Vortech FGC Special Pricing (not a Group Buy) :wink:
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Finiti,
There are 2 different camps regarding gauges. The "other" camp believes that it is VERY IMPORTANT to know exactly what your vehicle is doing at all times.
Example: I got fuel pressure, A/F and boost gauges...
Fuel Pressure - tells me if I'm having a fuel problem. Could be that a fuel pump is going bad, fuel filter is clogged, I'm low on fuel, etc...
Boost - tells me my belt might be slipping, tells me I might have a vacuum leak, etc...
Wideband A/F - tells me exactly how my car is running, allows me to see the gauges on the dyno then see them on the road. If any of these gauges starts to give different than normal readings it allows me to pull the car over before I grenade the engine and allows me to drive the car like a granny to prevent possible SERIOUS PROBLEMS from happening to my engine.
A very wise FI authority sent me a PM and told me that those w/o gauges will change their minds about not having them as soon as something goes wrong. Unfortunately, this usually is tied to a large dollar repair.
Have you heard the old saying... "Ignorance is bliss"? 
Plus, if you drop ~$4500 into a S/C then another $1000-$1500 for installation and another $200-$400 for a conservative tune, and $100 for the belt and plugs (plus tax on all of that) that all totals over $6k, what's another $800-$900 for gauges, gauge pod and install to finish off the job?
There are 2 different camps regarding gauges. The "other" camp believes that it is VERY IMPORTANT to know exactly what your vehicle is doing at all times.
Example: I got fuel pressure, A/F and boost gauges...
Fuel Pressure - tells me if I'm having a fuel problem. Could be that a fuel pump is going bad, fuel filter is clogged, I'm low on fuel, etc...
Boost - tells me my belt might be slipping, tells me I might have a vacuum leak, etc...
Wideband A/F - tells me exactly how my car is running, allows me to see the gauges on the dyno then see them on the road. If any of these gauges starts to give different than normal readings it allows me to pull the car over before I grenade the engine and allows me to drive the car like a granny to prevent possible SERIOUS PROBLEMS from happening to my engine.
A very wise FI authority sent me a PM and told me that those w/o gauges will change their minds about not having them as soon as something goes wrong. Unfortunately, this usually is tied to a large dollar repair.
Have you heard the old saying... "Ignorance is bliss"? Plus, if you drop ~$4500 into a S/C then another $1000-$1500 for installation and another $200-$400 for a conservative tune, and $100 for the belt and plugs (plus tax on all of that) that all totals over $6k, what's another $800-$900 for gauges, gauge pod and install to finish off the job?
Last edited by neffster; Jul 29, 2005 at 01:21 PM.
a.k.a. RANDYS_G
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Glen Rose, Texas
Originally Posted by neffster
Finiti,
There are 2 different camps regarding gauges. The "other" camp believes that it is VERY IMPORTANT to know exactly what your vehicle is doing at all times.
Example: I got fuel pressure, A/F and boost gauges...
Fuel Pressure - tells me if I'm having a fuel problem. Could be that a fuel pump is going bad, fuel filter is clogged, I'm low on fuel, etc...
Boost - tells me my belt might be slipping, tells me I might have a vacuum leak, etc...
Wideband A/F - tells me exactly how my car is running, allows me to see the gauges on the dyno then see them on the road. If any of these gauges starts to give different than normal readings it allows me to pull the car over before I grenade the engine and allows me to drive the car like a granny to prevent possible SERIOUS PROBLEMS from happening to my engine.
A very wise FI authority sent me a PM and told me that those w/o gauges will change their minds about not having them as soon as something goes wrong. Unfortunately, this usually is tied to a large dollar repair. Have you heard the old saying... "Ignorance is bliss"?
Plus, if you drop ~$4500 into a S/C then another $1000-$1500 for installation and another $200-$400 for a conservative tune, and $100 for the belt and plugs (plus tax on all of that) that all totals over $6k, what's another $800-$900 for gauges, gauge pod and install to finish off the job?
There are 2 different camps regarding gauges. The "other" camp believes that it is VERY IMPORTANT to know exactly what your vehicle is doing at all times.
Example: I got fuel pressure, A/F and boost gauges...
Fuel Pressure - tells me if I'm having a fuel problem. Could be that a fuel pump is going bad, fuel filter is clogged, I'm low on fuel, etc...
Boost - tells me my belt might be slipping, tells me I might have a vacuum leak, etc...
Wideband A/F - tells me exactly how my car is running, allows me to see the gauges on the dyno then see them on the road. If any of these gauges starts to give different than normal readings it allows me to pull the car over before I grenade the engine and allows me to drive the car like a granny to prevent possible SERIOUS PROBLEMS from happening to my engine.
A very wise FI authority sent me a PM and told me that those w/o gauges will change their minds about not having them as soon as something goes wrong. Unfortunately, this usually is tied to a large dollar repair.
Have you heard the old saying... "Ignorance is bliss"? Plus, if you drop ~$4500 into a S/C then another $1000-$1500 for installation and another $200-$400 for a conservative tune, and $100 for the belt and plugs (plus tax on all of that) that all totals over $6k, what's another $800-$900 for gauges, gauge pod and install to finish off the job?
what's another $800-$900 for gauges, gauge pod and install to finish off the job?
I think of myself as a decent place to get information from regarding gauges as I have owned an FI car before.. I had a LOOONG talk with my tuner in atlanta when I was building my turbo kit and we decided on Boost and Fuel Pressure. I feel like typing so, enjoy a shoot personal opinion/story of this.
When we first "finished" the install of my turbo kit, the car was idling fine, but the FMU wasn't kicking in to add fuel pressure. I knew this when I was driving because as soon as boost kicked in, fuel pressure barely moved. Had I done this without gauges, my motor would have been TOAST! Granted I am not a professional mechanic, nor do I even like to get dirty, but I am pretty mechanically inclined. So we did some troubleshooting and found the FMU had the fuel lines on backwards somehow; this is what happens when you take phone calls while working on fuel systems. Another issue that I came to discover was that if my car had around 1/4 tank of gas in it, fuel would cut out while boosting, causing the feeling of hitting a wall (luckily not detonating). I could easily watch this via the Fuel Pressure gauge and stay out of harms way until I could make it to a gas station; fyi this was an inherent problem with the maxima's in tank fuel pump design.
About 2 days after the install, my car started to sputter at idle and was barely reading 10hg's (i think thats the unit) in vacuum. Had I not had a boost gauge to show me this, I would have had no idea where to even start looking for it. I am sure I could have posted the symptons on some forum and someone would have helped me out, but the answer was right there. I think this problem ended up being a vacuum line didn't get secured and leaned against the downpipe and got melted, but I am not 100%. Another good thing about the boost gauge is that you can physically SEE how much boost your car is making. If you have never driven and FI car before, and you are supposed to hit 8psi, but are only hitting 5psi, you won't be able to tell a difference and you would go on about your day. Obviously if you dyno the car and see that the numbers are low you will figure this out, but why wait until you are all the way at a dyno to find this out.
I think for a turbo car EGT is a usefull gauge, however not entirely needed if you get the car tuned right away and keep it at those settings. I think an A/F gauge is okay, but with a fuel pressure gauge you should be good to go; you will know it is running rich when the pressure rises to 6kPa (or 80psi). These are simply my personal, unprofessional and biased opinions. I will say this: I built a turbo kit from scratch, installed it, had the car tuned and drove the car at 350+WHP without any issues whatsoever for a year.
[/end long winded explination and useless post]
Um, not true.. I drive my car 14.78 miles a day according to the formula of 5400 total miles divided by a year (365). That's about 450 miles on the car a month, that's a ton! I need to slow down on all this driving.
Speak for yourself money-bags!
When we first "finished" the install of my turbo kit, the car was idling fine, but the FMU wasn't kicking in to add fuel pressure. I knew this when I was driving because as soon as boost kicked in, fuel pressure barely moved. Had I done this without gauges, my motor would have been TOAST! Granted I am not a professional mechanic, nor do I even like to get dirty, but I am pretty mechanically inclined. So we did some troubleshooting and found the FMU had the fuel lines on backwards somehow; this is what happens when you take phone calls while working on fuel systems. Another issue that I came to discover was that if my car had around 1/4 tank of gas in it, fuel would cut out while boosting, causing the feeling of hitting a wall (luckily not detonating). I could easily watch this via the Fuel Pressure gauge and stay out of harms way until I could make it to a gas station; fyi this was an inherent problem with the maxima's in tank fuel pump design.
About 2 days after the install, my car started to sputter at idle and was barely reading 10hg's (i think thats the unit) in vacuum. Had I not had a boost gauge to show me this, I would have had no idea where to even start looking for it. I am sure I could have posted the symptons on some forum and someone would have helped me out, but the answer was right there. I think this problem ended up being a vacuum line didn't get secured and leaned against the downpipe and got melted, but I am not 100%. Another good thing about the boost gauge is that you can physically SEE how much boost your car is making. If you have never driven and FI car before, and you are supposed to hit 8psi, but are only hitting 5psi, you won't be able to tell a difference and you would go on about your day. Obviously if you dyno the car and see that the numbers are low you will figure this out, but why wait until you are all the way at a dyno to find this out.
I think for a turbo car EGT is a usefull gauge, however not entirely needed if you get the car tuned right away and keep it at those settings. I think an A/F gauge is okay, but with a fuel pressure gauge you should be good to go; you will know it is running rich when the pressure rises to 6kPa (or 80psi). These are simply my personal, unprofessional and biased opinions. I will say this: I built a turbo kit from scratch, installed it, had the car tuned and drove the car at 350+WHP without any issues whatsoever for a year.
[/end long winded explination and useless post]
Originally Posted by Finiti35
Good to know. If the person I have in mind agrees to do the install and if I can find a good tuner in SFL, I *might* jump on the bandwagon next year. Now Randy if you could only tell me what's a safe mileage to go FI ? Since people like me and Turbomaxima are too lazy to drive, I'll probably have 4-5K in another 6 months, I figured that's more than enough.
Originally Posted by neffster
what's another $800-$900 for gauges, gauge pod and install to finish off the job?
a.k.a. RANDYS_G
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,417
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From: Glen Rose, Texas
Originally Posted by turbomaxima
I think of myself as a decent place to get information from regarding gauges as I have owned an FI car before.. I had a LOOONG talk with my tuner in atlanta when I was building my turbo kit and we decided on Boost and Fuel Pressure. I feel like typing so, enjoy a shoot personal opinion/story of this.
When we first "finished" the install of my turbo kit, the car was idling fine, but the FMU wasn't kicking in to add fuel pressure. I knew this when I was driving because as soon as boost kicked in, fuel pressure barely moved. Had I done this without gauges, my motor would have been TOAST! Granted I am not a professional mechanic, nor do I even like to get dirty, but I am pretty mechanically inclined. So we did some troubleshooting and found the FMU had the fuel lines on backwards somehow; this is what happens when you take phone calls while working on fuel systems. Another issue that I came to discover was that if my car had around 1/4 tank of gas in it, fuel would cut out while boosting, causing the feeling of hitting a wall (luckily not detonating). I could easily watch this via the Fuel Pressure gauge and stay out of harms way until I could make it to a gas station; fyi this was an inherent problem with the maxima's in tank fuel pump design.
About 2 days after the install, my car started to sputter at idle and was barely reading 10hg's (i think thats the unit) in vacuum. Had I not had a boost gauge to show me this, I would have had no idea where to even start looking for it. I am sure I could have posted the symptons on some forum and someone would have helped me out, but the answer was right there. I think this problem ended up being a vacuum line didn't get secured and leaned against the downpipe and got melted, but I am not 100%. Another good thing about the boost gauge is that you can physically SEE how much boost your car is making. If you have never driven and FI car before, and you are supposed to hit 8psi, but are only hitting 5psi, you won't be able to tell a difference and you would go on about your day. Obviously if you dyno the car and see that the numbers are low you will figure this out, but why wait until you are all the way at a dyno to find this out.
I think for a turbo car EGT is a usefull gauge, however not entirely needed if you get the car tuned right away and keep it at those settings. I think an A/F gauge is okay, but with a fuel pressure gauge you should be good to go; you will know it is running rich when the pressure rises to 6kPa (or 80psi). These are simply my personal, unprofessional and biased opinions. I will say this: I built a turbo kit from scratch, installed it, had the car tuned and drove the car at 350+WHP without any issues whatsoever for a year.
[/end long winded explination and useless post]
Um, not true.. I drive my car 14.78 miles a day according to the formula of 5400 total miles divided by a year (365). That's about 450 miles on the car a month, that's a ton! I need to slow down on all this driving.
Speak for yourself money-bags!
When we first "finished" the install of my turbo kit, the car was idling fine, but the FMU wasn't kicking in to add fuel pressure. I knew this when I was driving because as soon as boost kicked in, fuel pressure barely moved. Had I done this without gauges, my motor would have been TOAST! Granted I am not a professional mechanic, nor do I even like to get dirty, but I am pretty mechanically inclined. So we did some troubleshooting and found the FMU had the fuel lines on backwards somehow; this is what happens when you take phone calls while working on fuel systems. Another issue that I came to discover was that if my car had around 1/4 tank of gas in it, fuel would cut out while boosting, causing the feeling of hitting a wall (luckily not detonating). I could easily watch this via the Fuel Pressure gauge and stay out of harms way until I could make it to a gas station; fyi this was an inherent problem with the maxima's in tank fuel pump design.
About 2 days after the install, my car started to sputter at idle and was barely reading 10hg's (i think thats the unit) in vacuum. Had I not had a boost gauge to show me this, I would have had no idea where to even start looking for it. I am sure I could have posted the symptons on some forum and someone would have helped me out, but the answer was right there. I think this problem ended up being a vacuum line didn't get secured and leaned against the downpipe and got melted, but I am not 100%. Another good thing about the boost gauge is that you can physically SEE how much boost your car is making. If you have never driven and FI car before, and you are supposed to hit 8psi, but are only hitting 5psi, you won't be able to tell a difference and you would go on about your day. Obviously if you dyno the car and see that the numbers are low you will figure this out, but why wait until you are all the way at a dyno to find this out.
I think for a turbo car EGT is a usefull gauge, however not entirely needed if you get the car tuned right away and keep it at those settings. I think an A/F gauge is okay, but with a fuel pressure gauge you should be good to go; you will know it is running rich when the pressure rises to 6kPa (or 80psi). These are simply my personal, unprofessional and biased opinions. I will say this: I built a turbo kit from scratch, installed it, had the car tuned and drove the car at 350+WHP without any issues whatsoever for a year.
[/end long winded explination and useless post]
Um, not true.. I drive my car 14.78 miles a day according to the formula of 5400 total miles divided by a year (365). That's about 450 miles on the car a month, that's a ton! I need to slow down on all this driving.
Speak for yourself money-bags!
a.k.a. RANDYS_G
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,417
Likes: 0
From: Glen Rose, Texas
Originally Posted by escobar929
good thing i drive it like i stole it, since i have just over 7k. Is syn oil a must w/ a vortech?
Originally Posted by Randys_G
Sounds like you needed a better tuner to begin with!
I was the only maxima over 350whp to not blow anything besides axles.
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Originally Posted by Randys_G
Although I agree with the reasons mentioned above as to why you'd want gauges, the fact is, all of the people that have blown a motor couldn't have stopped (and didn't stop it) and all had gauges. Examples: Gurgen, Booger, KPeirsen(sp?) and many others over on my350z. When you LEAN out and shoot a 16:1 ratio, it happens very quickly and without warning. Fuel Pressure is probably the strongest argument because we have an AUX fuel pump and if something goes wrong with that, you'd want to know. Again, if something dramatic DID happen, it'd happen very quickly and without warning. As far as boost goes, the GATES belt fixes the belt slippage issue and therefore makes the boost gauge FOR SHOW ONLY. My decision to not go with gauges was not based on ignorance nor cost, but on economics. I have proven for the last 11,000 (very hard) miles that gauges are not necessary. It's money saved to upgrade your hoses, get an oil catch can and cooler and bunch of other funtional things.
). Also, the oil cooler would be nice, but I've been told that adding an oil pan spacer is about as functional as an oil cooler (adds another quart of oil). I *might* install the spacer during the S/C install, I'm still reading up on this at the present time. I'm trying to figure out how well our cars temperature gauge relates to oil temperature.Also, I've read that the oil cooler doesn't attach directly where it normally would due to having the blower/innercooler in the way, thus making the installer be a little more creative. I'm not sure I need any "creativity" with my S/C install. I just want to keep it simple & straight forward.
Last edited by neffster; Jul 29, 2005 at 03:26 PM.
Originally Posted by neffster
Well I did buy the oil catch can and it will be installed with the S/C. (I even bought it before you posted ). Also, the oil cooler would be nice, but I've been told that adding an oil pan spacer is about as functional as an oil cooler (adds another quart of oil). I *might* install the spacer during the S/C install, I'm still reading up on this at the present time. I'm trying to figure out how well our cars temperature gauge relates to oil temperature.
). Also, the oil cooler would be nice, but I've been told that adding an oil pan spacer is about as functional as an oil cooler (adds another quart of oil). I *might* install the spacer during the S/C install, I'm still reading up on this at the present time. I'm trying to figure out how well our cars temperature gauge relates to oil temperature.
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Actually I asked the question about the oil catch can and was told that it is probably not warranted (especially due to the fact that I probably won't even see 8psi with the Crawford Package) but if I did have any blow by it would do the trick. The price is under $100 and whenever someone mentions "DETONATION" I get a little chicken... 
As far as the oil cooler, I'm still researching. The cost isn't the issue to me, it's the installation. Adding another quart of oil with the spacer may help keep the temps down, but how much when compared to the oil cooler and is it really needed?
As far as the oil cooler, I'm still researching. The cost isn't the issue to me, it's the installation. Adding another quart of oil with the spacer may help keep the temps down, but how much when compared to the oil cooler and is it really needed?
All this F/I talk is depressing. I decided to do the smart thing and pay off my car for the rest of this year. That way, I can start saving money now until Christmas to decide which way I want to go with the car.
a.k.a. RANDYS_G
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 6,417
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From: Glen Rose, Texas
Originally Posted by neffster
Well I did buy the oil catch can and it will be installed with the S/C. (I even bought it before you posted ). Also, the oil cooler would be nice, but I've been told that adding an oil pan spacer is about as functional as an oil cooler (adds another quart of oil). I *might* install the spacer during the S/C install, I'm still reading up on this at the present time. I'm trying to figure out how well our cars temperature gauge relates to oil temperature.
Also, I've read that the oil cooler doesn't attach directly where it normally would due to having the blower/innercooler in the way, thus making the installer be a little more creative. I'm not sure I need any "creativity" with my S/C install. I just want to keep it simple & straight forward.
). Also, the oil cooler would be nice, but I've been told that adding an oil pan spacer is about as functional as an oil cooler (adds another quart of oil). I *might* install the spacer during the S/C install, I'm still reading up on this at the present time. I'm trying to figure out how well our cars temperature gauge relates to oil temperature.Also, I've read that the oil cooler doesn't attach directly where it normally would due to having the blower/innercooler in the way, thus making the installer be a little more creative. I'm not sure I need any "creativity" with my S/C install. I just want to keep it simple & straight forward.
Originally Posted by Randys_G
beware of the oil pan spacer...with a lower car, it exposes your oil pan dangerously close to the ground.