I boosted it to the junk yard, that thing rusted to the ground in less than 5 years.

 

Springs: Sprung and Unsprung Mass
The sprung mass is the mass of the vehicle supported on the springs, while the unsprung mass is loosely defined as the mass between the road and the suspension springs. The stiffness of the springs affects how the sprung mass responds while the car is being driven. Loosely sprung cars, such as luxury cars (think Lincoln Town Car), can swallow bumps and provide a super-smooth ride; however, such a car is prone to dive and squat during braking and acceleration and tends to experience body sway or roll during cornering. Tightly sprung cars, such as sports cars (think Mazda Miata), are less forgiving on bumpy roads, but they minimize body motion well, which means they can be driven aggressively, even around corners.

So, while springs by themselves seem like simple devices, designing and implementing them on a car to balance passenger comfort with handling is a complex task. And to make matters more complex, springs alone can't provide a perfectly smooth ride. Why? Because springs are great at absorbing energy, but not so good at dissipating it. Other structures, known as dampers, are required to do this.

 

Thanks redlude

 

But then again, there is a huge difference in weight between the two. You won't feel the weight of a Miata in turns because the thing really doesn't weigh anything...

 

I don't think they were comparing the two as much as they were illustrating their point.

Point being, springs don't just support the car, they are tools to be used to tune a car's suspension to the user's preference. One can use stiffer springs to tune a car's handling, just as one can use swaybars. But both accomplish their goals a bit differently.

 

True, I have seen Crown Vics that handle as well as an OEM Sport G. It's all in how it's set up.

 

I suppose it's possible sure. It's difficult to get around the physics of a Crown Vic's weight but I think if certain concessions regarding ride confort were taken, one could get a Crown Vic to handle very well. No reason why it can't. It's suspension underpinnings are shared by alot of other cars.

 

I think that if your car corners well, you'd want an LSD for faster exit speed. There is no perfect suspension, so an LSD will always be nice. Our LSD's really only kick in after wheel spin? . . . how much wheel spin?

Your statement about getting tons of understeer is false. This is what I've been trying to say the whole time. A car has four corners. I did not say this in reference to corner balancing. I said this in reference to deciding how much weight transfer is absorbed by either side (front or back) of the suspension. You are right though, some weight transfer is desired. I suppose I was kinda making some "perfect assumptions." If you have more roll stiffness in the rear, the front of the car will stick better than the rear and you will get oversteer, not understeer! Roll stiffness is a function of springs, sway bars, and in transient loading, shock settings. Sway bars are nice because they only affect the roll stiffness of the suspension. They do not change the characteristics of your suspension in straight line acceleration and braking or when you encounter a bump in the road (speed bump style). So bottom line, springs are a major component in tuning the suspension for whatever characteristics you want in a vehicle.

 

Revival!

This thread had some crazy info in it. Thanks to the suspension gurus

 

Alternately, stiffen the front of a RWD and with enough power, you will kick the rear out more... thus inducing loads of oversteer. (a lot of drift cars use this technique)

Sway bars are a great mod, IMO the best first mod to any car at that! You're right, they don't improve straight line traction, but they do improve energy transfer in turns, therefore improving traction there.

I have a very simple philosophy when it comes to suspensions... every component plays it's role in everything, but they all have one major job to do that the others only contribute to. I like to keep things simple and stick to that philosophy when I'm modding any car because you need to retain balance between your suspension and chassis...

IE: if you want to reduce sway, rely on the sway bars, not the springs or struts - upgraded springs and struts without the sway bar will only get you so far. If you want more traction, look into better struts and tires. If you want better feel, change the springs and match them to your struts (or vice versa). Balance is the key here, so I never suggest anyone to go changing out their springs just because they want less sway. If the springs are too soft, the ride will be bouncy. If the springs are too stiff, the ride will be harsh. Have a good balance between spring rate and strut dampening, and the ride will be firm while offering the best traction.

And just something to keep in mind - the chassis can never be too stiff, but the suspension can! Energy transfers left and right through a stiffer chassis better, but it's the suspension's job to absorb the (excessive?) energy... not sure how well that last paragraph made sense...

 

And our VLSD has not helped me get better exit speeds either... I seem to do better with everything turned off. And so far for me, our VLSD/traction control only kicks in after wheel spin and on my way out of turns which is very f*cking annoying. If I'm getting the two systems mixed up, then please excuse the confusion. BTW, with everything on, I'll still spin my wheels on 1st, 2nd and 3rd if I push it.

 

This makes sense to me, I have coilovers and I had them all the way to stiffest and it was insane harsh. When it's on soft its just too bouncy for me. I have it smack in the middle. I thought stiffest meant better, but at stiffest the car felt like it didnt want to turn. Now i had a rear strut bar before coils and i felt like turns were a lot easier to take with just the rear strut bar alone.
I guessed the reduce body roll with the coils at stiffest translated into better turning to me. Sure 90 degree turns(turning into side streets) improved better, but when it came to those 40mph turns its didn't perform as well as i thought it should have.
That's not the case, i guess the car needs some flex. A good balance is a good way to put it. Maybe a front strut bar may balance it out, i wonder how good a front strut bar is because the rear made a definate improvement.

 

You can't turn off the VLSD

 

For the coilovers (or good ones at least) the lower you adjust the ride height, the firmer you want the struts.

The car (chassis) does not need to flex... the suspension does need to give though... Chassis reinforcement is never a bad thing and will definitely help power transfer all around. Tie bars, strut bars, fender braces, cross braces etc... all help. But the front strut bar is the only tricky piece... it does do something by itself if you have the tie bars, etc to support it, but they are usually a pretty worthless mod unless it connects to the firewall. But having a strut bar with fender braces is pretty much the same thing as a 3 point strut bar.

 

Yeah, I think you might be mixing them up. The VLSD refers to the viscous limited slip differential. The VDC is the traction control. The traction control is definitely too intrusive, I even have it kick in during corner entry sometimes if I forget to turn it off on the racetrack. The VLSD works pretty well from what I can tell. I don't have too many traction problems with the tires and setup I run, but when I do, both wheels definitely spin, so I suppose the LSD is doing its job.