PM.
Thanks for the article. I wish I had read the larger version before I squinted the original one.
I cant believe there is still no under hood shot!
Or for that matter any good mechanical pictures. I want to see the brake diffrences since they are going back to 1 piston calipers.
I cant believe there is still no under hood shot!
Or for that matter any good mechanical pictures. I want to see the brake diffrences since they are going back to 1 piston calipers.
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From: Rothesay, New Brunswick, Canada
Originally Posted by johnadlertech
Thanks for the article. I wish I had read the larger version before I squinted the original one.
I cant believe there is still no under hood shot!
Or for that matter any good mechanical pictures. I want to see the brake diffrences since they are going back to 1 piston calipers.
I cant believe there is still no under hood shot!
Or for that matter any good mechanical pictures. I want to see the brake diffrences since they are going back to 1 piston calipers.
https://g35driver.com/forums/g35-sedan-v36-2007-08/112409-pictures-new-g35-vq35hr-engine-bay.html