Posted this in g37 forums and will re-post here:

This is not a question about snow etc. but rather about handling feel.

Note this review in "The Truth About Cars" of the 35x (http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/200...x-awd-review/).

It ain't pretty. I now have an fx45 so all I have been used to over the last three years is the awd system from Infiniti.

In the REAL world can any one comment on sterring feel, road connectedness etc. between g rwd and g x? The rwd gets such rave reviews but the x reviews are not as plentiful or as involved. I would like awd but will not compromise on handling feel and feedback so would be will to buy rwd if necessary.

Your feedback will be much appreciated.

 

Not sure what you're looking for, but I have an X so I'll chime in.
The X is not going to be as nimble as the RWD, since it has a little extra weight to deal with.
With that being said, my X is one of the best handling cars I have ever owned.

I suggest a test drive of both and decide for yourself.
Worry about what is said in reviews and you'll be making your decision based solely on what other people think.

And BTW, the X is phenomenal in the snow.

 

Yeah, and have you looked at the maintenance schedule and costs on a new or aging BMW??????

 

^ Posting in the wrong thread perhaps?

 

I would have to say that AWD feels more stable, but has much more understeer than RWD, so it won't handle as well. I'm sure the added weight wouldn't be too good on response either. AWD has the added traction advantage in wet, dirt or snow, but for everyday driving on dry pavement, RWD will be able to make emergency maneuvers much better than AWD or FWD.

 

Here's another opinion for what it's worth.

The drive system shouldn't have any impact on steering feel or feeling connected to the road. Those things are a combination of the steering rack, suspension geometry, and chassis design. Since both G cars are identical (I think) in these regards, they should feel identical.

However there is a huge difference between RWD & AWD. If you're asking this question and coming from an AWD SUV, I'm guessing you've never tried steering with your right foot. This "feature" of RWD allows a car to rotate and turn much more sharply than an AWD counterpart. I'll try not to get too technical.

I drive an S2000 every day. One of the reasons I love the car is that I have three ways to guide the car through a turn.
1.) Turn the wheels. An AWD car can do this.
2.) Set a line and then lift on the throttle to induce trailing throttle oversteer when the weight transfers to the outside front tire. An AWD car can do this too.
3.) Set a line and then hammer the throttle to induce oversteer while controlling the rotation of the car by balancing throttle and counter steering. An AWD car makes it much much harder to do this. Unless you're a professional rally driver I'm gonna say forget it.

This effect is magnified in the S2000 by a low polar moment of inertia due to a mid-engine design that centers the mass of the car between the front and rear axles very close to the ground. There's very little resistance to torsional forces. The sucker will rotate like a top. It will also bite a novice in the a$$ before you know what hit you. This is what some people call a twitchy car. I call it a fun car.

A very rare thing in a sedan, the G35 is also a mid-engine design of sorts. Infiniti calls it a Front-Midship design. The engine is located behind the front axle for a relatively low polar moment of inertia as far as sedans go. This makes for a nicely twitchy/fun sedan. All you need to go with that is enough power to overcome the traction of the rear tires and a reasonably quick steering gear to keep things under control. Check and check. Sports sedan!

Now when you go adding AWD to the damned thing, you spoil everything. All that inherent design goodness is wasted as the car's traction brain panics when the rear starts to lose grip and sends all of your precious torque forward where the wheels aren't slipping. Drat! Polar moment wasted!

Result? You will track effortlessly and smoothly through the turn without drama. But will you be faster? Turn sharper? Not necessarily. In the hands of a skilled driver, a RWD car can brake deeper into a sharp corner and rotate faster with more control. But it takes work. And it is more risky.

Unless you drive on the edge, I'm not certain you'd notice the difference on public roads in daily driving. But, on a track, at the edge, I'll take RWD thank you.

Hope that helps.

 

Let's also remember that the AWD G35x is only AWD up to 12 mph, where it then becomes a RWD car unless additional traction is needed (wheel slip)
I still believe that the major difference in handling for this particular comparison is weight.
The AWD my be a tad quicker off the line, but the RWD will be better in the high speed turns.

The weather patterns and road conditions that I see throughout the year caused me to choose the AWD, even though I strongly considered the G35s for quite some time before making a final decision.
My car feels a little heavy when going into a corner or exit ramp at very high speeds, but the only time I have found the car's limit was due to lousy tires and had nothing to do with the car's awd system.
With my new wheels and tires, I'll go as far as saying that this car handles as well as or better than other RWD cars on the road today.
Certainly better than the POS Charger I rented 6 months ago.

I have not once felt sorry for my decision.... The X has been great.

 

Yeah but...... when rear wheel slip is what you're after, along comes the traction nanny to steal your torque toys.....at any speed. Sure it will back off under normal circumstances but upon sensing violent rear wheel traction loss it will jump in to "maintain control" and spoil the fun. Just when you don't want it. It won't care whether you're going more than 12 MPH. If you're simply putting along, who cares whether it's in RWD or AWD except for maybe some additional frictional losses in the drivetrain?

At any rate, if we buy a G35, and I think we will, it will be a G35X as a daily driver for my wife. I won't give the RWD a second thought. I got the S for that.

 

This is very true and I may reconsider my decision as soon as I desire a little more drifting on onramps during my daily commute.

 

I've taken my car in 3 times to the dealership and each time I've gotten an X as a rental. I've noticed a significant difference in the dynamics of the X vs. my car. The tires are noticeably splashier. Road feedback does not transfer nearly as well through the tires which is a good thing if you're just a cruiser. I drive more spirited though and as of yesterday, now autocross it, so I much prefer the sport tires. The suspension is also mushier. More body roll is evident but it's still far from a loose feel.

Aggressive cornering is more confidence inspiring in the X as you can give it more throttle without the fear of the snap oversteer.

This is all in street driving. On the autocross course I wouldn't want anything but RWD. Being a big car, it would be very difficult to get around tight pivot cones without the ability to induce throttle oversteer...however in the course I ran yesterday, it would have been nice to have the traction of AWD for the first part of the course. The lot was so small I was forced to leave it in first. The only other cars I've autocrossed were WRX's and STI's and I'd grown accustomed to being able to use the pedal like and on - off light switch and not suffer traction loss as a result. It was difficult and I don't think I learned to control my on-off gas pedal instincts and I ended up running slow times as I was compensating for oversteer after every turn. I must have looked like some fanboy drifter.

All in all you should ask yourself this: Are you ever going to drive it in snow or any other conditions in which you wouldn't feel confident in your abilities to manuever a RWD car? If so, get an X. If not...there's no reason not to get RWD.

 

Very well said.
The OEM Goodyears are absolute crap and were the major cause of that numb feeling. Dropping down to a 40 sidewall helped a lot.
I have a little less splashy feel now with the new tire setup (Falken FK452s) and I'm on the fence for a strut bar now as well.
It won't be a total cure for what ails the X, but it's a step in the right direction.
This is my daily driver and I have 2 little pieces of precious cargo in the back seats every single day.
When I'm by myself, it becomes my toy.
I think it does a good job of balancing between fun and safe driving responsibility.

 

What a great forum. First time on and I get outstanding answers. You G guys know your cars and the engineering behind them.

This is exactly what I was looking for. My sum of your comments leads me much stronger to the rwd. I live in Philly but with good snow tires- I mean KILLER snows- I will make it. My commute is to S Jersey which is very flat, the only hills are ramps so I think x for me is overkill. Granted if I went to the Poconos or drove to Pgh. but I can always rent a car for those infrequent occaisions.

Come to think of it I have had two fX 45 over the last 5 years and 99% of the time the awd was unnecessary.

Thanks again!

 

I really, really, REALLY think strut bars would help loads in the handling department. Through the slalom I was able to detect quite a bit of instability and chassis flex on high speed cornering. Linear springs or coilovers, sway bars, strut tower brace and perhaps a lower tie brace would, I would suspect, dramatically change the way the car scoots around.

 

i think at this power level, unless you really are in snow or ice a lot...the rwd drive is more than capable to perform and be predictable.

now come take a ride in a c6 z06, and i'll show what edgy and twitchy means. that '06 car of mine is just downright spooky at times. you can get pointed in the wrong direction in a hurry....even straight line hard shifting, much less rolling into throttle out of a corner. smoothness becomes very paramount

 

As someone who lives in a snowy area, and has a steep hill in front of my house that ices up, RWD vehicles are just impractical.

As far as pushing through corners... Sorry... Nothing beats hitting a sweeper at 80 mph, leaning the bike over and having your knee puck scrape across the ground.

I used to love sliding around in my car growing up, but on the track? I love my sport bike so much more.

The problem you have with these type of reviews is they are very general, focus on certain aspects, and for a large portion of drivers, they are just not relevant.