Crashed car due to camber kit. Pics
Originally Posted by Deang35c6
A very smart suspension Guru on here and my350z.com said adjusting camber by the radius rods aka camber rods is a big no no. He mentioned something along the lines of changing the geometry of the rear suspension when its done. Is it enough to cause the rod to break? I don't know, but I had my rear camber adjusted using the SPC camber bolts.
Registered User
iTrader: (10)
Joined: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,942
Likes: 7
From: PNW in Washington
6MT Coupe
Originally Posted by giddyup69
tig welding is only as effective as the experience and knowledge of the welder. i've seen many tig welds fail. i'm in the stainless steel business and our company is authorized for high pressure applications (boiler's/pressure vessels). this is the end of my commercial. 
Originally Posted by 6969g35
the kinetix are tig welded
very strong http://www.advantagefabricatedmetals...g-welding.html
can not believe they came apart WOW
the main thing is that you are ok...
very strong http://www.advantagefabricatedmetals...g-welding.html
can not believe they came apart WOW
the main thing is that you are ok...
A weld is only as good as the welders knowledge and/or experience, no matter what type of welding or material your using.
TIG welding is one of the hardest methods to master, imo. If it's not done correctly, the weld will fail.
Thread Starter
|
Registered User
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 375
Likes: 1
From: corona
finally got some pics of the camber kit under the car.
http://www.putfile.com/toptoneone/images/52211
http://www.putfile.com/toptoneone/images/52211
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
Originally Posted by Gilley
The SPC bolts adjust toe. SPC makes arms that adjust camber.
Here's a quote from a member on my350z.com who had a Kinetix camber arm break as well, but he has a theory.
Brian-I have both Kinetix Camber/traction arms AND the SPC Eccentric bolts for camber/toe on my car. For some reason with just the Kinetix set-up my car had horrible camber-it was worse than -2.4 degrees in the rear. at it sprevious ride height setting which was way low. I then added the SPC set-up which is cheaper btw, and it brought it to -1.9 degrees rear camber. I ran the Kinetix stuff for 20K+ miles, and adjusting the traction/toe arm is not the proper way to adjust toe. I think over time it did something to make my suspension get out of alignment even worse. Actually I have never told anybody this, but I had a Kinetix Traction rod break as I drove down the highway no potholes or anything involved! It seemed the way the traction rod was adjusted it put too much stress on my setup-this is why I set it back some, and used the SPC kit to help get it acceptable. Anyways sorry for ramblin on, but Ive had my car aligned 5X now, Ive had camber as bad as -4.3 degrees to my now -1.8/1.9. Also over time with just the Kinetix stuff only on my car my camber would slowly go negative again.
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
i wouldnt blame the welding alone. just look at that crap.. u weld thin pieces of aluminum together and excpect it to hold?
u know how much bending, stress, etc are put on that arm? if its installed incorectly and bends because of it, then its **** to begin with. they should of made it with a stronger, thicker material, not a pieace of aluminum tabs they stole from shop class.
the product is shlt.... just look at it. (looks homemade and cheap as hell)
$369.99
Thin aluminum slabs welding to some rods... design sucks. material sucks. = POS.
Now compare it to a well designed arm. Made in Japan, not some HS kids in shop class.
$395.00
$25 difference...... For your life, for your car, for your family, spend the extra $25 man!
u know how much bending, stress, etc are put on that arm? if its installed incorectly and bends because of it, then its **** to begin with. they should of made it with a stronger, thicker material, not a pieace of aluminum tabs they stole from shop class.
the product is shlt.... just look at it. (looks homemade and cheap as hell)
$369.99 Thin aluminum slabs welding to some rods... design sucks. material sucks. = POS.
Now compare it to a well designed arm. Made in Japan, not some HS kids in shop class.
$395.00
$25 difference...... For your life, for your car, for your family, spend the extra $25 man!
Last edited by cnaman; Nov 21, 2006 at 01:55 AM.
Registered User
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 1,134
Likes: 0
From: San Diego
cnaman,
In an effort to make this thread meaningful to the forum, we should stick to what's relevant. What you posted is NOT the part that broke on his car. Unlike the radius/camber rods, I've never heard a case of any aftermarket control arm breaking. I'm trying to determine if the rod broke due to bad welds or improper toe adjustment which place too much stress on the part in question.
Top,
Do you have the wheel alignment print out? It would tell you how much toe you started with and how much they adjusted it to get it within specs. The question still remains exactly how they adjusted toe.
In an effort to make this thread meaningful to the forum, we should stick to what's relevant. What you posted is NOT the part that broke on his car. Unlike the radius/camber rods, I've never heard a case of any aftermarket control arm breaking. I'm trying to determine if the rod broke due to bad welds or improper toe adjustment which place too much stress on the part in question.
Top,
Do you have the wheel alignment print out? It would tell you how much toe you started with and how much they adjusted it to get it within specs. The question still remains exactly how they adjusted toe.
Originally Posted by Deang35c6
cnaman,
In an effort to make this thread meaningful to the forum, we should stick to what's relevant. What you posted is NOT the part that broke on his car. Unlike the radius/camber rods, I've never heard a case of any aftermarket control arm breaking. I'm trying to determine if the rod broke due to bad welds or improper toe adjustment which place too much stress on the part in question.
Top,
Do you have the wheel alignment print out? It would tell you how much toe you started with and how much they adjusted it to get it within specs. The question still remains exactly how they adjusted toe.
In an effort to make this thread meaningful to the forum, we should stick to what's relevant. What you posted is NOT the part that broke on his car. Unlike the radius/camber rods, I've never heard a case of any aftermarket control arm breaking. I'm trying to determine if the rod broke due to bad welds or improper toe adjustment which place too much stress on the part in question.
Top,
Do you have the wheel alignment print out? It would tell you how much toe you started with and how much they adjusted it to get it within specs. The question still remains exactly how they adjusted toe.
Totally true. Looks to me like it pulled the threads out???? As for the kinetix front uppers they need more support than the steel that runs from the tubing to the heim joint out on the end. GOOD LUCK
Registered User
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Hi , this is Jamison with Kinetix Racing
First off, I am VERY glad to hear evweryone is in good health
sorry we havent been around the forum community lately, please read the entire post.
One of our dealers brought this thread to our attention so I thought I would post and respond to concerns/explanations/etc.
anyone can email us directly at jamisonl@msn.com
I looked at this thread a few days ago and could not quite figure out possible causes for failure. We thought if it was just a strength issue that it would not have just "gave" way while driving in a straight line. Also we have over 400 sets of these rear arms out, and strength is never an issue.
In all honesty we had (3) sets of "traction" arms come back for cracked welds, this was over a year ago, when our first generation arms were made from stainless. We switched from stainless to alloy steel for extra strengh, while also increasing the gauge of material.
We have strength tested our arms vs. the factory arms with no problems.
We have people road racing and drag racing with our arms for over 2 years now with no problems. However , anything is possible and I certainly am not saying "its not our fault"
When the undercar pictures were posted, I was surprised to find that it was in fact the CAMBER arm that broke, NOT the TRACTION arm. We have even seen a stress crack on a single camber arm, much less a total failure where BOTH ends of the arms seperated!!
The CAMBER arm does not see nearly the stress of the traction arms which hold caster and constantly feel the tugging of the drive wheels. The camber arm is simply an alignment arm, much like the front a-arms.
** When lookign at the traction arm that is still installed , this where I see the potential prolem. The arm is FULLY extended, it looks like maybe 1.5" to 2" longer than factory!! This has changed the entire suspension considerably. This would put huge amounts of strain on the camber arm, and it would be constant strain that would be amplified when driving, bumps, corners, etc.
** this is partially our fault! , The traction arms really should not be adjusted more than approx .375" longer or shorter than the factory arms, and we often shorten them about .25" . However , we do not include installation instructions for our arms. This is our fault. We should have at least included some "guidelines" for installation. We just never imagined anyone extending the arms out THAT far.
** We have now seen people posting pictures regarding our a-arms installed. Some of these arms are UPSIDE DOWN!! We have now seen arms installed by nissan dealerships, installed upside down !!. Of course we are now horrified at potential problems with arms because we had no clue so many of our products were installed this way.
** the front a-arm (like the camber arm) is an alignment arm. Hold one of the facotyr a-arms in your hand and you will see what I mean. They are not built for strength, because they simply align the wheel, they dont hold the weight of the suspension. When the arm is installed upside down, or without the correct washers, the arm will contact the spindle as it travels up, this will bend the arm. It would not matter how strong we made the arm. If the arm hits the spindle, the entire weight of the car will be trying to bend the arm to make room for the spindle.
** when installed correctly, this is NEVER a problem.
** a-arms should be installed with the grease caps pointing down , with the ball joint offset towards the rear of the car. ( again, our fault ebcause we dont include instructions)
** traction arms should not be extended or shortened more than .375" from factory length
** WE will be shortly including installation "guidelines" for the rear arms, as well as labelling the front arms for orientation.
** please check and make sure your a-arms are not upside down, or your traction arms are extended too long. If you have more than .5" of thread on EACH side of the center turnbuckle, you may want to shorten it a bit.
**please email me if you have any concerns or questions!! We were unaware of installation problems until now !! We want to improve products and reliability!!
Jamison ( I will be monitoring this thread for a short while)
First off, I am VERY glad to hear evweryone is in good health
sorry we havent been around the forum community lately, please read the entire post.
One of our dealers brought this thread to our attention so I thought I would post and respond to concerns/explanations/etc.
anyone can email us directly at jamisonl@msn.com
I looked at this thread a few days ago and could not quite figure out possible causes for failure. We thought if it was just a strength issue that it would not have just "gave" way while driving in a straight line. Also we have over 400 sets of these rear arms out, and strength is never an issue.
In all honesty we had (3) sets of "traction" arms come back for cracked welds, this was over a year ago, when our first generation arms were made from stainless. We switched from stainless to alloy steel for extra strengh, while also increasing the gauge of material.
We have strength tested our arms vs. the factory arms with no problems.
We have people road racing and drag racing with our arms for over 2 years now with no problems. However , anything is possible and I certainly am not saying "its not our fault"
When the undercar pictures were posted, I was surprised to find that it was in fact the CAMBER arm that broke, NOT the TRACTION arm. We have even seen a stress crack on a single camber arm, much less a total failure where BOTH ends of the arms seperated!!
The CAMBER arm does not see nearly the stress of the traction arms which hold caster and constantly feel the tugging of the drive wheels. The camber arm is simply an alignment arm, much like the front a-arms.
** When lookign at the traction arm that is still installed , this where I see the potential prolem. The arm is FULLY extended, it looks like maybe 1.5" to 2" longer than factory!! This has changed the entire suspension considerably. This would put huge amounts of strain on the camber arm, and it would be constant strain that would be amplified when driving, bumps, corners, etc.
** this is partially our fault! , The traction arms really should not be adjusted more than approx .375" longer or shorter than the factory arms, and we often shorten them about .25" . However , we do not include installation instructions for our arms. This is our fault. We should have at least included some "guidelines" for installation. We just never imagined anyone extending the arms out THAT far.
** We have now seen people posting pictures regarding our a-arms installed. Some of these arms are UPSIDE DOWN!! We have now seen arms installed by nissan dealerships, installed upside down !!. Of course we are now horrified at potential problems with arms because we had no clue so many of our products were installed this way.
** the front a-arm (like the camber arm) is an alignment arm. Hold one of the facotyr a-arms in your hand and you will see what I mean. They are not built for strength, because they simply align the wheel, they dont hold the weight of the suspension. When the arm is installed upside down, or without the correct washers, the arm will contact the spindle as it travels up, this will bend the arm. It would not matter how strong we made the arm. If the arm hits the spindle, the entire weight of the car will be trying to bend the arm to make room for the spindle.
** when installed correctly, this is NEVER a problem.
** a-arms should be installed with the grease caps pointing down , with the ball joint offset towards the rear of the car. ( again, our fault ebcause we dont include instructions)
** traction arms should not be extended or shortened more than .375" from factory length
** WE will be shortly including installation "guidelines" for the rear arms, as well as labelling the front arms for orientation.
** please check and make sure your a-arms are not upside down, or your traction arms are extended too long. If you have more than .5" of thread on EACH side of the center turnbuckle, you may want to shorten it a bit.
**please email me if you have any concerns or questions!! We were unaware of installation problems until now !! We want to improve products and reliability!!
Jamison ( I will be monitoring this thread for a short while)
Registered User
Joined: Aug 2005
Posts: 422
Likes: 0
i would stick with a brand name products. and ones that were actually designed, tested proven..
just looking at the kinetix one, it just looks cheap to me. alloy rods welded onto some flat metal peice and then some...
just look cheap to me.... i wouldnt put that on my infinit... maybe on a 300 pound CRX... but i doubt the product would even hold on that light car.
just looking at the kinetix one, it just looks cheap to me. alloy rods welded onto some flat metal peice and then some...
just look cheap to me.... i wouldnt put that on my infinit... maybe on a 300 pound CRX... but i doubt the product would even hold on that light car.
Registered User
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 35
Likes: 0
From: CA socal
Originally Posted by cnaman
Now compare it to a well designed arm. Made in Japan, not some HS kids in shop class.
$395.00
$25 difference...... For your life, for your car, for your family, spend the extra $25 man!
$395.00
$25 difference...... For your life, for your car, for your family, spend the extra $25 man!