I said i like the sedan better (if the HP measures up) but its an opinion call. So whatever you think is best is best, to you. Try quantifying a qualitative subject and you end up with BULL$#|+.

How many bubbles are there in this bar of soap?

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

It's funny how my "coast-down" comment was completely dismissed by the author of this thread

<hr></blockquote>
I dont forget about questions I've been asked unlike you who still not answered my question. I repeat again. What's the difference between a 400 whp and a 700 whp Supra?

Back to your question. According to numerous mechanics/tuners those are the right numbers for manual and auto cars on the drivetrain loss (see my post on the top). I see what I can do in order to pull a hard data.

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

First, you make blanket assumptions, and then when challenged to back up your supposed facts, you have no answer?<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>



Blanked assumptions???
Challenged?? By you??? [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

You dont worry about me I will deliver what I promised this week - thread with analysis/comparison with HP/TQ and "area under the curve" and power to weight ratio illustrating that G35 SEDAN is UNDERRATED. Believe me, Im extremely happy with my sedan and I dont have to prove anything to anyone it just that Im curious myself and having fun.

Can you emphasize the difference between manual vs. manual with full analysis/comparision and post it here for everyone? Or all you can is bla, bla, bla. Im not sure if you even own G35 in the first place.


Anyway, I challenge you to answer my the question above.

2004 G35s auto (bone stock)
-----------------------------------
2002 s/c Accord V6 auto
so far best 1/4 mile - 13.9@101.8
coming soon: custom internals, cams, performance auto tranny w/LSD

 

Your question was rhetorical, no?

If not, then I must use my 3rd grade edumacation to say that the difference between a 400 HP Supra and a 700 HP Supra is 300 HP. Duh.

And just who are these various tuners and mechanics that KNOW for a FACT the drivetrain loss of a G35C? You are using general numbers, but trying to support them as FACT. Get real. Those that know better don't buy your lame assumptions.

And just for the record, I'm not sure that you own a G35 sedan either. But then again, would you actually have to own one to be part of this discussion?

Grow up, little man.

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Your question was rhetorical, no?
If not, then I must use my 3rd grade edumacation to say that the difference between a 400 HP Supra and a 700 HP Supra is 300 HP. Duh


<hr></blockquote>
Wrong answer. Just as I thought [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img].
The difference between 400whp and 700whp Supra is ... they both run 12's .
Care to figure out on your own or you need some help?

As far as other comments I would rather not respond otherwise this thread will close right away. Im way above that.
And try to find FACTS on your own maybe your will be beneficial to this forum.

Now for adults only.
Some dynos I've collected for comparison/analysis on this topic came out kind a small except "gurgenpb" so I need to zoom in Photoshop.
Since this thread is going to be as detailed as possible it will take more time then I expected. I'll try to post it this week or early next week latest.

Happy driving!

2004 G35s auto (bone stock)
-----------------------------------
2002 s/c Accord V6 auto
so far best 1/4 mile - 13.9@101.8
coming soon: custom internals, cams, performance auto tranny w/LSD

 

"The difference between 400whp and 700whp Supra is ... they both run 12's"

That's not a difference, that is a common trait.
Seriously though, take a chill pill everyone. The posted numbers wont be apples to apples (not same day same dyno) If however there are enough of them, they can help in putting the puzzle together.

As far as drive train loss figures, the only way to get a accurate ESTIMATION is to pull a motor and dyno it, then do a wheel dyno. Do this a few times with the same car, and you can get an approximation.

We do know the ball park DT loss from experience with other cars though, 15 to 20% PLUS OR MINUS. BUT the drive train loss will be close between the two cars anyway! The coupe may even loose some power to its larger 18" wheels. But if dyno results are within 5hp, or even 10hp on a wide enough sample, then we will know that the rating on one of the two cars, or possibly both were off.

Will being underrated prove that the sedan is better? You bet'cha! It will prove that the sedan is unequivocally better in every way, including in terms of aesthetics, performance, functionality, contribution to world peace, job creation, feeding the poor, and long-term durability.

But watch out sedan owners, because if dynos don't prove our natural god granted superiority, they will prove to be our undoing. What if low dyno numbers instead prove that the sedan is a terrorist threat created by the axis of evil to subvert the way of life we enjoy here as free peoples.

The proof is in the pudding. The dynos may or may not be accurate. if they are, then they are, and if they're not, then don’t worry about it coupe owners. If AV6 ends up with a sedan and lines up next to you, his possession of incorrect or misinterpreted dyno numbers wont help him win a race with you. Let track times tell who is faster, and let the dynos help us understand why that car is faster.

I've got too much time on my hands.......

 

Nice post [img]/w3timages/icons/smile.gif[/img]

G

2003.5 Black w/ Willow G35
Premium / Sport / Aero / Winter / Navi / Tint

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Wrong answer. Just as I thought .
The difference between 400whp and 700whp Supra is ... they both run 12's .


<hr></blockquote>

Actually, my answer was correct. If you can't do the math, don;t blame me.

I know see how deep your ignorance runs, so I'll keep this short-- To say that both a 400 and 700 HP Supra (or any car for that matter) both run 12's is beyond retarded. There are way too many variables to consider. Are you telling me that a 700 HP Supra cannot break into the 11 second barrier? If so, you are a total fool. I happen to have a good friend who owns a Supra Turbo with approx 550 HP (crank) that runs 12.40's on street radials and has run high 11's with cheater slicks.

So, once again, you are PROVEN wrong. BTW, I can prove those numbers and the HP level of the car. He's got videos, timeslips and dyno run sheets to prove it.

Now, STFU, m'kay?

 

Post deleted by hitman

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

The difference between 400whp and 700whp Supra is ... they both run 12's"

<hr></blockquote>

Wow, what an answer... let's see, here's what we knew as FACTS from your question:

1- Both cars were Supras
2- One has 400 HP and the other has 700 HP

Now, I ask you, intelligent people of the forum, what can we POSSIBLY conclude from this ridiculous question? (Question is "What's the difference between a 400 rwhp and 700 rwhp Supra?)

Hmmm.... a few answers for AVboy:

1- The 700 HP Supra is black
2- The 400 HP Supra is silver
3- The 700 HP Supra is driven by a guy 5'10"
4- The 400 HP Supra is driven by a guy 5' 4"

Get the point? With this info given, anyone with any type of brains would only answer that the difference is 300 HP.

This is the exact reason why nobody cares about your thread. You don't want to deal in facts, but act like you do. Very sad.

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

As far as drive train loss figures, the only way to get a accurate ESTIMATION is to pull a motor and dyno it, then do a wheel dyno.

<hr></blockquote>

Actually, I'm surpised that so many of you people have never heard of a "coast down" test on a dyno. It gives you an EXACT number for drivetrain loss.

Any good dyno shop should be able to perform a coast-down test.

 

boys, boys (notice I'm not saying gentlemen, gentlemen) come now.
In the words of Jewels talking to Yolonda in a little cafe in Pulp Fiction Land: "SETTLE THE F#(* DOWN"

Don't be a jackass, or a pair of them.

The supras. One car can have more peak hp and still be slower than a car with a better powerband. That was the point, and the context of the statment WAS important. Now its a pissing match. However, it is possible and even likely that a 700hp car will beat a car with 500 or whatever. There, no need for timeslips, and no need to talk down to someone for not understanding what you were trying to say. You did ask the difference, not the simularity. It was a flawed question.

Sorry guys, but this had to come up sooner or later:

 

<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

Wow, what an answer... let's see, here's what we knew as FACTS from your question:

1- Both cars were Supras
2- One has 400 HP and the other has 700 HP

Now, I ask you, intelligent people of the forum, what can we POSSIBLY conclude from this ridiculous question? (Question is "What's the difference between a 400 rwhp and 700 rwhp Supra?)

Hmmm.... a few answers for AVboy:

1- The 700 HP Supra is black
2- The 400 HP Supra is silver
3- The 700 HP Supra is driven by a guy 5'10"
4- The 400 HP Supra is driven by a guy 5' 4"


<hr></blockquote>

WTF????

Your right 2k2MaximaRIP, I regreat I even respond to this numnuts. Once in while it would be "type ***" who's wired differently.

And you Hitman so dumb and immature that you can't really see the reason I asked that question.
And the reason I asked that question is to show you especially you that peak HP doesn't mean **** if you not utilizing it properly. I never said that Supra with 700whp cannot break 12s retard. There are numbers of Supra guys who run 10's with proper Engine Management and the right gearing.

You saying the 300 HP difference (between Supras) as the same way you saying its 20HP difference (between coupe and sedan) by simply subtracting the lowest number from highest. This is not how its work. Go ask on Supra board I see how long you'll last.

So shut or hole dumba$$ and learn something.

700 rwhp Supra with a big single = tons of lag, little power below 4000 rpm, extremely weak (relative term ) off the line, takes an 1/8th mile just to get solidly spooled up and in the powerband. Runs LIKE MAD and gains crazy amounts of speed in the last 1/8th mile with some ridiculous trap speeds.

400 rwhp Supra with OEM twins = little to no lag, solid power below 4k for strong launches but still not escaping the fact that it's a heavy car. Solid performance in the first 1/8th mile that blows away the other Supra while it's still trying to spool up that big laggy single. However, the smaller twins don't provide the top-end to pickup nearly as much speed in the last 1/8th mile. At the halfway point the 400 rwhp Supra is ahead, but sees that the 700 rwhp Supra behind him has FINALLY awoken the beast and that **** starts pulling like mad!

Net result?

Two Supras running 12's

1/4 mile races are won on the launch and the first 1/8th mile. Doing that well requires...

- Light weight
- Lots of torque
- The traction to handle it


Even though the 700 rwhp supra had a ton more peak horsepower, it couldn't make effective use of its powerband until already at half track. The 400 rwhp supra was able to make effective use of its power right off the line. So even though the 700 rwhp supra would trap a ton faster, it's not able to effectively utilize all the power. More is not always better.

Other info. The supra with the huge turbo and 700hp, it spooled up at the end and gained a crazy MPH. What this means is if you had geared the supra correctly, so there was no lag and it launched in its powerband, it could have had a MUCH lower time in the 1/4.

Other example:
HKS Twin GT2835 Hayabusa Killer
851 RWHP - 683 FT-LBS

Here is Darren Strunk's TurboImports.com/Performance-Motorsports, AKA the infamous "Walser" Supra, This car recently put down 851rwhp on a STOCK BOTTOM END running 2.0 bar and a 90 shot of NOS. At the track, it has run a 11.1 @ 141.6 mph on 275 Nittos running it's lower boost setting and No NOS. It is equipped with HKS 272 cams, Crower Valve springs and Ti Retainers, RC 850cc injectors, SX Fuel Pump, HKS Fuel rail, Greddy 3row FMIC, Greddy Type R BOV, TRD Twin-Disk Clutch, VPC, GCC, AVC-R, Apex-i Guages, etc.

851HP can't even get this guy 10's.....
I Repet again the PEAK HORSEPOWER DOES NOT MEAN **** if you not utilize properly.
ENOUGH SAID!!!!

As far as original topic - I provided the numbers and complete review is coming soon. I repeat, I'm trying to get as many facts as possible whereas you just talking ****. "coast down"? Why dont you buy G35 in the first place. Then go to any dyno shop pay your own$$$ and report back. I'd like to see what dyno shop will report the EXACT number for "loss" unless they remove engine, run dyno, put it back on and run it again with transmission to see a difference. Or better yet go ahead call any dyno shop and ask that question. I'd like to find out what they say to you. So, as a general rule the numbers for manual and autos are known. Since there is no hard data exist on the drivetrain "loss" its all speculation, however those 15-18% for manuals and 20-23% for auto is what being use go check on any forum.
















2004 G35s auto (bone stock)
-----------------------------------
2002 s/c Accord V6 auto
so far best 1/4 mile - 13.9@101.8
coming soon: custom internals, cams, performance auto tranny w/LSD

 

The powerband at the wheels of both the coupe and sedan, from what I've seen, looks pretty lenear. There is no real spike in hp except for in the autos which spike at lower RPM because of the TC. I've noticed that both cars use its powerband better than most cars because of the continuously-variable-timing and low end torque. I don't beleive that the Sedan is underrated because a 20hp difference in a 3300 + pound car would not cause a drastic drop in performance results/feel, thus the reason why the Sedan is almost as quick as the coupe. Even if you were to add 20 WHEEL hp to the Sedan and keep a relatively lenear powerband (which can be done as long as the engine is NA)the difference would be roughly 3 or 4 tenths of a second in the quarter mile.

Thus I think that the hp rating of both cars are consistent with what the performance results are telling us.


2003.5 5AT
Premium Package
Tire/Wheel Package
K&N Filter, Z-Tube, EGK

 

"Retard" "Numnuts" "STFU"- pretty childish guys....Thread Closed![img]/w3timages/icons/frown.gif[/img]


******AV6 and HITMAN stay away from each other*******
<font color=red>NO more warnings</font color=red>

<font color=green>EDIT: Darn, I wanted to close it...[img]/w3timages/icons/frown.gif[/img][img]/w3timages/icons/wink.gif[/img] -Geo</font color=green>

<font color=red>GSM</font color=red>
<font color=red>GSM</font color=red>
<font color=black>Silverstone Coupe</font color=black><P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by GeoBau on 01/20/04 12:45 PM.</EM></FONT></P>