G35 Front Strut Tower brace
#271
05-12-2008, 02:22 PM
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
Just my IMHO, the long arms this bar sets it up for flex. Just my IMHO.
The RA brace isn't a 1 pc. It's a bunch of pieces. I'd only consider the circuit sports unit a 1 pc.
BTW I have the richie one also.
The RA brace isn't a 1 pc. It's a bunch of pieces. I'd only consider the circuit sports unit a 1 pc.
BTW I have the richie one also.
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
It's welded together. Welding 2 pcs together = 1 pc.
For stiffness, I think alumin is okay if you use the right shape. An aluminum tube would be stiffer than a flat shet of steel. Given they are relatively similar in size etc.
For stiffness, I think alumin is okay if you use the right shape. An aluminum tube would be stiffer than a flat shet of steel. Given they are relatively similar in size etc.
Last edited by Calvin; 05-12-2008 at 02:31 PM.
#272
05-12-2008, 02:23 PM
#273
05-12-2008, 02:25 PM
#274
05-12-2008, 02:25 PM
Is RA = VRT? If not, my fault. If so, then what are those bolts/nuts doing in there?
But my initial problem with this bar wasn't the 1pc/3pc design. It was the length of each support bar. Also look at the tabs that the support bars use to attach it to the car. Doesn't one of the supports attach to the strut tower sheet metal?
But my initial problem with this bar wasn't the 1pc/3pc design. It was the length of each support bar. Also look at the tabs that the support bars use to attach it to the car. Doesn't one of the supports attach to the strut tower sheet metal?
#275
05-12-2008, 02:26 PM
Originally Posted by Lawy'dU
FYI is the AAM one:
http://www.alteredatmosphere.com/mm5...Code=350Z_SUSP
Scott's one is way better IMO
http://www.alteredatmosphere.com/mm5...Code=350Z_SUSP
Scott's one is way better IMO
#276
05-12-2008, 02:27 PM
Originally Posted by redlude97
Actually, I take that back, the RA bar posted above is 3 pieces bolted together, but I have seen ones that are 1 piece, how many versions are there?
#277
05-12-2008, 02:29 PM
#280
05-12-2008, 02:33 PM
Anyway, here are all the reviews of this bar that I could dig up.
https://g35driver.com/forums/reviews/144625-review-g35-vrt-strut-tower-brace.html
https://g35driver.com/forums/brakes-suspension/113711-vrt-front-strut-brace-review-pics.html
https://g35driver.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=250
https://g35driver.com/forums/showpos...82&postcount=9
https://g35driver.com/forums/reviews/144625-review-g35-vrt-strut-tower-brace.html
https://g35driver.com/forums/brakes-suspension/113711-vrt-front-strut-brace-review-pics.html
https://g35driver.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=250
https://g35driver.com/forums/showpos...82&postcount=9
#282
05-12-2008, 10:42 PM
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The RA/VRT strut bar is 3 pieces. There's no doubt it stiffens up the front end, but fitment with other parts is a bit more of a pain in the *** compared to the design of other bars because of the design of the 3 point mount. Also, because the chromemoly is so incredibly strong, and each one is handmade, if its not a perfect fit, it can be a nightmare to install and remove. On each occasion, its taken 3 mechanics to reinstall the bar and muscle it into place because the clearance tolerances are so tight.
Don't get me wrong, I still think its an effective option, but I'm going to explore some alternatives just to see what offers the best compromise of functionality, price and ease of installation/removal. If I don't find a better alternative, I'll eventually reinstall my bar and after machining it down a hair for better fitment.
Don't get me wrong, I still think its an effective option, but I'm going to explore some alternatives just to see what offers the best compromise of functionality, price and ease of installation/removal. If I don't find a better alternative, I'll eventually reinstall my bar and after machining it down a hair for better fitment.
Last edited by helldorado; 05-12-2008 at 10:47 PM.
#283
05-12-2008, 11:59 PM
Originally Posted by Lawy'dU
everything hero and redlude has said is incorrect. The main flaw with typical strut bar design for the G35 and Z33 is that because these cars qualify as midship cars (the engine sits further back than the front axels), the front flexes in multiple (additional) points. The vrt bar takes care of the additional forward flex points on the g35 as well as the conventional flex points. Altered atmosphere has just put out a strut bar that accomplishes this, but it utilizes an additional front strut bar (you have to have 2 front strut bars).
and for the original question holder, this bar is no longer in production but there may be a limited number of these bars made again under relentless autosports since this was Scott's design, and VRT has been shut down.
and for the original question holder, this bar is no longer in production but there may be a limited number of these bars made again under relentless autosports since this was Scott's design, and VRT has been shut down.
#284
05-13-2008, 12:39 AM
Originally Posted by aHero4Eternity
Anyway, here are all the reviews of this bar that I could dig up.
https://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144625
https://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113711
https://g35driver.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=250
https://g35driver.com/forums/showpos...82&postcount=9
https://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=144625
https://g35driver.com/forums/showthread.php?t=113711
https://g35driver.com/forums/showpos...&postcount=250
https://g35driver.com/forums/showpos...82&postcount=9
The VRT bar is a design compromise because of a difficult installation enviroment. Given that I don't see the bar as passing a critical anyasis by any engineer (see conversation below) that doesn't have a vested profit motive or get's parinoid that anyone is ignoring the degree hanging on the wall, I don't see any review holding much weight, however well intented or thought out and without any intention's of offending ANYONE, something I don't have a desire to do. I'll point out that pretty much every single coilover install tends to receive good reviews no matter the brand. How it "feels" doesn't carry any weight for me, only thing that would remotely get me interested is seeing the bars mounting legs on a test jig that measures how well it can resist force and not flex.
Originally Posted by Resolute
James,
Happy to give my .02 on this. I think you already have this figured out, but the design is flawed for the purpose of reducing chassis flex and improving load transfer between the front suspension members. At CSU there is a chassis regidity tester that is used in conjunction with their prototype racer designs for the Motorsport Engineering program. One of the things considered for GT class cars was the obligatory strut tower bar that has become very common in production units. As I'm sure you know, three fixed members are ideal, with two members extending either fore or aft to the bulkhead, depending on the configuration. The mitsu EVO has a good design for this. However, in an ideal situation for controlling lateral loads, the engine would also become a stressed member of the chassis. Aside from this, the strut bar is very limited in its benefit. in fact, reinforcing the front bulkhead with additional welds and bracing around the engine is the next best plan. Opera Performance executed this on its 350Z and so did NISMO with the GT-R Z-tune. The strut bar to be effective at all should be fixed in position, and not able to flex or move in any plane. This design you posted, like a lot of aftermarket bars, violates this rule. You can see the center bar is not attached to the ends in a fixed location, but by a bolt that allows motion around it. Plus, the odd mounting points offer little improvement- if any. The strut bar is nice to prevent flex in the damper/spring mounting area, and load transfer can be assisted via this bar. However, it is really only as effective as the rigidity of the lower suspension members that control wheel motion. If the lower members are not rigid enough to compliment the bar, then energy is wasted. Hence making the engine a stressed component is the ideal as it offers a simple way to tie the lower members together in a similiar fashion as the strut bar does for the upper members and damper/spring mount.
Long answer, but nothing is ever simple in my mind and I like to try and cover all the bases and answer possible questions before they come up. This tends to make more questions though, so let me know if there are any. I would not buy the bar, and I think you have the same reservations I wrote of. Take care,
Will
Happy to give my .02 on this. I think you already have this figured out, but the design is flawed for the purpose of reducing chassis flex and improving load transfer between the front suspension members. At CSU there is a chassis regidity tester that is used in conjunction with their prototype racer designs for the Motorsport Engineering program. One of the things considered for GT class cars was the obligatory strut tower bar that has become very common in production units. As I'm sure you know, three fixed members are ideal, with two members extending either fore or aft to the bulkhead, depending on the configuration. The mitsu EVO has a good design for this. However, in an ideal situation for controlling lateral loads, the engine would also become a stressed member of the chassis. Aside from this, the strut bar is very limited in its benefit. in fact, reinforcing the front bulkhead with additional welds and bracing around the engine is the next best plan. Opera Performance executed this on its 350Z and so did NISMO with the GT-R Z-tune. The strut bar to be effective at all should be fixed in position, and not able to flex or move in any plane. This design you posted, like a lot of aftermarket bars, violates this rule. You can see the center bar is not attached to the ends in a fixed location, but by a bolt that allows motion around it. Plus, the odd mounting points offer little improvement- if any. The strut bar is nice to prevent flex in the damper/spring mounting area, and load transfer can be assisted via this bar. However, it is really only as effective as the rigidity of the lower suspension members that control wheel motion. If the lower members are not rigid enough to compliment the bar, then energy is wasted. Hence making the engine a stressed component is the ideal as it offers a simple way to tie the lower members together in a similiar fashion as the strut bar does for the upper members and damper/spring mount.
Long answer, but nothing is ever simple in my mind and I like to try and cover all the bases and answer possible questions before they come up. This tends to make more questions though, so let me know if there are any. I would not buy the bar, and I think you have the same reservations I wrote of. Take care,
Will
#285
05-13-2008, 01:10 AM
