Why would you say that? Although they do cost more, they are definately not a "waste of time and money." Properly designed, with the CORRECT sized turbo(s), there is no lag in the spool up, and by design, turbos are more efficient. Take my 3, there is very very little to no lag and boost is almost instantaneous due to the design of the system. There is no parasitic loss from the drive belt like superchargers see. In fact, centri superchargers see some lag, versus roots/screw blowers which do not.

Also, you got it backward. Turbos work off exhaust gases while s/c's work off the belt.

 

As an owner of a turbo car and another turbo car before it, you will ALWAYS have lag in a turbo setup. Now it can be reduced with smaller turbos but then you sacrifice higher rpm power. I've had four different setups in 2 different cars from stock to wild.

 

As long as there is spool up there will be some lag. I think this is where the new Ford setup is trying to work, what you mentioned in the way of a smaller turbo. If I read their write up correctly it is a matter of two turbos of different sizes working together rather than a normal twin turbo setup.

 

I think he had it correct and it was just misinterpreted, hence the * before turbo.

Both have parasitic loss just using different parts of the engine to supply the energy to drive the unit (the exhaust gasses don't escape on their own).

 

That would be sequential setup and this helps but no mater what, a turbo operates around 80-100k rpms at full boost. No matter how quick you get there, its going to have "some" lag.

 

It would be interesting to know what speeds the Fords operate at. While there will always be 'lag' in any gas setup, it may well be very minimal.

Of interest is a new Mercedes. It has a small electric built into the transmission, if I remember correct about 20 hp. A small battery is under the hood. Now if you pair this setup with a turbo you could have no apparent lag.

One previous car I read about that was demonstrated had a 100 hp gas engine and a 300 hp electric with what was termed a super capacitor. It could do 100 on gas and 150 when pushed (for a little while). Maybe something similar could be done.

I have operated a lot of turbo equipment machinery. The difference is startling when they fail as well as the difference between a non boosted machine and a boosted one of the same basic configuration.

I wonder if there are any turbos that could be electrically boosted up to speed. I know of many industrial applications that do something similar using a small electric to bring up a piece of equipment to a high speed before the main driver takes over.

 

May well be the best suggestion for 'best bang for the buck' if they come cheap.

One thing I think is almost always bypassed in such discussions is the actual cost. For example another 'G' owner had a light weight pulley. These can cause crank issues regardless of how well they are balanced. You need to consider how much a replacement engine enters into the picture if it causes one to fail early. So to me the best bang for the buck is one that provides the best performance increase over the intended life of the car based on all factors including reliability.

 

What needs to be considered is the intended use of the vehicle. For the general public a turbo lag is unacceptable. Think of your mom getting into a vehicle and flooring it and thinking "what a turd, somethings wrong". So manufactures have sequentials, or small turbos, etc. to minimize lag.

However, for an enthusiast lag is just a lit fuse waiting to detonate. Lag isn't a real problem if you know how to drive the car. If you're road racing you simply get on the gas earlier. If you drag race, you're using a 2-step or anti-lag. Either way, when you shift you shift with authority and the turbo stays in the sweet spot.

Back to your point about alternative means of spooling. I'm sure there are several existing ways to hide lag but the manufacturing/engineering cost would probably be prohibitive.

 

The statement about lag reminds me of the lag of one of Jay Leno's bikes. It seems he has one that has a turbine. I have operated gas turbines for power production (LM6000) and am aware of the lag mentioned. Basically this thing is capable of something like 300 MPH. What was mentioned is that you constantly have to think ahead. You hit the throttle and nothing happens and then all 'h...' breaks lose. Now it also happens in the reverse direction. You close the throttle and the fuel has to flush through the turbine as well before it slows down. Definately not your mom's bike.

 

From personal experience, there is little or no lag on a properly sized FI system. Keep in mind, the car is part of the system. If there is turbo lag, the baseline power output of our HR motor will hide it.

My first car was a N/A 4speed Mustang with a 302 with intake / exhaust mods. If I didn't know my G had turbos, I would not have been able to tell the difference in acceleration between the two off the line.

But I also have to admit I've never tried road racing the two.

 

I Ended up getting both The Injen CAI and Bully Dog.