Gurgen, we all respect your opinions on this board, but I think it's a little too early to put JWT's kit down yet. Wait til it's finally released and we have more answers, and then it would be fair to comment on everything. JWT's kit was dynoed in the mag at 7.8 psi, according to the mag, and the kit will be released at 6.8psi. Not much of a difference there. JWT's kit dynoed the highest also, and had the most torque. APS' kit they said was dynoed at 8psi and they didn't know what the kit is released at. Peter will never comment on what the APS kit comes set at. I've asked him many times and he dances around the question. I hear people saying they get 8psi, 9psi, 9.5 and some even say 10psi. It all depends on what they have on their car. Again, without having the JWT kit installed on somebody's car we can't yet compare the two kits. I haven't seen the kit in person yet, but maybe you have. From what I heard, the JWT fits like OEM, which APS doesn't quite meet that standard. I think the APS is a great kit, so don't think I'm an APS basher, I'm just saying that we don't have much to compare yet. We do know that the JWT has smaller turbos like you said, so for people who are not looking to build up their engines and are happy with 450whp the most, the JWT kit is the best kit for you. Smaller turbos like you said will spool up faster. I fall into this category. I've read too many horror stories of people even with built engines, some of them unfortunately yours, and I don't want to spend the money for a project that will never end. Also, having all this power gets you nowhere if you can't put the power to the ground. What good is it, except for bragging rights, is it to have 500whp? That is a deathtrap waiting to happen. When I take off now with my N/A G my back slides out and it scares the **** out of me. From what I have heard, the JWT kit puts down the right power in the right places for the stock engine to make it a hell of a rush when boosting and yet runs like stock when not boosting. Having the stock injectors will make it idle better too. SportZ's 3 judges all said that if Nissan had made a 350z or G35 twin turbo, the JWT kit is what the kit would be like. I also wanted to point out that you said the JWT uses the Split Second box for tuning and that's not the best system. From what I have heard, and from what the mag says, JWT has their own FMU controlling everything. They are not using the SS box. As far as Nissan's go, JWT has the most respected name for their work on them. So let's wait and see what their final product shows us. You can get more power out of the other kits, but my opinion is that the JWT will run the best and smoothest at the power it's meant to be run at. I'm very excited about this kit.

 

Not really taking the result of shootout to accurate. Cars that was suppose to be tested, not every car showed-up with an empty tank of gas, so no proof everyone had actual pump gas to begin with. The HP#'s JWT got was not with a stock kit that is offered when its released. JWT kit is only suppose to get around 310rhwp. Also each car tested had different mods as well. IMO, only thing I like about the JWT is that it will be carb cert. and looks oem. Once JWT kits are released, bet guys will start messing with it or modify it, add bigger injectors, etc., then you'll see problems like you see with other kits. I remember hearing APS kit was the perfect kit, now with more kits being released, starting to see some issues with that kit was well. Other kits can be just as reliable or safe by keeping HP down and at stock boost, but once they feel that rush, some will want more HP, then add other mods, up the boost, then the problems begin. Reason why STillen stage 2 is most reliable ( no blown engines ), cause its only around 310rwhp, and you cannot tune it or mess with boost.

 

Who told you that the JWT is going to be 310whp? Where did you get that information? I spoke to JWT several times and they said it will be around 350whp. They didn't want to guarantee any final numbers but they did say that it won't be less than 400hp which is 330whp. So 330-350whp is what to be expected from this kit. That's very close to what the APS kit is out of the box. I am hearing around 360whp for the APS on a bone stock engine. Every kit is ofcourse going to have it's drawbacks. It seems that everybody who bought the APS kit was building their engines for high horse power and then people realized that they couldn't raise the boost passed 10psi. Now they're working on fixing that problem with new actuators I believe. I don't see how the JWT kit had 430hp at 430lbs of torque at 7.8 psi and the kit will only be released at 1psi lower and you think it will have such low hp. Only time will tell I guess. I used to be on the APS bandwagon too but now I'm starting to realize that Peter is just a very good salesman and he could make anything sound good. So I want to see all my choices before I pick the kit I'm going with. What psi is the APS set at out of the box on a bone stock engine?

 

Im in San Diego, and JWT office is about 25mins.from me. Ive talked with Ben several times. They stated, they are HOPING or SHOOTING to get around 400hp, so yes that would be roughly around 330rwhp. In order to get the carb.eo# they must stick with the stock injectors, so from what've heard its very unlikely you'd get close to 400hp. So will see when its all in done where the #'s end up, my feeling is low 300's rwhp. IMO, its really not close to compare APS TT to JWT TT, APS stock kit has better parts, Garret dual ball-bearing turbos, shielded CAS, larger injectors, etc. JWT kit is basically what an OEM stock kit would look like, and may end-up being more reliable due to lower HP#'s on stock kit. Also from what Ive heard, JWTs piggy back is basically their version of the split 2nd box. ... Funny, I do agree with you about Peter being a good salesman. Hell, he can probably persuade me to buy a used Yogo.

 

If what you're saying is true, then what's with the numbers in the SportZ mag? I can see the numbers being slightly off but come on, it can't be that far off. If the stock injectors have to be there to pass CARB than how does APS plan on passing? Somebody, I believe Gurgen, said it's not true that the stock injectors have to be there. It doesn't make any sense to me that JWT would send a car to SportZ pushing all this power when the kit being released will be nowhere near it. It would make them look bad if they did that. Obviously the kit can perform since it did so for the magazine. JWT has dual ball-bearing Garrett turbo's too.

 

Yeah, dont rely on the magazine. Trust me, its very important for JWT to get those carb eo#'s, even to sacrifice some HP#'s. They want the Calif. market as well as other states that require carb approval. JWT will offer the upgraded fuel package for guys that want higher HP, so would assume that was on the car tested. Honestly, I highly doubt APS will get carb eo, being they are from Australia, it might be difficult, unless the come out with a carb approved TT package.

 

Okay, I just called JWT again and coincidentally talked to Ben. I told him that I heard rumors that it will be around 310whp and asked if that was true. He chuckled and said "No, no, no 310 is too low. We're shooting for roughly 350whp." I asked how long it will be before the kit is released and he said the same excuse that they were waiting for CARB. Then he said hold on a minute and I'll see if I can find out more of a date for you. He came back and said he was told that if the CARB cert doesn't come back soon, that they are going to release the kit without the CARB cert and it will be a tuner kit.

 

There you go. Unless you see actual dyno#'s, as they stated its what they're shooting for #'s. Without that carb eo, no need for me to consider it. Oh well. Also as I mentioned on another thread, that first release of kits will only work on '03 Zs and Gs, manual only.

 

Here is the magazine I was browsing through at the bookstore just the other day.

http://shop.roadandtrack.com/index.a...ROD&ProdID=315

It tests many tuner Z's with some of these kits you guys are talking about including JWT, Greddy, Vortech, Stillen....and a few others I don't remember.

What was interesting was that the 330hp 'ish Vortech Z laid down a nice 13.0 at 110mph which was tied for the best time in the 1/4mile. The other best time was a 400hp + Greddy TT that laid down the exact same time. They were commenting on how the big torque producing Turbos were having a heck of a time getting traction while the Vortech's Centifugal setup acted like some kind of traction control with the way it's power comes on so late.

You'll have to find the issue and read it for yourself to find out what the kits were along with dyno plots and times.

Bottomline, each type of FI has its own advantages for different applications.

If you asked me which I would drive daily, I would agree that, for the street, a turbo feels better than a supercharger, but that's just my preference. Performance wise, it's whole other debate. The mag was describing how more difficult it was to drive at the limit with the Turbo Z's vs the Vortech.

Just for kicks, here's an interesting note.
At the very end of the article, they interview a track driver with an NA Z with just suspension mods. His Z posted a track time a whole second quicker than all of the boosted Z's on the same track.

 

I hope no one regrets going with the Vortech SC; I plan on getting the kit soon. I am not out to make 400+hp numbers on the dyno. I just want a reliable, turn key, daily driven, FI 5AT G. I really like Randy's setup and after 10k miles it seems to be holding up quite well.

 

Hey Guys.... some nice posts and it seems to shape up as a good discussion. I will reply to this when i get more time tonight after work. Cheers

P.S.

 

I just turned over 4,000 miles on mine and for some reason I never had belt dust or any shavings on or around the filter and belts. Also I have not had to tighten the belt yet I would say that the vortech kit is as safe as any kit I have seen out there.

 

Dont know if you guys have heard . I dont know the story , but a Turbonetic ST blew a motor a month or two back . The guy just posted it at 350Z . You take a risk no matter what FI kit you get . With the Vortech [ less trq. ] it's a less of a risk if kept safely tuned

 

NO wiser words have been spoken....

Just goes to show it's really the driver that matters at the track, and of course if it's a twistie track, FI/raw torque makes much less difference than on straight track (relatively). If Clint (THX723) drives my car (assuming it will be properly tuned one of these days), i promise you that he will be faster than anyone in that class. The guy is amazing...

I do not mean to put the kit down... As I ahve said to many people from these boards in private conversations, if I were buying today, I would only consider JWT and APS, and would in fact choose APS (to be sure); I would consider PE only under special circumstances. But my decision making process is not influenced by some bias, but by facts; you saw my reasoning above...that's exactly what i thought through when thinking about this kit. No injectors, hot air induction system.. both facts. Do you think an OEM would ever release the kit by overpressurizing injectors beyond what tey were designed to do...NEVER. The same is probably (matter of opinion) true for the air induction system, however, I'd probably reserve final judgement until i see it on the car, to see if they have any kind of baffling to guide colder air to the cylinder. But if it's anything like the pop-charger, the temps will be higher.

True, we can't completely compare. But we can talk about the components of the kit and what that means. By the same token, how in the world can we know how a kit fits if it hasn't been released yet? it's not that it fits like OEM, is that some of it's design is very proper, like the pre-turbo MAF, and the turbos are smaller themselves, which gives it it's oem-ike torque curve. On the other hand, I have NEVER heard from anyone that the APS kit does not fit. Being hard to install (as any TT kit) is different from fitment. In fact, from what I have heard, APS fits VERY well. If you read somethign i haven't, please let me know, I will retract my statement. On the other hand, the Greddy is the kit that's infamous with regard to fitment issues.

Very true.. THE JWT seems to have a very good torque curve, but at hte expense of upgradeability. Now, whether most people want to or not rebuild their engienes is another question. But it's still a valid point for comparison.

You can put 500whp to the ground, not very well though. It is somewhat above this range when it becomes a major issue. And as far as a death trap, a 400whp car will lose traction and become a deathtrap just as quickly as a 500whp car.

I am always excited to see a new kit, and what it can do to our beatiful and capable cars. Te jury is still out on what the JWT kt can and can't do. However, it is NOT a kit for the purists (me included); yes, this statement is a matter of opinion somewhat. Is the JWT setup good enough and adequately safe and potent? Absolutely (opinion). Is it how Nissan would do it? Not entirely, no (again, opinion). Is APS how Nissan would do a TT setup for our cars? No not entirely, but (in my opinion) far closer than JWT's desgin, faaaar closer.

Moral of the story? Decide what you want given that facts outlined here in this thread...whcih is SO off topic that I am really ashamed , sorry G35RIDER... that's really all i can say and still be objective. But, pelase do not htink that I am bashing JWT..they ARE perhaps the most highly respected Nissan tuner, and they do have certain engineering objectives, just like Nissan did when thye built our cars. Decide which objectives are more in line with yours, I guess that's the answer. Is reputation everything? No. I think it's more important to ask questions of experts and read as much about it as possible..which is what i have been doing for months now.

 

Moved my comments to the JWT TT Thread as they are related to Sport Z Magazine's Turbo Shootout, Turbochargers tested and the JWT TT System - not Vortech Superchargers.