FYI, I'll post however I want, whether you like it or not. If you don't like it, simply add me to your "ignore list". Lord knows you wouldn't be the first. For the record, I'll say what ever I feel like saying, and I don't care as to how I'm "perceived" over the stupid computer. Like it, hate it, whatever; I really don't care. My intentions are genuine and I really care about finding out what works and what doesn't. I'll sleep the same regardless how one, two or 10 of you think. The 100+ people who are on this forum and have met me in person will like me the same regardless of how a few of my posts are written. It's just my opinion combined with a dumb computer wrapped with your interpretation of what you "think" I'm trying to convey. There's more error here than in a dumb dyno FOR THE LOVE OF GOD! Don't get too wrapped up in "my opinions" as they're just the way I think/feel at any given time. Remember, I NEVER SAID THE SPACER DID NOT WORK!
I just said "there is no "proof" that the just by increasing the volume "balances the flow"." I STILL HAVE NOT SEEN THE PROOF!
This is what started this thread in a tail spin. From this comment forward, I was attacked and struck back. Like it or not it is the truth. You have no clue as to how many PM's and AIM's I've received telling me not to back down from this thread. I bet less than 10% of the people who have contacted me in supprot have posted in this thread. More people have supported me in private than have attacked me in public. This says VOLUMES to me.

Glad you're enjoying your wheels and your spacer. Now... I'm off to try to plan the next CFL dyno day. Anyone want to donate a 1/4" spacer for the testing??? I'd really like to keep this as impartial as possible.

 

Neff, you need a 1/2" if you're doing a direct comparison with a Crawford plenum.

 

I have yet to see anyone explain or even suggest how right angles could provide for optimal flow and pressure in the Crawford as some seem to believe. The whole idea of using right angles seemed unusual to several engineers that I presented with the scenario, and they commented that it definitely looks like a sub-optimal design.

Neff, where is your proof of this, is it just because "Doug said so"

 

The spacer works.
'Neff said, oops, I mean, 'nuff said.

 

Copbait,

I think you strike a nerve amongst the Crawford Klan. Doug just called me on my cell and had a nice chat w/ me. Apparently he's been directed to this thread by other people (not me I promise) and he has generously offered to call you out!

That's right. Tomorrow morning he will send me the flow bench data from 2 different tests. The first test is where they ran the 100% stock setup. This test has the stock plenum and the stock lower manifold. I'm told that this test shows the "near 30% pressure drop from the rear to front lower manifold chambers".

Then he'll send the latest flow bench tests that show the new cast plenum "with the right angles" and a ZERO PERCENT pressure drop from the rear to front lower manifold chambers".

Doug went on to tell me how they had to raise the cast version of his plenum ONE INCH before they could equalize the pressure drop between the back and front manifold chambers. They did testing with different height plenums (including a half inch solution which did not equalize the air flow) and the production version was the best flowing solution he's ever sold!

I no longer will be relying on "here say" but I'll post the results for all to se right here in this thread. Maybe Tony will rethink this post…

Well Tony, I’ll show you all of Doug’s hard work and testing that he used to develop his current plenum. The ball’s in your court. In this thread you mentioned how easily dynos can be manipulated, so you must realize how important it is for you to now share your own data with us so we’ll know that you are not “making up” your own claims of “equalized air flow” from front to rear cylinders with the spacer. Even you must admit that the ¼ inch the 3/8 inch and ½ inch spacer cannot all equalize air flow, right? It’s not possible!

Now I realize that my previous tone and the way I “hammered” my side of the argument came across in a negative way.

PLEASE DON’T TAKE THIS MESSAGE THE SAME WAY! I’ve been called out by Copbait and I’m answering the call.

If you don’t like the style of the post please filter out the "style" and focus on the content.

Talk to you again in the morning…

 

[QUOTE=copbait]I have yet to see anyone explain or even suggest how right angles could provide for optimal flow and pressure in the Crawford as some seem to believe. The whole idea of using right angles seemed unusual to several engineers that I presented with the scenario, and they commented that it definitely looks like a sub-optimal design.

Are you talking process flow or are you talking flow? Flow is not what is going on here. Volume in the intake is what is making the change. Right angles? Do you mean enshrouding the runners? This whole deal here with the spacer and the Crawford plenum could just be a band aid to what the real problem is. Maybe they screwed up when they built the intake (plenum). Maybe they wanted low end drivability and torque. I myself would love to do a dyno before and after on both Plenums. This I can do. I will be willing to pay for a spacer of choice and ship it to the Neffster If he wants. I will be willing to help pay for the dyno tests (not all of it) I will be willing to pay for a great dinner for both Hydrazine and Neffster.
Why? I want what we all want from ower cars,the best. Dennis
PS Waiting for reply's

 

And Doug's ***** seem to be in your mouth.

Dude, just give it a rest. Do you actually think with all the ranting and raving that you're doing about "angles" and "flowing" is helping Doug's business?

If I was Doug, I'd cut your "sponsorship" off and tell you to shut the fudge up.

Both products make power, isn't that the whole point of these mods?
One just happens to be cheaper than the other...

If this is the case, are you just typing for the sake of typing?
Is work that slow for you?

 

[QUOTE=Dizz]And Doug's ***** seem to be in your mouth.

Dude, just give it a rest.

You are way out of line. Quote" My mommy told me if you have nothing nice to say. You should not say it. Do you think that was a liitle nasty?
Better yet do you know Doug?

 

Is it proper for a mod to act as the voice of a vendor? Especially in a thread like this?

 

I'm just asking for the same proof that you are asking for, I hardly see that as anything but fair game

Maybe they had to raise up their plenum so much because of the sharper angles. Maybe just sticking with the shape of the stock unit but raising it slightly you can achieve virtually the same gains. These ideas have been supported so far by the dyno results coming in.

Just the fact that they posted so many contradictions in their "$29 Crawford Spacer" thread on My350, first claiming NO GAINS and SNAKE OIL, then later they change their mind entirely and admit a spacer will provide gains but not as much as their full Plenum upper of course. This leads me to believe they never really spent much time on a spacer idea at all, except for maybe a stack of gaskets, and really have no idea how effective they are.

 

The best way to understand this thread is to go back and re read it. Nobody here has done anything wrong but ask for facts. I have read many post's from the Neffster over the last year and feel he has ----------Compassion"------- about this car and that's just it. And for me IM sick of buying things that do not work. It looks like the spacer works. Great" Lets get down to the facts and move on.

 

Sometimes ppl do tend to over-analyze things...ya' think? The bottom line is both mods increase HP/torque; how does each one accomplish this and which one has greater gains? Who really cares? Yes, it would seem the best mods for our cars are ones which much time is devoted to R&D (e.g. - Gordgee, Tony, etc.)...this is why we should just say "thank you" (which we also do this by buying their stuff of course!!! ) to guys like Doug @ Crawford and Tony @ Motordyne (and Gordgee for his GG System). They have the interest in, the knowledge, and the determination to to improve our cars; it's great that they take the time to figure out ways to do so.

I don't think most of us need to get into the middle of a pissing contest or between two 'competitors' -- these are 2 different mods which take 2 different approaches to a similar problem. Both make improvements to the stock setup; one happens to be more than double the price of the other and may or may not have better HP/torque gains. Which one is the most efficient solution and which one is better for you? I think that all depends on what's important to you and which one you perceive to be a better 'bang for your buck.'

With all that said, I've read many threads and posts on both plenum mods -- the Crawford plenum and now, the MD Plenum Spacer. Personally, I am hesistant to change out my car's plenum; it's a "big hunk of metal" - a very important piece of the engine and it just doesn't sit right with me to replace it (even if its design is inheritantly flawed). Not to mention, it's rather expensive. However, adding a 3/8" plenum spacer for $225 to the stock plenum, which by all accounts thus far seems to add noticeable HP and torque gains, I think it may be a worthwhile and "safer" mod. So I ordered the 3/8" MD Plenum Spacer and I'm expecting it this week. I have no interest in dyno'ing my car just to see how much more HP the 3/8" plenum spacer adds; just as long as I can feel and possibly hear a difference, I will be happy. Some may be in the same camp with me while others "must know" exactly "if, why, how, and just how much." Personally, I don't care about the minute details of how & why it works and eactly how much it works; I just want to be assured it works and I'm not wasting my $$...period! From the several dyno's done (however they were done) and many testimonials posted, it appears that it works and would be a nice mod for the money, adding some extra HP and torque...provided it doesn't blow up my engine, of course.

 

[QUOTE=GEE PASTA]Sorry about that Utah.
I usually keep the crass remarks in the regional section.

Sorry Neff, I didn't mean to insinuate that either you or Doug are homosexual.
Mondays always bring the best out of me, well rough Mondays anyway.

You're a good guy and you took the time to drop some good g35 knowledge on me.

You told me:
V5 plenum + HF/cats=20hp

But I went the more inexpensive route:
MD 1/2" spacer + resonated TP's= Y'all know after this Sat.

It's a free country homie, I hope you find what you're asking for.
You deserve it got damn it!...
You're an American.

 

You didn't answer the mans question...so I will repeat it for you.
Is it proper for a mod to act as the voice of a vendor? Especially in a thread like this?

A good question that needs an answer, I think.