<blockquote><font class="small">In reply to:</font><hr>

BTW, no one really care about grammer over the net...

<hr></blockquote>

Uh, reading your posts is difficult, at best. If you took a moment to actually type your posts in a more coherent manner, I might even understand what exactly you're trying to say.

From what I gather, the point is that the driver of the AT, regardless of the gear his tranny was in, would just floor the accelerator pedal, which of course would cause a downshift. So the 3rd gear comparison doesn't matter anyway.

 

oh yeah one thing, tranny won't downshift in MM mode no matter how hard you press gas pedal(unless the speed is decreasing)... maybe i wrote badly i reread my previous posts and i'll agree with you guys haha.. let me restate my thought in super short version...
from a roll AT vs MT starting at 30mph
AT is in 2nd gear VS. MT is in 3rd gear again both at 30MPH..
do you think MT can keep up with AT even though MT is in wrong gear?
because i'm not.. not because i have AT but after studying gear ratios and hp, tq in certain rpms it's impossible... again around 160hp at the wheel at 4400rpm(2nd gear) vs. around 90hp at 2100rpm(3rd gear).. and remember since AT g is in "correct gear" which 2nd gear will climb up its rpm like silky smooth while 3rd gear in MT struggling to move to sweet spots(4k+ rpm) i'm pretty sure 6MT needs around 60MPH to be in around 4k rpm in 3rd gear... which means 6MT needs to increase 30 more miles in order to be in the sweet spot of 3rd gear... but since 6MT is in wrong gear, it take quite some time to increase 30miles... and i'm sure by the time 6MT increases 30mph(so at 60mph) AT g will be in upper 80s...

 

oh yeah BTW it's not pissing contest
i'll shut my mouth as soon as somone correct my statement with proper explanations... i'm trying to learn!!!
BTW I'm sorry BMW3TOG35C about namecalling and all the comments i made might offended you... i'm just trying to learn that's all.. you know young people are rude when someone don't agree with them..

 

The conclusion is: If both manual and auto drivers have average skills, the AT will wins. But if both are experts in racing, the MT will win. But the real question is, how many experts manual drivers there are on the street? Of course MT will have more capacity in term of acceleration.(not a lot of manual driver can shift that good though) But i bet 6 out of 10 manual drivers can't shift good enough to beat an AT on the street.

So the answer to this topic is: under equal circumstances, if both drivers are newbie, AT will win. If both are average skills driver, then maybe a tie. If both are experts, then MT wins. But from what i seen, there are more newbie MT drivers compare to experts racers.

 

Please explain why anyone should care which "newbie" wins...

 

Please someone..close this thread.

 

Yeah, no body really care don't we? i'm stating that the fact many MT drivers can't beat AT even though MT is supposely slightly faster than the AT as you stated "tested by EXPERTS drivers". By all mean, those stats on car magazine are tested by drivers who "REALLY" knows how to drive MT good. I'm here to answer the question above, regardless if someone care about it or not. By all mean, why would we care if auto or manual is faster? I already said, by theory, 6MT is faster. In real life, 6 out of 10 of MT will be slower due to that 0.3 sec difference is for those who really can drive manual good. This not happen to G35, it happens to every cars. I've known enough people who drive the new manual WRX and can't even beat the 325i auto. Even if it's an average manual driver against AT, it'd be still tied the most. those 0.3 sec difference we talking about is for those who can push the Manual car to it's maximum acceleration potential. But on the street, more than 60% of manual drivers won't be able to beat the AT because of those bad shifting. Why would we care about MT is faster if most drivers can't reach that stage? (i'm not only talking about newbie, average manual drivers won't be able to beat the AT, and isn't average drivers we should be looking at rather than those magazines pro drivers' stats?) Then what do we care about? isn't the thread meaningless if you can't stat the facts?

Why would we care about those stats on the magazine so much? we aren't no "BROCHURE RACERS" (or are you?). And why would we care about those little difference if there won't be any difference on most "average" drivers? So stop this MT v.s. AT fight, it has been on this forum forever, don't we have something more interesting to discuss about? <P ID="edit"><FONT class="small"><EM>Edited by neohh on 01/16/04 09:14 PM.</EM></FONT></P>

 

OK this is getting rediculous...
There is no way that anyone who knows how to drive at all will lose in an AT G in 2nd gear vs. a MT G in 3rd gear... Something was going on during that race, and we weren't there to see all of the circumstances...
If we are going to base the performance of each car on a post on the internet, then I have three examples that says that the 5AT is as quick or quicker than an MT off the line or from a rolling start.
I know for a fact that according to tests, when maxing out either of the vehicles, the 5AT is not as quick from 0-60 or in the quarter mile.. But it doesn't matter what the stats say... The bottom line is that if I'm in either car, I'm not going to notice the difference in performance AT ALL...
For those MT drivers who want bragging rights over the AT... TAKE IT TO THE TRACK, and I'll bet money that you won't win every race. Threads like these are getting old with peoples condescending/ underinformed statements etc... Most of the MT drivers have never even driven an AT G to even make a comparison, and likewise for the AT drivers.

In conclusion, the reason why people come to such a rigorous defense of his/her vehicle is because of blasphemous comments that come from the other side... When people fail to speak objectively, then the thread goes down hill. IMO the only people who attack others on an internet-board are people who need to get a life, or they are, in fact, insecure about the choices they have made, thus they seek ways to make others feel inferior. If one does this he himself is the inferior one. So everyone keep beleiving what you are believing, because the only proof is head to head on a track.

2003.5 5AT
<font color=black> Black/Willow Coupe </font color=black>
Premium Package
18" Tire/Wheel Package
K&N Filter, Z-Tube, EGK

 

Well, if you want to take into account both drivers skill level, then you must realize that the driver of the 6 speed has some room for error, simply because his car is quicker than the automatic car.

In other words, if the 6 speed driver spins the tires a little too much off the line, he can still catch up to the automatic car, even if it had a good launch.

I think most people who like to race their cars learn to drive them pretty well, in terms of racing. Personally, I'd have absolutely no fear of losing to an automatic, all else equal. Not even once out of 10 races. But that's just me. Others may feel different.

 

Well Hitman, I would agree that 10 for 10 is not impossible, but easier said than done. A bad launch in a 6MT vs a 5MT would make for, at the very least a very close race through the qarter mile. Just hope that a bad launch doesn't cost you more than 3 tenths of a second if racing in on a quarter mile track. I'd say that's a slim margin for error when you're talking about losing traction in a 280HP vehicle.

I blew a launch in my previous car verses a car against which, on paper, I was .5 seconds faster in a quarter mile. It took the entire quarter mile just to catch up to him.

2003.5 5AT
<font color=black> Black/Willow Coupe </font color=black>
Premium Package
18" Tire/Wheel Package
K&N Filter, Z-Tube, EGK

 

if automatic is so great... then why dont every race car driver race with an automatic car not including F1 racers which use paddle. i just think the response from a manual is quicker than automatic. WITH AN AUTOMATIC You will notice the response when you are on the highway... im going 60... i wanna switch lanes i gas it... the car wont move right away. With manual u can downshift and bam you speed up.

rpm wise - when does automatic shift? when does manual shift.

Say a professional driver takes a manual and takes a few quatermile runs to get the best time possible. With the same driver will he be able to perform that same time or better with an automatic?
Also the automatic and the manual.... both cars need to have same size rims and tires.... SAME WEIGHT... just do anything possible to make the cars identical except the fact one is manual and one is automatic THEN SEE WHICH IS FASTER.

 

Dopeymon, please read and understand posts before responding (another example of an underinformed response).. Did anyone say that the auto was faster under the exact same conditions maxing out the potential of both? NO!

Furthermore my automatic responds whenever I want it to respond. When I want it to shift it shifts at any RPM below the rev limiter. This is not a Lincoln or an SUV. Even still, my SUV shiffts at redline if I floor it. (so what's your point?)

In addition, I am not a professional driver because I don't get paid to do it, but I can drive the hell out of any car and in this particular car, the gap in performance results is not as wide between the auto and manual as in most other cars. Thus, those who think that they will unequivocally beat an AT G under any circumstance, might be taking it too lightly.
If you're going to pick on an automatic simply because it is an automatic, I would suggest that you pick a Honda or Toyota and not the G.




2003.5 5AT
<font color=black> Black/Willow Coupe </font color=black>
Premium Package
18" Tire/Wheel Package
K&N Filter, Z-Tube, EGK

 

Kahboom, please read my post and understand its MY opinion and i wasn't stating a FACT. THE TITLE of this thread is "how much slower is a auto vs. a 6 spd g35." To determine that the variables need to be adjusted for the real answer.

Anyways this thread is 6 pages long i don't have that much time to read through everyones ideas and opinions. All i did was post my 2 cents.

"i just think the response from a manual is quicker than automatic." thats what i said. I JUST THINK. Did i make a statement saying AUTO IS FASTER????? NO! I JUST THINK, which means its my opnion.

I said going on the highway going about 60 the car won't respond right away because its driving at a low RPM while manual you can actually play with it by downshifting.

"With the same driver will he be able to perform that same time or better with an automatic?" NOTICE THE QUESTION MARK KAHBOOM?????????????????????????? Or do i have to emphasize the question marks for you to understand?

"Did anyone say that the auto was faster under the exact same conditions maxing out the potential of both? NO!" - KAHBOOM

you are correct on that kahboom because no one has INCLUDING ME since i didnt even make a statement as which is being faster.

Thanks for your true example of an underinformed response from you kahboom... have a nice day.

 

Dopemon, did I strike a nerve? Let's try to be adults OK? Perhaps what you clearly posted was not what you intended to communicate. I was clear in MY understanding of your post (perhaps not in YOUR understanding of your post)... You were using RHETORICAL questions which imply fact. If you are going to share your "opinion" then I would assume that you lean toward it as being factual. I would suggest you look at your post again, and look at the tone that you used.

As regards your most recent response:
"I said going on the highway going about 60 the car won't respond right away because its driving at a low RPM while manual you can actually play with it by downshifting."

As I implied the first post, that statement is wrong as regards the G and shows one as underinformed about the 5AT in the G.

"you are correct on that kahboom because no one has INCLUDING ME since i didnt even make a statement as which is being faster."
Dopeymon, are you saying that you were just being inquisitive when you said in all CAPS:"THEN SEE WHICH IS FASTER"... C'MON!! [img]/w3timages/icons/laugh.gif[/img] LOL
This being a follow up to your opening statement:
"if automatic is so great".

Are you saying that you were NOT implying that the manual was faster?

As regards wether you need to emphasize the question makrs for me to understand: Do what you will, If it makes you feel better about yourself.

My questions are, in fact, rhetorical and do not require a response for my benefit, as I can anticipate, based on your previous post, what the answer will be. But hey, it's a free country...

2003.5 5AT
<font color=black> Black/Willow Coupe </font color=black>
Premium Package
18" Tire/Wheel Package
K&N Filter, Z-Tube, EGK

 

i'm so sick of this debating. you can argue all you want, fact is as more time passes, the more clutchless shifting (f1 paddle type deals) will come into effect. then what are the MT arrogant owners (i hate to generalize, sorry) going to say about it?

leave this topic alone, it's a fu(c)kin dead topic alread. geezus christ. i like eating fast food while driving, maybe you manual drivers like to think you're masturbating while driving....i dunno, but the point is, WHO THE HELL CARES!?!? are you trying to show off to your boyfriend, or driving your girlfriend around? so dumb...i'm done with this lol.