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hey guys, I bought an 05 G35 a day before Thanksgiving. I'll provide some insight since I have some knowledge regarding this (it was part of my undergrad in the earlier days).Originally Posted by 4drmadness
johnnyparkyourcar has sat in my car with me and he said that he could notice the reduced lag. thats all i can say. kmckis also has the same wires and he noticed the reduced lag too.
With a DC system ( with a battery ), using a thicker gauge ground from the battery would be the same as using 10 additional grounding wires. Further, you are connecting wires from two metal points on the frame ( so that's doing nothing...basically that's going ground to ground). If one ground wire was insufficient, that means the load outweighs the single factory ground wire, and thus a single wire upgrade would be in order; however, 10 is superfluous.
If you were to connect the grounds in parallel ( ie, directly from the ECU, TCU, ballasts ), then you would simply be lowering the resistance of ground and increasing the potential of ground..ie, doing what 1 larger ground would do.
To see the same (perceived ) benefit of decreasing resistance to ground, you could turn off the lights, radio, a/c, etc. You should, at that point, have reduced transmission lag over that of having all features enabled. If you don't, that means the load does is not greater than the ground potential. An engine bay often has several small wires to ground to ensure that current flow isn't inhibited.
As per ohm's law ( and the subsequent current law ), the current flow of a system is exactly the same as its sink ( output flow ). With that said, you can't exceed the system's load, so...you won't improve the speed of current flow if flow isn't already being inhibited.
edit:
Try a series of experiments, check lag with one large grounding wire ( just the one coming from the battery ) and the other 9 grounding wires, and finally again with the factory wire. Use a stop watch and do an average over 10-20 shifts. You should then have your answer.
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You can go to lowes and make your own grounding wires for about 20 bucks. I might try this and do some experiments if you guys are actually interested ( but don't hold your breath )
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It's really just 2 or 4ga welding cable with crimped on copper crimps. You can pick these up at multiple locations
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like 4drmadness said, i compared his car and mine and i can definitely feel the faster shifts. we both have the 5AT, hes got the grounding kit and i dont.
Former G35driver Vendor
All I can tell you is that it changed the shift lag in my car.
If I was a stock 5AT again, the FIRST thing I would do would be a good grounding kit.
If I was a stock 5AT again, the FIRST thing I would do would be a good grounding kit.
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When it comes to this "lag", don't forget this is an automatic. It takes a time to build the line pressure and to execute the shift. The only tranny on the market that can execute a shift in around .1 seconds is the 8AT in the IS-F and that's because it locks the TC in every gear except 1st when in manumatic.
My prior cars were manuals and I raced them on strip. I pretty fast at shifting while racing. When it comes to my G's manumatic function, it shifts faster than I ever could. Yes, there is a slight lag from the time I tap the shifter to the time it shifts, but that time frame is about fast as I could upshift and far faster than I could ever downshift. A lot of people fail to realize that when you're shifting a manual, you have to push in a clutch, move the shifter, modulate the throttle, and release the clutch. They think this whole process can happen nearly instantly, but in reality it take a good driver to execute a speed shift is around .3-.4 seconds and about .6-.8 seconds to execute a clean downshift. The 5AT in the G can do the upshift about as quick and the downshift faster. Yes, the lag feels longer because all you have to do is tap a shifter therefore the time it takes to complete shift feels longer than it really is.
Ways to improve some shift consistency and speed is to hold the shifter up or down when you want to shift. Merely tapping it may make the TCU second guess your intentions and not complete the shift. You can improve shifter response by bending the up/down shifter pins which activate the shifter DIP switches.
My prior cars were manuals and I raced them on strip. I pretty fast at shifting while racing. When it comes to my G's manumatic function, it shifts faster than I ever could. Yes, there is a slight lag from the time I tap the shifter to the time it shifts, but that time frame is about fast as I could upshift and far faster than I could ever downshift. A lot of people fail to realize that when you're shifting a manual, you have to push in a clutch, move the shifter, modulate the throttle, and release the clutch. They think this whole process can happen nearly instantly, but in reality it take a good driver to execute a speed shift is around .3-.4 seconds and about .6-.8 seconds to execute a clean downshift. The 5AT in the G can do the upshift about as quick and the downshift faster. Yes, the lag feels longer because all you have to do is tap a shifter therefore the time it takes to complete shift feels longer than it really is.
Ways to improve some shift consistency and speed is to hold the shifter up or down when you want to shift. Merely tapping it may make the TCU second guess your intentions and not complete the shift. You can improve shifter response by bending the up/down shifter pins which activate the shifter DIP switches.
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Don't get me wrong, they grounding kits may help the 5AT with shifts. I don't know, and I do wish that the car would shift quicker. What I am saying is that if I make a mod to improve the shift speed, it will be really hard to not sense that the shifting is faster. Other than how it 'feels' can anyone suggest a test to measure shift speed.
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Get a stop watch and see how long it takes for the gear to physically change from the time you pushed the shifter. Then do this about twenty times and average the totals. This must be done with no wires and with wires under the same conditions (so maybe a full throttle accelaration run from 0 to 100 or so.
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Quote:
With a DC system ( with a battery ), using a thicker gauge ground from the battery would be the same as using 10 additional grounding wires. Further, you are connecting wires from two metal points on the frame ( so that's doing nothing...basically that's going ground to ground). If one ground wire was insufficient, that means the load outweighs the single factory ground wire, and thus a single wire upgrade would be in order; however, 10 is superfluous.
If you were to connect the grounds in parallel ( ie, directly from the ECU, TCU, ballasts ), then you would simply be lowering the resistance of ground and increasing the potential of ground..ie, doing what 1 larger ground would do.
To see the same (perceived ) benefit of decreasing resistance to ground, you could turn off the lights, radio, a/c, etc. You should, at that point, have reduced transmission lag over that of having all features enabled. If you don't, that means the load does is not greater than the ground potential. An engine bay often has several small wires to ground to ensure that current flow isn't inhibited.
As per ohm's law ( and the subsequent current law ), the current flow of a system is exactly the same as its sink ( output flow ). With that said, you can't exceed the system's load, so...you won't improve the speed of current flow if flow isn't already being inhibited.
edit:
Try a series of experiments, check lag with one large grounding wire ( just the one coming from the battery ) and the other 9 grounding wires, and finally again with the factory wire. Use a stop watch and do an average over 10-20 shifts. You should then have your answer.
I originally read this thread a few days ago and didn't think much of it. Then today at work I really started to realize how little most people understand about DC electricity and wiring. I wanted to write something similar to what you wrote, but after reading yours, I realized I couldn't do it with such good grammar. Bravo! You know what you are talking about.Originally Posted by phrocker
hey guys, I bought an 05 G35 a day before Thanksgiving. I'll provide some insight since I have some knowledge regarding this (it was part of my undergrad in the earlier days).With a DC system ( with a battery ), using a thicker gauge ground from the battery would be the same as using 10 additional grounding wires. Further, you are connecting wires from two metal points on the frame ( so that's doing nothing...basically that's going ground to ground). If one ground wire was insufficient, that means the load outweighs the single factory ground wire, and thus a single wire upgrade would be in order; however, 10 is superfluous.
If you were to connect the grounds in parallel ( ie, directly from the ECU, TCU, ballasts ), then you would simply be lowering the resistance of ground and increasing the potential of ground..ie, doing what 1 larger ground would do.
To see the same (perceived ) benefit of decreasing resistance to ground, you could turn off the lights, radio, a/c, etc. You should, at that point, have reduced transmission lag over that of having all features enabled. If you don't, that means the load does is not greater than the ground potential. An engine bay often has several small wires to ground to ensure that current flow isn't inhibited.
As per ohm's law ( and the subsequent current law ), the current flow of a system is exactly the same as its sink ( output flow ). With that said, you can't exceed the system's load, so...you won't improve the speed of current flow if flow isn't already being inhibited.
edit:
Try a series of experiments, check lag with one large grounding wire ( just the one coming from the battery ) and the other 9 grounding wires, and finally again with the factory wire. Use a stop watch and do an average over 10-20 shifts. You should then have your answer.
If only we couldn't undercut the price of the grounding kit by offering literature explaining why said product doesn't work to those who are considering buying it.
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Quote:
Caveat Originally Posted by 03sedan6speed
If only we couldn't undercut the price of the grounding kit by offering literature explaining why said product doesn't work to those who are considering buying it.
mptor (let the buyer beware)! The buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality or value of a purchase before buying.
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mptor (let the buyer beware)! The buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality or value of a purchase before buying.
Caveat venditor cautions the seller to beware, as well. They can't expect to sell poor products or defraud consumers in perpetuity. Originally Posted by Braintree
Caveat mptor (let the buyer beware)! The buyer alone is responsible for assessing the quality or value of a purchase before buying.
As an example:
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?i...=&make=&model=
Stillen's use of the word 'will' means they've done testing and can back their claims of improved performance and shifting. Ignoring the fact that their claims imply poor design by the car manufacturer, if they are so sure their product will improve performance, then they should provide evidence. Of course, I am no lawyer...so I'm probably full of crap.
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Quote:
As an example:
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?i...=&make=&model=
Stillen's use of the word 'will' means they've done testing and can back their claims of improved performance and shifting. Ignoring the fact that their claims imply poor design by the car manufacturer, if they are so sure their product will improve performance, then they should provide evidence. Of course, I am no lawyer...so I'm probably full of crap.
Originally Posted by phrocker
Caveat venditor cautions the seller to beware, as well. They can't expect to sell poor products or defraud consumers in perpetuity. As an example:
http://www.stillen.com/product.asp?i...=&make=&model=
Stillen's use of the word 'will' means they've done testing and can back their claims of improved performance and shifting. Ignoring the fact that their claims imply poor design by the car manufacturer, if they are so sure their product will improve performance, then they should provide evidence. Of course, I am no lawyer...so I'm probably full of crap.
But many sellers do sell and defraud to "perpetuity" with "unbiased and objective" claims based on carefully controlled, "double blind studies", or until caught-- thus malpractice suits, suits against drug companies, tire manufacturers, car makers (remember the Ford Pinto), restaurants (remember the suits against Chi Chi's), etc., etc.
Sorry about hijacking the thread, but I think this is an important addition to the discussion.
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Quote:
With a DC system ( with a battery ), using a thicker gauge ground from the battery would be the same as using 10 additional grounding wires. Further, you are connecting wires from two metal points on the frame ( so that's doing nothing...basically that's going ground to ground). If one ground wire was insufficient, that means the load outweighs the single factory ground wire, and thus a single wire upgrade would be in order; however, 10 is superfluous.
If you were to connect the grounds in parallel ( ie, directly from the ECU, TCU, ballasts ), then you would simply be lowering the resistance of ground and increasing the potential of ground..ie, doing what 1 larger ground would do.
To see the same (perceived ) benefit of decreasing resistance to ground, you could turn off the lights, radio, a/c, etc. You should, at that point, have reduced transmission lag over that of having all features enabled. If you don't, that means the load does is not greater than the ground potential. An engine bay often has several small wires to ground to ensure that current flow isn't inhibited.
As per ohm's law ( and the subsequent current law ), the current flow of a system is exactly the same as its sink ( output flow ). With that said, you can't exceed the system's load, so...you won't improve the speed of current flow if flow isn't already being inhibited.
edit:
Try a series of experiments, check lag with one large grounding wire ( just the one coming from the battery ) and the other 9 grounding wires, and finally again with the factory wire. Use a stop watch and do an average over 10-20 shifts. You should then have your answer.
So instead of doing an entire grounding kit... I should look for the absolute biggest gauge wire I can find to ground the battery to the chassis? Then I will get the percieved 'benifit' of the grounding kit?Originally Posted by phrocker
hey guys, I bought an 05 G35 a day before Thanksgiving. I'll provide some insight since I have some knowledge regarding this (it was part of my undergrad in the earlier days).With a DC system ( with a battery ), using a thicker gauge ground from the battery would be the same as using 10 additional grounding wires. Further, you are connecting wires from two metal points on the frame ( so that's doing nothing...basically that's going ground to ground). If one ground wire was insufficient, that means the load outweighs the single factory ground wire, and thus a single wire upgrade would be in order; however, 10 is superfluous.
If you were to connect the grounds in parallel ( ie, directly from the ECU, TCU, ballasts ), then you would simply be lowering the resistance of ground and increasing the potential of ground..ie, doing what 1 larger ground would do.
To see the same (perceived ) benefit of decreasing resistance to ground, you could turn off the lights, radio, a/c, etc. You should, at that point, have reduced transmission lag over that of having all features enabled. If you don't, that means the load does is not greater than the ground potential. An engine bay often has several small wires to ground to ensure that current flow isn't inhibited.
As per ohm's law ( and the subsequent current law ), the current flow of a system is exactly the same as its sink ( output flow ). With that said, you can't exceed the system's load, so...you won't improve the speed of current flow if flow isn't already being inhibited.
edit:
Try a series of experiments, check lag with one large grounding wire ( just the one coming from the battery ) and the other 9 grounding wires, and finally again with the factory wire. Use a stop watch and do an average over 10-20 shifts. You should then have your answer.