Intake & Exhaust Questions and info regarding various aftermatket exhaust systems for the G35 (Headers,Y-Pipes, and Cat-Back Systems)

Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

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Old 05-19-2004, 02:12 PM
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Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

Let me start out by saying I have no conclusive proof of my observations at this point, and they are just that, observations.

After a seemless install (~30 minutes) I was excited to drive the car. I did the gas pedal ECU reset, let it idle for about 45 seconds and calmly entered the residential area.

Test Note: I have the z-tube installed as well, any comparisons to the stock system reflect stock airbox + z tube.

For about 5 minutes I let the car warm up and I was pleased with the way the car ran. In fact it seemed to be quieter then the stock box. It actually felt a tad smoother as well. At this point I felt confident I had made a good decision.

Then, I opened her up a bit and was greeted with a pleasant sound from the engine. It was less muffled then the stock system, but still decent for responsible adult driving (e.g. not too obtrusive).

Finally the time had come to let her rip. I did so and was a little disappointed in the power below 4000 RPM. It felt like I had lost substantial power between 2000-4000 RPM.

After 4000 RPM I was met with a not so unfamiliar intake sound. It reminded me of when I was in high school and had an Integra GSR. If I were to close my eyes I would've swore i was driving some obnoxious 4 cylinder with an intake. From what I had read people had commented the intake sounded good. For me it's a tad more high pitched and dare I say 'ricey'.

I then found a gentleman in a mini-van looking at me like I was an a$$hole. I then knew this mod is going to attract a lot of negative attention.

To add insult to injury, the power delivery was less then expected as well. As previously mentioned the low end seemed to suffer. However, about 4500 RPM there does seem to be more power (faster reving).

As I pulled out of a driveway near my work I let the car rip as I usualy do, and I barely broke traction on a redline 1-2 shift. I've done this exact same 1-2 shift on this same street 5+ times only to be met with a loud bark from the rear tires.

Again, I have no conclusive proof of my discoveries. I did reset the ECU, so i will leave it on for another week and see if it 'comes to live', but I doubt it will.

I really prefer the way it sounded stock. It was a bit muffled but still had a lot of grunt. Stock it reminds me of an E36 M3, now it reminds me of a Prelude with intake.

Below 2000 RPM it seems to be very tame, sounds nice (better then stock), but other then that I think the product returns negative results both in power delivery and sound.

Flame me all you want, I'll post a one week wrap up.

PS - To disclaim my credit, I've owned various cars and have at least 10 different intake setups on various cars (as well as other mods). I've helped develop intakes before for various cars. I've installed mods that have had proven negative results and have installed a plethora of mods that have helped. I feel as qualified as anyone to make a judgement on a mod without conclusive evidence.

My final conclusion is:
Perhaps on 0-60 or 1/4 mile the Stillen intake will yield faster times (since you spend most of your time racing in the 4500+ range). Even on the dyno the 'PEAK' power is probably higher. However, the entire area under the curve might possibly be lower with this mod (meaning the average horsepower gained over the entire spectrum is in the negatives). For everyday driving the car feels less powerful because I rarely go over 5K RPM anyways. From a sound a perception stand point I prefer the way the stock system sounds.

Look for my 1 week wrap up as I've only driven it about 5 miles so far.

04 6MT Sedan - Z Tube, 04 Z Suspension
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 02:51 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

I've read that the ECM takes a long time to adjust so I'm holding faith in that, although with my experience in various cars and their ECU's I've not typically seen this behavior (especially after a reset).

Thanks for the post. I'll read it now and post any comments about it here afterwards.

04 6MT Sedan - Z Tube, 04 Z Suspension
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 02:56 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

stick with the K&N drop in.

G35s6mt/TSecu/350Z Springs&Struts/K&Nfilter+Z-tube/StillenDualExhaust /6WireGroundKit/KinetixHighFlow
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 03:10 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

1) The ECU adjusts to air flow in seconds.

2) I'm beginning to agree with Gord, Nutty, Doug Crawford, and a few others (Dave O maybe?) that place more faith in the stock airbox over the JWT or Stillen box. While it may eeek out a few ponies at red line, it's just not worth the cost and apparent loss at the low end.

2004.5 Coupe/5AT/Ivory/Everything but chin spoiler/Z Tube-Popcharger/Crawford V5 Plenum on the way
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 03:27 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

Well from what I've read DaveO appears to think the ECM takes one week to adjust to open-loop driving. I think everything is speculation at this point, there's no way without tapping into the ECU to know what's going on.

In the past I've always felt that adjustments are made within fractions of a second, especially after an ECU reset.

With that in mind, I may be one to add to the supporters of the stock box system.

I'm interested in gains that are felt everyday since I don't race at tracks EVER. Total power under the curve is what's important to me; again like comparing PMPO to RMS.

04 6MT Sedan - Z Tube, 04 Z Suspension
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:08 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

Pardon my ignorance in all things Japanese, but my experience to date has solely been with domestics.
That said, every OBDII ECU I've ever seen has both short-term and long-term fuel trim tables. Combined with the open-loop and limp modes, there are at least four major reference tables at which to look. (not including those cross-referenced for load, tps, iat, et cetera)
Short trim adjusts instantly for all intents and purposes.
Long term takes some driving.....I don't know how long on our cars.
Open loop is usually a fixed table that gets blended with the long term fuel trim over time.
Limp never gets changed.

It would stand to reason that there would be changes over time to the long term trim. How much remains to be seen.



'04 G35X Graphite/graphite, NAV, wood, premium
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 04:23 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

Thanks for the insight, that's informative info for me.

Albeit that may and most likely is true, I've yet to see in any car any noticeable difference over a period of time.

Like I said, I'll give a 1week wrap-up of the product by then maybe it'll kick into gear.

04 6MT Sedan - Z Tube, 04 Z Suspension
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 05:01 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

In my personal experience, I have noticed that my stock ecu and my technosquare upgrade take a while to adapt depending on how I drive. Justin at everythingg35 seems to think the same thing. Here is the link where Justin comments on this.

Anthony

2003.5 Black 5AT Sedan
z-tube/ jwt popcharger/crawford plenum/crawford cats/
stillen exhaust/grounding kit/
technosquare ecu /350z thermostat/double din
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 05:12 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

Yeah, although the MAF will instantly measure the amount of air coming in and adjust fuel delivery accordingly, I think there are some longer term maps that I've seen reference to. The A/F maps, right? I'm still not clear on how they come into play though. Doug Crawford was telling me he thinks there are 8 or so, but not as many as are available on the Z. When T/S gets done designing the ECU flash for the 2004 I'm going to question them extensively on this, it's been bugging me for awhile and I haven't heard a great comprehensive and definitive answer

2004.5 Coupe/5AT/Ivory/Everything but chin spoiler/Z Tube-Popcharger/Crawford V5 Plenum on the way
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 05:16 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

same with nismo...lowend lost power. and high end sounds great, i will drop in exhust to make the low end sound better... maybe going for borla

 
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Old 05-19-2004, 05:35 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

Well I just drove it again to pick up some paperwork, again only barely breaking traction. I do believe it revs faster but DAMN with the windows down it's obnoxiously loud.

04 6MT Sedan - Z Tube, 04 Z Suspension
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 06:22 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

Everyone knows this, but you seem to ignore the fact that Nissan ECUs especially all the new ones take up to 2 weeks depending how much you drive to learn. These are slow learning ecus. After I reset my ecu, my car didn't feel alive for another couple of days which was 300-400 miles later. Your car has to learn.

2004 Infiniti G35S, 6MT, Premium, Sport, DP
Mods: JDM Clears, 20% tint, Z-tube, K&N Drop In
Track: 14.32 at 97.6 mph 2.196 60ft (1900 miles bone stock, with bogging)
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 06:25 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

Thanks for the highly scientific reply Russ.

I remember you telling me once that right after you reset your ECU it was AMAZINGLY faster.

Also, you attempted to reset your ECU right before you went to the track. This would conclude that you were of the mind set that a brand new reset is fastest.

04 6MT Sedan - Z Tube, 04 Z Suspension
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 06:28 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

It's THIS above kind of continual speculation that makes it hard to tell.

Russ would you like to buy my Stillen intake?

04 6MT Sedan - Z Tube, 04 Z Suspension
 
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Old 05-19-2004, 06:33 PM
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Re: Disappointed in Stillen intake performance

disconnect your batter overnight or even better, for 24 hours. then drive it. there should be a signifigant difference. SIGNIFIGANT.

G35s6mt/TSecu/350Z Springs&Struts/K&Nfilter+Z-tube/StillenDualExhaust /6WireGroundKit/KinetixHighFlow
 


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