Hi everyone,
I try to answer PM, posts and emails as quickly as possible but I work two jobs (Boeing & Motordyne) and commute 3-5 hours a day so I can’t always respond immediately.

Neffster,
I never slanted or lied about anything. That’s what I remembered from the thread and I’ve slept since then.
https://g35driver.com/forums/showthr...ichip+neffster
After going back to the original thread, I found this is what you actually wrote "I would think if this product really worked you would send me a piggyback in the mail tomorrow for almost nothing..." Then somebody else commented about you not getting the "freebie". So that is what I generally recalled from it. Not exact but pretty darn close if you ask me.

If you like to see the real data that’s great. So do I and 98% of everyone here. I am skeptical of many vendors’ claims too but I won’t be releasing the plenum flow rates and pressure drop characteristics. Even if I did, my guess is you still wouldn’t be satisfied. The data would be simple trivia for anybody but another vendor or design engineer. They could utilize it. So I consider it proprietary and see no reason to make it available to other vendors. Other vendors can do their own homework.

I know for a fact that the spacers work very good despite any negative claims made by the anti plenum spacer guys. I’ve dyno’ed my Sedan with them multiple times and have only seen the HP and TQ curves go up. Even some of the plots I posted a while back were best baseline against an average spacer pull. If it is of any significance, the lowest dyno gain (area under the curve) I have ever seen on the plenum spacers were on my own car.
My cars dyno’s aren’t independent but they are among the most scientifically controlled. This is how I came up with the 5-10 HP advertised rating. (And just between you and me, the advertised numbers are intentionally underrated.) I would rather be known for under rating HP numbers rather than inflating them.

(Alberts) E_K’s CV5 comparison against the ¼” spacer testing was also a very well controlled test. Unfortunately it could not be tested against baseline because of threading issues. If you doubt the authenticity, validity or sincerity of the comparison… then I don’t know what else to say. Another will be performed soon enough.

And why should anybody care about which vendors hypothetical conjecture sounds better? All that really matters is the dyno results. Not just a single posted number but the whole plot. Right?.. I hope you agree.

Notice that I don’t show just one baseline dyno Vs one dyno with the spacer. No… All the pulls are posted. Some on one plot with all sorts of analysis to make it easier to understand. How many vendors have you seen post 4 pre dynos and 4 post dynos on the same plot. How many vendors go to such great lengths to insure a fair and scientifically controlled test? Same car, same day, same dyno, same tank of gas, same ambient temps, same coolant temps, etc, etc? How many present data obtained from an independent dyno day with multiple (skeptical/objective) spectators present? How many vendors show more than 2 dynos period? Look at my website (under construction) and then look at all the others. I will always be forth coming with all the data. I have no need not to…The product works as advertised! And there is so much more that will be posted. …All in due time.

Pretty soon there will be nothing left for the nitpickers and naysayer to focus on. (I wish. They will always be around but that’s OK)

On a more positive note, about half of the “other mods” I have in development do not currently exist on the market in any way, so there shouldn’t be any vendor to smear or gripe about a loss of market share.

Redline,
Yes, I have been considering that but I don’t know if I would get a fair shake…
I would like to see a 11 comparison of baseline, spacer and Crawford cast plenum (or V5) but the test would have to be completely fair and scientifically controlled. As long as it’s fair and controlled, then absolutely!

 

I could not car less about technical test data.

My car runs better and stronger with the spacer. Period.

If you are a Crawford fan.....go for it....spend the extra $$.

Also, Motordynes customer service is second to none!

Thanks Tony!

 

Tony I have a question for you. Could I buy a spacer with the intent of returning it.

G35Sean is having the "Crawford Package" installed on his auto coupe in the next few weeks. He is going to do a baseline dyno (with grounding wires and z-tube only) then do a post dyno with all of the Crawford goodies installed. I would like to suggest that I buy the best plenum spacer you have (1/4", 3/8" or 1/2", whichever is best) and then take off the Crawford Plenum with the car still on the dyno and install your spacer and re-dyno.

I'd obviously have to run this by Sean before I bought the spacer, but since I already have my own plenum I would not be interested in keeping the spacer, regardless of the results.

If infact your spacer does produce more hp and tq with the headers, intake and cats then I think it would be safe to say that your spacer allows for "better flow" than the Crawford Plenum.

waddayathink? If Sean's cool with this I'll put the cost of the spacer on my credit card for a few weeks, as long as I can return it for a full refund. That's the best I can come up with.

 

Tell you what neffster, I will get the spacer and we can do a base run and with each product installed. Then we can see what the result are and end this debate! :-). If Sean's is will of course, we can use either his car or mine to dyno.

 

Awesome. Exactly what this thread needed. Let the unbaised numbers do the talking

 

"How many vendors are willing to let you 'try' before you buy when it comes to performance parts?" If I were to call up Crawford Z because I was skeptical about their claims would they provide me with a 'piggyback' for 'close to nothing??' I seriously doubt it and would feel embarrassed to even prompt the vendor for such a request. I dont think the fact that a person is skeptical about a product justifies a vendor providing any individual w/ a 'freebie', after all this isnt Monster Garage.

Case closed

 

LOL


.

 

"I dont think the fact that a person is skeptical about a product justifies a vendor providing any individual w/ a 'freebie', after all this isnt Monster Garage."

ROFLMAO!!!!!

Now...that's funny! You sir.....deserve a prize!!!

 

POST DELETED

 

i'm subsribing just to see how this ends..

 

Unfortunately these types of threads generally just fade out with no resolution because if everyone followed through to the end as the challenges imply then someone would come out looking worse for the wear, and most people aren't willing to step up and face the music when it comes time to do so. You know what they say, talk is cheap

I have to give Tony credit though, he has openly offered challenges for anyone to dyno his spacer against any other plenum mod, and early on even offered to pay for your spacer out of his own pocket to see results of a tightly controlled comparision. How many vendors have offered that to the skeptics? I can't think of a single one, ever. I don't think he needs to do that anymore, all dynos coming in back up his claims, with not a single one showing otherwise.

Of course I would love to see it happen though, the more fair independent comparisons done the better for us!

 

Tony, you don't have to give away squat to anyone.
You've proven your product with your dyno day with EK, albeit it was just you two love birds, the spacer was proven on 2.19.05 dyno day w/ plenty of people who saw it for themselves and it will be proven again on 3.26.05 dyno day.

Your product is great, it provides additional power through out the rev band, it's inexpensive, really easy to wrench on, I can't speak for others, but my mileage has improved, it's stealth and lastly, it's so simple yet effective.

Oh yeah, and customer service isn't too shabby either.

I think all the crawford goons just need to quit hating and stop the mud slinging already, s hit's getting old.

 

Sounds great Neffster. I will need a gentleman’s word that the test will be 100% fair for both sides and that the results will be posted all over MY350Z.

In fact if there is only one, I prefer that the comparison be done with the ¼” spacer..... ??? Am I totally nuts???... Well maybe just a little. For as good as the test was with Albert’s (E_K) car, I am not deluded into thinking it will necessarily have the same dramatic results again. It was almost too good to be believed with only one data point. Either way I expect the results to be very close even with a ¼” spacer. If you guys can also dyno Shetyamounts larger plenum spacer that would be cool too.

I won't be surprised by fair results but it sure would be like a brick over the head of the naysayers. Just give me a fair competition.

Before going into the dyno shop fill up with the best available gasoline and drive the car very, very hard. Make sure the tranny is good and hot.
Reset the ECU at the beginning of each set. This will absolutely guarantee the same ECU starting conditions. Baseline, Motordyne, Crawford.
Make sure the engine coolant temp goes down below 190 degrees F and slowly rises back up to 192 deg F before the start of each pull. You can easily drop coolant temp after a pull by turning on the cabin heater. Use the medium/low setting until coolant temp falls below 190'F then shut off the heater and allow engine to slowly heat back up to 192 deg F. The engine can be warmed up by shutting off the fan in front of the car and revving the engine. When the OBDII scanner shows 192'F immediately turn the fan back on and start the pull.

Make sure the atmospheric conditions are as similar as possible and preferably in a well ventilated area. Don't do it early in the morning or late in the afternoon. Atmospheric conditions change too much at those times. It should only take ~40 min to install a spacer. And maybe ~1.25 hours to switch out a full plenum.

Make sure the fan in front of the car is in the exact same position and speed setting for all the pulls. Never move it between pulls.
Do not change the tension of the tie down straps. There are many other variables that can be potentially tweaked or changed so do everything you can to not to let them change. The only thing that should change on the car between the different sets is the plenum configuration. Avoid touching anything else.
Because you are changing out a full plenum I am almost tempted to say to use the same throttle body but that can be a pain in the ***.

This is starting to sound like a real science project ehhh. I do this type of thing at my work all the time so I am used to it.

Have your whole club there observing if possible. Make print outs of everything while you are there but also get the raw tabular data on disk too. Email me the tabular data (and anybody else who requests it). I will plot it up and JPG it in a easy to read format. You could also verify authenticity of my plots by comparing it to your print outs. Your print outs can be scanned and posted and I will send you the JPG's to go with them.

Tony

 

My cars dyno’s aren’t independent but they are among the most scientifically controlled. This is how I came up with the 5-10 HP advertised rating. (And just between you and me, the advertised numbers are intentionally underrated.) I would rather be known for under rating HP numbers rather than inflating them.
(Hydrazine)
=====================
The availability of posted scientific data (dynos) performed in a very controlled environment keeping as many variables the same as possible is a big reason I purchased this spacer.

The other main reason I decided to purchase the spacer is because Tony doesn't hype his mod like so many other people/companies. (just look at all the over-hyped stuff you can buy on eBay).

Just about all the data I've seen points to a HP gain of 10+ HP, yet Tony decided to call it a 5-10HP gain. His whole attitude towards fair, accurate measurements, and conservative, underrated HP claims gives him a whole lot of credibility, in my book.

I don't get the feeling he is out to make a quick buck (..and I get that feeling alot with most of the things I see advertised) - I feel he has produced a quality product after doing alot of work during the research, design, development, and quality assuarance testing phases of this product.
His attitude is very refreshing to me.

I purchased the 3/8" spacer for my 6MT coupe (in Atlanta), and I've been driving with it for the last month or so, and I am very pleased with it. No problems whatsoever. I've never dyno'ed my car or anything, and couldn't tell you for sure if I've gained HP or not, but I did notice the RPMs seem to climb faster, that is, I seem to go through the RPMs quicker. I'm very happy.
I was considering the Crawford plenum (for a loooong time), but comparing all the available data, and doing a cost/value analysis, IMO, the spacer is a much better bang-for-the-buck than a new/rebuilt plenum top. Not to mention the "stealth" factor.

Just my $0.02 worth - Thanx for listening.

2004 Coupe 6MT, premium, no nav, alum pedals, Z-tube, K&N, 3/8" spacer.
Looking for Sway bars as my next mod.

 

Well... (1) I don't want to buy a spacer and (2) Crawford doesn't make a "piggyback" so I think you're slightly confused. BTW, I called up Crawford and got a FREE PLENUM and a FREE OIL CAP. What's your point about calling people up and not getting a free product? Again, I think you're slightly confused.

I want to test the spacer to put an end to the debate that's going on about "equally balanced flow". I don't know what the answer really is and would objectively like to find out. Ideally I would test the spacer on a G35 that has the Crawford Headers and Crawford Cats (which is "supposedly" designed to work w/ the Crawford Plenum). This set up is touted as the Crawford "total package" because of the increased and even flow characteristics. By switching out the plenum for the spacer and comparing the results on the same car and on the same dyno, the results should speak for themselves pretty darn well.

Tony- Sounds like another CFL Dyno Day is in order. Since Adam offered his car (a sedan) that's fine w/ me if it's ok to use as a comparison point. I'll print out your above instructions and make sure we follow them to a "T" for each set of pulls.

Now I've just got to come up with a catchy name for all of your "followers" so that the Crawford Cronies won't feel so darn special.

I think I'll coin the term "Hydrazine Harridan's". Equally fitting IMO.

Adam- what size spacer did you order?