Everyone, PLEASE HELP!!!

I am looking to accomplish several things listed in order of importance...

1. Drop the car a slight amount
2. Keep my tires from wearing out too fast. I think this means keeping the stock camber #'s.
3. Keep my shocks lasting as long as possible
4. I don't want a "bouncy" ride

So far I've considered both ends of the spectrum, from the TEIN H-Techs (I think I'm supposed to get the ones for the Z) and the TEIN FLEX with EDFC.

If I choose the H-Techs would I be sacraficing ride quality, shock life or tire life by "cheaping out"? I drive ~12,000 miles each year, so if my tire tread will wear out twice as fast, I might as well spring for the FLEX with EDFC.

Are there any draw backs by going with only springs? I've read that I will not have any problems with camber if I go with either route, is this correct?

Also, there is a very informed poster that keeps posting all this information about different brands of springs and their associated spring rates (which I do not understand one bit). Can anyone shed some light on his post?

Thank you so much for your help in advance... Pictures will follow soon. [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

 

Tein H-Techs should be fine for what you want. It's a small drop so it won't really kill you shocks. You shouldn't have camber issues either. Just make sure you get an alignment after you install them.

Thanks - Joey Avino

 

Are the H-Techs the one's that come out to about 1" max drop? I hate to go any more than 1" and start running into clearance problems where there might not have been issues at the stock height.

'05 IP(or ?) 6MT... ...Never too soon to think about modifications!!

 

Couple of thoughts neff.
1. unless you plan on tracking the car frequently, the flex may be too much for you in terms of stiffness even with the dampers set at full soft. Some people seem to be fine with the stiffness while others have changed them out due to it. If you want the edfc, then the CS might be a better decision as the spring rates are much closer to stock. Don't forget about the basics either. They're less expensive and will have the full range of adjustment. You just won't have the ability to change the damper setting as easily. They are between the stiffness of the flex and cs.

h-techs: I'm not sure what the spring rates are on the h-techs but I remember them being very front biased. I'm sure you have the info that Gsedan35 lists regarding the various spring rates. Most of the coilovers and springs tend to shift the stiffness to the front. This will make the car 'safer' by increasing understeer, all other things being equal. It will also help you get a better launch in the 1/4 mile by letting the car's rear end sit down more when taking off.

I don't think you're cheaping out with the h-techs as tein has a good reputation. The 2 things that kept me from choosing them were the spring rates (I wanted to get rid of some understeer instead of increasing it) and the fact that the rear is dropped more than the fronts IIRC. I prefer a wedge like profile instead of one where it looks like you have 300 lbs. of stuff in the trunk.

Shocks: they will tend to wear out faster if they are at a different height. However, with so many guys selling their stock set-ups for next to nothing, it wouldn't really be a factor for me. If they wear out, spend $50 and get some from a guy who has replaced them usually with low miles.

Bounce: with coilovers or even the stock shocks, you won't have to worry about bounce.

Camber: I think it's all car dependent in terms of being able to get it back within spec. ~3/4" seems to be around the max before going out of spec. However, there are some that have more and are still within and some that have less and are out of spec. You also have to remember that being 'in spec' can be very different than being at 'nominal.' Just because you're in spec (say -1.25 degrees of camber in the front) doesn't mean you'll get the same tire life at nominal, which is -.5 degrees.

Drawbacks with just springs: no adjustability. You get the drop and that's it. You have to live with it good or bad. When I got my RSR's, they published a drop of .6" for the Z, which is about what I wanted because I had the same concerns about camber, tire wear, etc. that you do. I thought that I would get the same drop because the suspension for the G and the Z was supposed to be identical. When I put them on, I got a ~1" drop all around, which is more than I wanted because of scraping concerns. It looks great but I have to be more careful over uneven pavement.

With coilover's, you can get the exact amount of drop that you want be it .5 or 1.5 or even more. That's about the only advantage to coilovers except for some that you can change the damping rates on.

 

H-Techs are rated at 0.6" in the front and 0.7" in the back I believe. I have heard less... someone said they offer a 0.3" drop.

Thanks - Joey Avino

 

Al,

Would the TEIN type CS w/ EDFC be considered softer suspension than stock? I just did a quick search and comfort seems to be the push behind this setup. Would I lose performance (over the stock set up) by going to this setup? Also I noticed that it costs an arm and a leg, just like the FLEX does.

On the other hand, the TEIN Basics for 1/2 the price (lose the ability to have the EDFC) mention a Ride height drop: -1.5" FR -0.9" RR. Is this set up adjustable like the FLEX and CS, meaning I can set my ride height to have an exact drop of 0.7" so that I don't go out of spec and can avoid having the horrible tire tread wear? The EDFC would be nice, but I'd only use it when the wife was in the car, which isn't all that often so for ~ $1000 I might be able to give that feature up .

 

No. The CS has stiffer springs than stock. I believe that you can make it ride softer than stock by adjusting the dampers though. I would guess that at full soft, they would ride softer and at full stiff, they would be noticeably stiffer.

The cs are 392 lbs. f and r, the basics are 503 lbs. f and r and the flex are 671 f and r. Stocks are about 314 f and 347 r IIRC.


The ride heights you mention are what the factory recommends you have them at. I believe this will be where the shocks perform the best and will last the longest.

However, the range is -.7" to -2.6" in the front and +.2" to -1.2" in the rear. You should be able to get them within a tenth or two anywhere in between those numbers.

One thing you should know about coilovers is that they do need to be pulled off and re-conditioned periodically. I've heard anywhere from every 2 years to don't worry about it. I don't think many people know this before purchasing them.

Hope this helps. There's a lot to know and you're doing the right thing by getting as much info as you can before you make a decision.

 

See this <a href="https://g35driver.com/forums/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=14&Number=91989&page=&view =&sb=&part=4&vc=1">thread</a> for some numbers on min and max stiffness using edfc. Basically, with the CS, on the softest setting, you'll be 20% softer than stock. On stiffist, you're only 40% stiffer. The rear doesn't look to be adjustable via EDFC according to the chart. I'm strongly considering the JDM Flex setup myself. It's like the Flex setup with the Basics springs.

 

So, due to price and financial reasons I'm leaning toward the TEIN Basics at this point. Do they need to be taken off and reconditioned every 24 months or so? A good buddy of mine says that a full coilover suspension would be over kill for me (he knows my driving habits and knows I have NO plans on tracking the car). He races spec miata (owns coilovers) and is on the Porsche GT Racing team so I value his opinions quite a bit. He strongly recommended a shock and spring matched for the car. This is why I'm leaning toward the TEIN BASICS. I really want an adjustable initial setting to establish the right ride height, (for camber/tire wear concerns) yet obtain a "good looking" drop that's not too drastic.

If I were to have a 19 x 9.0 (with a 245/35/19) and a 19 x 10.0 (with a 275/35/19) wheel and tire setup would I experience more understeer than stock if I chose the TEIN BASIC package? If so, does this mean I'd need to add sway bars to the stock 6MT, or are the stock sways good enough for the drop and wider tires with more stagger than the stock set up? One thing I do not want is the back end to be any more tail happy than it already is...

I'm almost out of questions, so thanks for hanging in there with me guys. BTW, the sway and suspension budget goal is $1000 (maybe slightly hire if need be), so keep the expensive recommendations at a minimum. [img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img]

 

I agree with your bud. For most people, coilovers are overkill including those who track (unless they are hardcore.)

if you're going with 9" up front, get 255/35/19"s. It will look better on 9" wheels and provide more protection to the rim while cutting down the difference in width.

Since you're not going to track, don't worry about the sway bars.

In terms of re-conditioning, I don't know about the schedule besides what I've read. I'd imagine that living in FL with the humidity could be hard on the shocks. One of the shops here says that coilovers don't last very long in the NW due to all the rain and possible rusting. If you did have to recondition it every other year (worst case), then you're looking at a lot of time and effort/$ to get them out, send them back and get them reconditioned, and then put them back in. It's just not worth it IMO.

I would just look for a set of springs with the amount of drop you're looking for and call it good.

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

I would just look for a set of springs with the amount of drop you're looking for and call it good.

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Which set of springs could I choose to keep the car "neutral" (not too much tail happiness under acceleration) and which ones would also keep the camber within stock settings. I DO NOT want to be buying tires every 7500 miles or so, it would just be too expensive. Also, shocks all seem to advertise one drop, but they all seem to yield more than advertised. This is all so confusing...

Also, with the springs alone, would I have to be buying stock shocks every 2 years because the spring rates were off? If so, it might be easier to just SPRING (pun intended) for the BASICS and call it a day.

I'm really open to suggestions here guys so please feel free to give your opinions.

TIA

 

2 things (that I know of) will affect the life of your shocks:
1. changing the ride height
2. changing the stiffness of the springs

If I were in your position looking for springs, I would probably choose the h-tech made for the 350z. Spring rates are 358 and 375 which are approx 12% and 8% stiffer than stock. It doesn't transfer too much stiffness to the front like the coilovers so the handling will be about the same. If anything, it will increase understeer a touch but I doubt the majority of us would notice it.

The advertised drops are .3" and .2" f to r. With the additional ~+.5" (again, the difference between the z and g suspension) you're looking at around .8 and .7" f and r. Perfect.

I don't think your shocks will be affected that much either at less than an inch of difference.

If you do go with these, you'll be surprised and notice the additional stiffness right away. It'll make you glad that you didn't go with the basics (no offense to anyone who has gotten the basics or anything stiffer.) I went up about 10 and 22% and noticed it right away. I haven't ridden in a car with stiffer springs yet but I can't imagine what the flex feels like.

 

Are there any guarantees that my tires will not wear out in 10,000 miles (or less) with the TEIN H-TECHS for the Z? I'm liking the cheaper solution but if it's going to cost me big in the long run I'd rather spend more now.

 

I have a 1" drop and my GS-D3' are still in good shape after 12K. Granted my commute is 80+% highway but I also have 1 track day on them.

The inside tread is starting to wear out faster than the outside. I got the SPC camber rods and toe bolts for $220 and I'm looking at getting the 350evo ($850) or the new Cusco (~$400? due out next month) front control arms to get my camber perfect (nominal instead of 'in spec') for the street and still be able to slam it for the track.

While you may be able to get your car back in spec (if I were a betting person, I'd bet that you could) if it's right on the borderline, you're still going to get accelerated inner tire wear.

I'd get the springs, and get the spc for the rear and either the cusco or the kinetix front arms at $370-$400? ish. You're still under budget or right at it with install. When you sell the car, you could probably recoup a very good percentage of your investment.